csxns The MDC now RTR Athearn ABOX combo door boxcar looks wide when next to Exact Rail's same type of boxcar.
The MDC now RTR Athearn ABOX combo door boxcar looks wide when next to Exact Rail's same type of boxcar.
Russell,That's because Athearn BB and Roundhouse cars are a foot to wide by actual measurement.
Larry
Conductor.
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mbinsewi OK, I had to search for the kit. https://ppw-aline.com/collections/bulls-eye-drill-tap-jigs Mike.
OK, I had to search for the kit.
https://ppw-aline.com/collections/bulls-eye-drill-tap-jigs
Mike.
Yes, just use brass screws only.
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IDRick I'm looking to add some 50 ft boxcars to my fleet. Athearn BB quality is fine with me at this stage of the game. How do the MDC/Roundhouse boxcars compare to Athearn BB? Grandkids will be playing with trains so don't need the best.
I'm looking to add some 50 ft boxcars to my fleet. Athearn BB quality is fine with me at this stage of the game. How do the MDC/Roundhouse boxcars compare to Athearn BB? Grandkids will be playing with trains so don't need the best.
Since the grandkids will have their hands in the stew, go for the least cost cars and learn how (and teach the G Ks how) to make minor repaires at couplers and trucks. Have in stock an assortment in size and length of brass screws with matching taps and drills. Alot of good advice from the guys on repaires in the upper posts.
That drilling jig for Athearn coupler box lids is good, but you can eye the post up to be drilled dead center. I have hand drilled them by sight for years, but I did buy the drill jig and used it once or twice just to see how it worked.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL....The Athearn coupler clips - simply bend the existing bends until the side taps are truely 90 Degrees, without curving the bottom of the cover, then they work fine.
I agree, Sheldon, and preferred them to the screw-on covers (mostly because of the giant screw heads). Nowadays, I use flathead screws for most coupler covers, especially on Tichy and Accurail cars, as the press-on pin-type covers are otherwise single-use.A few rotations with a hand-held larger drill bit will do a pretty-decent countersink, making the screwhead very much less noticeable...
Barely visible, at left, but it works for MDC cars, too...
...and Train Miniature...
...or Train Miniature (and others) with Kadees in Kadee draught gear boxes...
I had a couple of Athearn metal cars (sold some time ago) but still have this Varney metal boxcar from my first HO trains, back in the mid-'50s Mine had Kadee K-type couplers (manual remote uncoupling), but also had the three basic components of AB-type brakes.The car was originally painted in NYC Pacemaker colours, but I overpainted it (with brush-applied Floquil) to change it into a CPR car, with the short-lived "script" lettering.Later, I decided to upgrade it a bit more (and also back-date it to the late '30s-era of my layout). This involved disassembling the car, then re-building it so that the parts fit was tighter than the original. I also opted to move the free-standing grabirons to more prototypical locations, and improved a bit on the underbody detail....
dknelson....The Athearn painted metal (tin? steel?) was easily bent if you were not careful, but it had a bonus: you could actually model "damage" such as creases and dents caused by forklifts loading or unloading the cars!....
The Varney metal cars were similar in that respect, as can be seen on the updated car...
dknelson....Due to the use of metal and since all trucks at the time were metal both kinds still had that risk of passing along a short circuit via the couplers....
Yeah, that often played havoc with Kadee knuckle springs.
As for the cast metal floors, one of the easiest ways to add detail, such as brake gear, is to use a full-size (not the little ones we use for modelling) drill bit to put holes in the floor at suitable locations, then plug the holes using styrene rod a few thou greater in diameter than the drilled hole: apply some solvent-type cement to the plug, let it soften the plastic a bit, then jam it into the hole. Once the plastic re-hardens, trim off the excess and use suitably-sized modelling bits in your pin vise to drill the plugs to accept the new details...
With a new styrene centresill and some modelled brake gear...
....along with a new roof...
...and ends...
...and a few other details...
...this MDC 36' boxcar made into a pretty-decent model of a Southern Su-class boxcar...
While I made only one, the Southern owned about 15,000 of them.
Wayne
I have some Athearn ACF boxcars with Mexican names on them got them back in the Bev-bel Rail runner days they i will keep.
