Mike, your comments as well as others I believe are spot on, I had not use them for years so I also thought of just plastic fatigue. I tried to use the correct oil and gear lube, I was just so surprised when the parts just crumbled while removing the shell.
I believe that Kato makes a reliable product and have always been pleased with the running of their engines. I do know that when I compared the good working Kato power units the parts on the top to hold the trucks in place were missing, that is a fact. The truck would slip out of place thus the engine would not track well causing a derailment and that really became frustrating after while.
The two power units that I now use with the Southern shells work great, smooth as glass, I have stored the other units that did not work well in a box. So, nothing really lost and over time I will add two more Southern units with sound.
Thanks to all for listening.
Robert Sylvester,
Newberry-Columbia, SC
Kato's rep for quality is well-deserved. I suspect those who suspect some fiddling around with those locos post-factory are onto something. 20 years later, who knows? And even the best manufacturer has an item that somehow made it through quality control to a consumer that should have been pulled aside. Kato certainly wants to make things right.
So I'll take a different tack, because modelers are often stashing away stuff for some indefinite future need or in the belief that an item will appreciate and they don't want to "break the seal" and make it non-new.
That's all well and fine, but trying to place blame years after the sale? Unless one has the rare item that has a lifetime guarantee, it's the purchaser's responsibility to verify that the item is in good running order within the time bounds of the vendor's return policy. Especially so with those mfg's who have a good rep for quality. They want you to be a satisfied customer.
So stash stuff away, but do it wisely and with the understanding there's some risk involved if you leave something sitting that should have been dealt with long ago.
In this case, maybe it was just frustration. But that sort of thing should be seen as a signal to get to the bottom of your unhappiness. The delay isn't Kato's fault. The problem may not have even been the vendor's fault. But claims need to be made in a timely manner, rather than faulting the mfg for a situation beyond their control.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
gmpullmanOr did someone lube them with an incompatible grease or oil?
I'll stake My 67 yrs. in the hobby on this assessment.........It's happened to Me before and I was the one that caused it. It wasn't on a high dollar engine though. It was the oil I used.
Take Care!
Frank
robert sylvester Yes I did, I couldn't remember the name, great store, when I visited, several times they were great, and had a beautiful N scale layout that ran into the store then around to the back.
.
Aardvark's was one of the best.
My trips through Tennessee always included a stop at Aardvark's in Nashville and Chattanooga Depot in Chattanooga.
Unfortunately, both of these stores are gone now. I think they both lasted right to their owner's retirement, which is good.
I have a feeling the same thing will happen to Riverdale Station in Atlanta. Another great shop.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
riogrande5761So maybe it was an issue with brittle plastic.
Or did someone lube them with an incompatible grease or oil?
Some of my early Stewart, Athearn and Life-Like locos are going on thirty-years old and I don't see any evidence of plastic degradation.
Trying to filter out all the other B&O-Southern, etc. details what I'm coming away with is that the worm covers [#47/22] are missing from the trucks?
Bowser_Kato-F by Edmund, on Flickr
I can not imagine how these engines ever ran as the worm would not seat or mesh with the truck gears. The trucks would simply hang from the pickup wires when you lift the engine from the rails.
Worm Cover #22
http://www.bowserorders.com/.sc/ms/dd/ee/13865219/Bowser%20Worm%20Cover
$1.38 each.
robert sylvester the casing that covers the gearing of the wheel sets just shattered and broke into several pieces on both the A and B units.
SO the parts WERE there and shattered?
robert sylvesterexamined them closely and noted that the two unit that kept derailing were missing parts on top of the trucks that would hold them in place
OR were the parts entirely NOT there at all?
robert sylvesterI now have two nice running Southern F units but two powered units in boxes that can't be repaired, bad manufacturing in my opinion on Kato's part.
Your title seems to indicate the CHASSIS falls apart. That would be the entire die-cast frame. Has that actually fallen apart? This may suggest "Zinc-pest" which was mentioned above.
I have contacted Lee English at Bowser and he has often provided me with replacement parts that otherwise were not available. Perhaps send him an email?
Good Luck, Ed
riogrande5761That's assuming you are lucky enough to have an LHS that carries more than a small amount of toy train stuff.
Well, the OP said he bought them at a hobby shop he had visited. He could have checked it then.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
I read this not as zinc pest but broken and missing drive train plastic parts. Is the Stewart drive proprietary or is it the same as athearn or atlas drive trucks of that time period?
I don't see any Stewart engines "for parts" on Ebay or the needed parts at Bowser-trains, which inherited Stewart.
edit an unpowered chassis and powered trucks sold in January and November for around $20
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Tinplate Toddler Lesson to learn: When you buy at an LHS, have the product unpacked and test-run by the staff, with you being present!
Lesson to learn:
When you buy at an LHS, have the product unpacked and test-run by the staff, with you being present!
That's assuming you are lucky enough to have an LHS that carries more than a small amount of toy train stuff. Most of us anymore don't have a decent LHS within a hours drive anylonger.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
If I'm reading the OP correctly, it sounds like the retainer piece that holds the trucks in place was completely missing without any trace of having been there?
I think somebody after Kato worked on those engines, and didn't put them back together correctly, and then traded them in or otherwise returned them to the dealer's stock. Many of the F units were made closer to 28 years ago, so if purchased 20 years ago, the models were likely more "new old stock" at time of purchase, than "new" (you would have to look at item numbers to be sure; there are websites out there that tell when they were imported). The plastic they used is high quality delrin, and would not have merely disintegrated without trace such that some parts are completely missing while others are still there.