Russell
dknelson I believe Athearn and Model Die Casting/Roundhouse were "friendly competitors" and indeed I have some recollection that Athearn either did some of the tool and die and casting work or some of the painting and lettering, or perhaps all of it, for MDC. To some extent they avoided having directly identical items in their respective lines. Hard to avoid both having 40' boxcars and gondolas since everybody had those but there were some differences between them. And each had items the other lacked. ........... There was another custom paint job outfit that used Athearn as raw material - was it K Line? I'll have to go to the shelves and see if I have an old box or two to check. Their paint was also very glossy. Dave Nelson
I believe Athearn and Model Die Casting/Roundhouse were "friendly competitors" and indeed I have some recollection that Athearn either did some of the tool and die and casting work or some of the painting and lettering, or perhaps all of it, for MDC. To some extent they avoided having directly identical items in their respective lines. Hard to avoid both having 40' boxcars and gondolas since everybody had those but there were some differences between them. And each had items the other lacked.
...........
There was another custom paint job outfit that used Athearn as raw material - was it K Line? I'll have to go to the shelves and see if I have an old box or two to check. Their paint was also very glossy.
Dave Nelson
Yes, Athearn and MDC did work for each other in both directions, and their 1960's/1970's product lines really displayed their attempts to not compete directly with each other.
That other company was Kar-Line, Athearn cars, custom decaled - not silk screened or pad printed, gloss paint waiting for you to dull coat or weather to your liking, Central Valley sprung metal trucks, and Kadee couplers - at prices that reflected all these value added features.......
I consider both MDC and Athearn pretty much equal, I have fair amount of both. And I have a fair amount of Athearn, MDC and Varney from the pre plastic days.
And like Kar-Line, most of my rollng stock rides on sprung metal trucks......
I do consider the Athearn and Varney "tin" cars to be very good looking models even today.
The Athearn coupler clips - simply bend the existing bends until the side taps are truely 90 Degrees, without curving the bottom of the cover, then they work fine.
Sheldon
As has already been said, they are mainly the same. Not all boxcars are the same, there are many varieties, and MDC and Athearn had a gentlemen's agreement to not duplicate models. So Atheran and MDC offered different box cars.
I like MDC a little better. The screw-in coupler box cover, and I thought the details and paint were slightly better.
- Douglas
mbinsewiI do agree Larry, but there were sometimes that clip gets out of shape, and doesn't always stay on. Just sayin. Mike.
Mike,Very true..I had a 50' gon coupler clip that refuse to play well. A good 2-56 took care of that problem. I have also simply replace the bent clip with a new one.
BRAKIEThe clips worked quite well if they snap into place and a very light squeeze on the side of the clip would hold it firmaly in place.
I do agree Larry, but there were sometimes that clip gets out of shape, and doesn't always stay on. Just sayin.
mbinsewi riogrande5761 I have always preferred MDC's coupler boxes fastened with a screw vs. the Athearn metal clip. Thats what I liked about them, also. Those clips weren't always reliable. Mike.
riogrande5761 I have always preferred MDC's coupler boxes fastened with a screw vs. the Athearn metal clip.
Thats what I liked about them, also. Those clips weren't always reliable.
Guys,The clips worked quite well if they snap into place and a very light squeeze on the side of the clip would hold it firmaly in place.
Just a quick addition that while most of Bev-Bel's were Athearn, they did other brands too. I recently completed a Robins Rails kit that was Bev-Bel'ed and I've got a Life-Like caboose that was also given the Bev-Bel treatment.
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The two different approaches they took to underframes (at least on house cars) had positive and negative elements. The cast white metal floor for Model Die Casting provided a good low center of gravity and stability to the car. You had to clean it up before assembly and if you were a bit fussy, paint it (also the edges because they showed and painted both sides because if a boxcar doors was opened you had a flat and smooth metal surface that was not very realistic). If you wanted a really accurate brake system you had some laborious grinding and filing to do.
And some of the old metal trucks had just one wheel on an axle insulated rather than both, so sometimes the combination of metal frame plus metal couplers could transmit weird electric shorts through lengths of cars or from locomotives which were also metal frame and metal coupler. It was rare but it happened.
With Athearn the frame/weight/floor sandwich made it a bit easier to make changes and improvements, such as adding the piping and rodding to the AB brake system. But you had the irritation that Athearn's tool and die person misread some drawings (drawn as if from above, but they assumed it was a bottom up view) and the entire brake system was mirror image. And the steel weights that Athearn used tended to rust either before or after assembly - and being steel, were attracted to uncoupling magnets (the white metal frame/floor on MDC is non magnetic). The coupler was in a plastic pocket so there were no strange shorts to try to track down.
Athearn and MDC/Roundhouse also took different approaches to kits in the pre-plastic era. The old Athearn metal kits had stamped tin sides, ends, doors, and roofs that had a sort of tab in slot construction. They built up into nice looking cars and were nicely painted and lettered. The floor was wood and the sill, frame components and bolsters were all separate pieces of metal. Actually quite realistic. Installation of the AB brake parts was left to the builder. The doors were scale thickness but could be opened and closed with very slender and subtle door guides. Running boards were cast metal but fairly thin, indeed perhaps scale thickness. In certain ways the plastic car kits did seem like a step backwards in authenticity.
By contrast the Model Die Casting metal kits used white metal castings for the floor, ends, and roof. The sides were separate castings for each side of the doors. The castings were somewhat thick. I recall there were screws involved in the final assembly It was a bit of a trick to get everything lined up. And the side castings were brittle, and prone to zinc rot. When the car was assembled it was rock solid and very heavy.
In both cases the painted metal looked remarkably like .... well ... painted metal. The Athearn painted metal (tin? steel?) was easily bent if you were not careful, but it had a bonus: you could actually model "damage" such as creases and dents caused by forklifts loading or unloading the cars!
Yet another way in which the later plastic kits seemed like a step backwards in authenticity.
Due to the use of metal and since all trucks at the time were metal both kinds still had that risk of passing along a short circuit via the couplers.
As regards ConCor, I remember when the ConCor name was placed on Athearn blue box kits and ConCor's involvement was special paint schemes. Later they had their own plastic kits (but earlier had offered craftsman kits of wood and metal). Bev Bel did the same: Athearn bodies but special paint schemes (very glossy paint as I recall), but they also included some other improvements such as Kadee couplers and perhaps better trucks? There was another custom paint job outfit that used Athearn as raw material - was it K Line? I'll have to go to the shelves and see if I have an old box or two to check. Their paint was also very glossy.
LenS Bev-Bel and Con-Cor are also in the same genre. Reliable, but not pricey. Len S
Bev-Bel and Con-Cor are also in the same genre. Reliable, but not pricey.
Len S
Most Bev-bel I've seen were blue box Athearn cars painted by BB; so basically falls into the Athearn category.
While Concor are similar, some of their kits didn't seem to be engineered as well as Athearn & MDC IMO.
Medina1128 I found a kit that comes with drill bits and a tap so you can replace the metal clip with a plastic cover.
I found a kit that comes with drill bits and a tap so you can replace the metal clip with a plastic cover.
That's one solution if the clip fails
EilifOne thing I will say is to be aware that some of the older Roundhouse kits have metal frames. They can be a bit annoying in terms of the ammount of flash to cut away and can never be totally removed without maring detail. The metal frames are not always a perfect fit for the providedscrews so be aware that you may need to tap the holes, drill them out or trim the screws.
The only metal framed MDC cars I have are the ballast cars, and the ones I bought had tons of flash and I had to do quite a bit of filing on the - they were particularly bad. Once I got them cleaned up and painted black, to match the cars, they went in pretty good and looked fine in the end. Since the metal was inside the end cages and painted black, any marring from file and clean-up is nearly impossible to see.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 MDC and Athearn are in the same ball park. I have always preferred MDC's coupler boxes fastened with a screw vs. the Athearn metal clip.
MDC and Athearn are in the same ball park. I have always preferred MDC's coupler boxes fastened with a screw vs. the Athearn metal clip.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I've built a number of each and I slightly prefer the paint on AtheranBB's. However I like them both.
One thing I will say is to be aware that some of the older Roundhouse kits have metal frames. They can be a bit annoying in terms of the ammount of flash to cut away and can never be totally removed without maring detail. The metal frames are not always a perfect fit for the providedscrews so be aware that you may need to tap the holes, drill them out or trim the screws.