They came into the U.S. unshrinkwrapped. Anybody could have done anything to them and returned them to stock as "new". I know this because I unloaded the factory sealed cases of Stewart/Kato engines from the trucks personally on behalf of Toy Train Heaven/English's Model RR Supply. The cases themselves were sealed with special clear tape that said "Kato" on the tape. Once we did get a shipment where somebody took one each of every ATSF unit out of some boxes, to make their own ABBA set, and then resealed cases with clear tape. It was somebody that would have known which item numbers they were, because only item numbers were on the cases, not the roadnames.
On Ebay, some sellers clearly do shrink wrap sets of A and B units that never arrived in the U.S. that way. It was later on that Stewart sold the A/B sets shrinkwrapped--and (most of) those actually have a different motor and a non-Kato mechanism. They are definitely not the same animal as the original Kato mechanisms and one can tell when viewing from underneath.
That piece that OP says disintegrated that covers the gearing of the wheelsets should have said "Kato Japan" on it. If it didn't then you are looking at a later Stewart production engine.
Crumbling plastic sounds as though the gear towers were lubricated with an oil that wasn't compatible with plastic. The cracking and fragmentation are exactly what you would expect in that case.
robert sylvesterI believe it was Kato's misfortune.
I still doubt that! Kato produces exclusively in Japan and has an excellent quality control in place. No product laeves the plant without being inspected and tested!
Yes I did, I couldn't remember the name, great store, when I visited, several times they were great, and had a beautiful N scale layout that ran into the store then around to the back.
I had purchased other products there and they were all fine, I believe it was Kato's misfortune.
Robert Sylvester
Yea, right. Whatever happened, it sounds like it was a while ago. I still would be trying to get parts and ressurrect the other loco.
Mike.
My You Tube
The OP did say the chassis cracked and fell apart in the title but later says
casing that covers the gearing of the wheel sets just shattered and broke into several pieces on both the A and B units. I was totally surprised and wondered what happened. I did not force anything and I have removed shells before without any problems but these just fell apart in my hands. I then removed the shells from two other F units without a problem and examined them closely and noted that the two unit that kept derailing were missing parts on top of the trucks that would hold them in place snug to the chassis and these trucks would keep slipping down out of place and cause malalignment. No wonder the units would derail. In my opinion this is the fault of Kato. Whomever was putting them together 20 years ago failed to apply all of the parts thus causing truck failure. I also figured that the trucks broke apart due to plastic fatigue maybe, I mean the plastic was very brittle.
So maybe it was an issue with brittle plastic.
I thought of that too, but any Kato I have, the truck assembly/gear tower is all plastice. I dunno !
Unless he actually means the frame itself.
Sounds kind of like zinc pest?
If you bought these, brand new, in the box, never been taken out, and in complete original packaging, I guess I would have to say it slipped through the manufacturing/inspection process, born to fail, kind of like the "made on a Friday" syndrome.
If these were package any other way except in complete original packaging and wrapping, I would say somebody robbed some parts, perhaps drop the loco while doing so, and put it back together, the best they could, and hoped nobody would notice. Like what Ulrich said.
I don't know what else to say. Only you know how they were packaged.
Way too late to even say "I wish I would've tried them right away"
So now you have a good set, and I would see if the other can't be restored to good shape again with new parts.
Good luck!
Did you buy these from Aardvark's on Gallatin Road in Nashville?
I miss that shop. Ron and Jean were good people.
Anyway... surprised to hear about a problem with Kato, I have over a dozen, and they are my best runners.
It is more likely that someone sold you a "kaput" engine, crudely put together after a repair attempt had failed.
Kato is known for their quality.
Some twenty years ago while visiting a hobby shop in Nashville, TN., I purchased and A and B F units made by Kato. I was so proud to be able to afford these two engines in Southern livery, made by a company that has such a good reputation. Kato is noted for its smooth mechanisms and beautiful running. They cost a little more but are well worth it, at least that is what I thought.
When I got home and placed them on the layout as soon as they rounded the first curve or passed through a turnout they would derail. So, with my trusty NMRA guage I check out the wheels, they were engage, nothing seem to be in the way, good clearance was noted and on strasight track the mechanism was very smooth and quiet. I tried several times to run these engines over time but the same thing would happen and Nashville was a long way just to take them back so I just placed them on a shelf and for years never ran them. Recently on my new layout I thought I would try them again. I run Southern units, which these are, as well as other East Coast roads. I placed them on the track and as soon as they rounded the first curve the wheels rode up over the tracks and derailed, the same thing. Now my other Kato's, Athearns, Atlas, Intermountains do fine, not a problem. So, this time I thought I would investigate these engines a little more closely.
I decided to remove the shells and in doing so the casing that covers the gearing of the wheel sets just shattered and broke into several pieces on both the A and B units. I was totally surprised and wondered what happened. I did not force anything and I have removed shells before without any problems but these just fell apart in my hands. I then removed the shells from two other F units without a problem and examined them closely and noted that the two unit that kept derailing were missing parts on top of the trucks that would hold them in place snug to the chassis and these trucks would keep slipping down out of place and cause malalignment. No wonder the units would derail. In my opinion this is the fault of Kato. Whomever was putting them together 20 years ago failed to apply all of the parts thus causing truck failure. I also figured that the trucks broke apart due to plastic fatigue maybe, I mean the plastic was very brittle.
I removed the shells from two Kato B+O units, placed the Southern shells on the on the powered mechanisms and guess what, they worked great. In fact I let the trains run for almost an hour and not one moment of a derail. And the shells could be removed without incident.
The only thing I can come up with is poor manufacturing, poor quality control at the time, and bad plastic. When I examed the two other power units that worked I could see where the parts that hold the trucks in place were in there and missing on the bad trucks, and that is why the trucks failed.
I now have two nice running Southern F units but two powered units in boxes that can't be repaired, bad manufacturing in my opinion on Kato's part.