Still, I'd still buy a roundhouse metal frame kit if it was a scheme I wanted. I also am very happy with the plastic frame Roundhouse kits I've purchased. They do lean toward older prototypes so I don't buy as many, but I recently discovered a trove of their 50' DD HiCubes at my local shop and I'm liking them. Another advantage (IMHO) to the 50's (and perhaps some others?) is that the stirrups are molded to the frame and quite sturdy.
Really, I buy shake the box kits across brands if they're ones I like. Lastly, I'm particularly fond of the paint on Bev-Bel and other aftermarket examples of BB/MDC/ETC kits even if they're not quite prototype.
I've likely built 400-500 Athearn BB over the years, and can't say enough about them. The prices were outstanding, the quality was excellent, and the details were sufficient. However, with some KDs, metal wheelsets, mild truck weathering, and a Dull Cote spray, they looked pretty darn good. Even without the new wheelsets, they have all been outstanding and reliable runners.
In the same vein, I've built about 50-70 MDC kits. They offered variations not available from Athearn, and fit nicely on my '50s era layouts. Their quality is good, and with the KDs, wheels, Dull Cote they look just fine. However, I have had some trouble with their "out of the box" running, and often a bit of tuning was necessary. It isn't a big deal, and problems should be easily handled.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
doctorwayneOther offerings came from Train Miniature (now part of Walthers - very similar kit construction), and some more recent ones, also comparable, might include Bachmann and Accurail, although I believe that Bachmann is r-t-r.
Yes, true. That was probably the biggest design flaw vs MDC.
OTOH, MDC's tiny screws often didn't stay tight. I've run some of mine built with the stock parts on a modular layout and a truck came off. They were a bit to small and short to work reliably on their own; it would require a drop of adhesive to lock them in place, but then if you needed to work on them you'd have to break the bond.
So Athearns Achilles heal was the coupler box clip and MDC's was their too small screw used to secure the trucks.
Both come out low on the Kadee height gauge if you install Kadee #5's in them. Even with the thickest fiber washer, they were still a bit low I found, consistantly.
Harrison I have dropped a few Athearn BB on the concrete floor, nothing broken.
I have dropped a few Athearn BB on the concrete floor, nothing broken.
I could imagine an Athearn bb hitting without broken something broken but surely it sustained some damage being plastic is so much softer than concrete.
I'd imagine that MDC and Athearn would both behave similarly in a fall to concrete event.
riogrande5761I have always preferred MDC's coupler boxes fastened with a screw vs. the Athearn metal clip.
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
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I think that Athearn and MDC (Roundhouse) were generally pretty similar, although MDC offered some older style (truss rod) cars that Athearn didn't. Both eventually released more modern equipment, too, like the frameless tankcars and the 50' ipd boxcars.
A lot of this stuff shows up at train shows at very reasonable prices.
Other offerings came from Train Miniature (now part of Walthers - very similar kit construction), and some more recent ones, also comparable, might include Bachmann and Accurail, although I believe that Bachmann is r-t-r.
All of these manufacturers' cars are quite suitable as-is, especially for use by children, but all also make good starting points if you like to detail or otherwise modify your rolling stock.
They call them Kit Classics.
https://www.scaletrains.com/collections/ho-evans-usre-5100-rbl-8-double-plug-door-boxcar
I see a lot of them are sold out, but there are some nice ones left. Can't argue about the price!
Mike
Thanks, Mike and Little Timmy, very helpful! I had not heard of Scale Trains, will look into their product line.
IDRickHow do the MDC/Roundhouse boxcars compare to Athearn BB?
As Little Timmy says, they are close to the same. There was something about the Roundhouse cars that did seem nicer, not sure what it was.
Both have cast on details such as ladders, grabs, etc. Nothing tinny or fragile to break off.
There was the body shell, the frame, the weight, the trucks, the couplers, and the break wheel.
Scale Trains now has a kit, very much like Athearn and Roundhouse, check them out as well.
I have built both Athern, and MDC kit's throughout the year's. They both assemble about the same, and are pretty durable, as far as kid's are concerned.
But, for some reason, I like the Roundhouse/ MDC kit's better. There's really no difference in Quality ( there both good ) but, I think the MDC kit's just have that "something special" about them.
Rust...... It's a good thing !