The past few days I have had the chance to put these tips to the test and the results have definitely been better than my first attempts. The decal film is still somewhat visible but not nearly as obvious as it had been. I'm using MicroSol and MicroSet and I'm wondering if additional applications of MicroSol will make the film even less visible. I plan to spray the decals with flat finish as the last step but I think I'm going to do a couple more applications of MicroSol first.
While the white is probably the most useful colour for railroad stuff, especially freight cars, that gold leaf which you used for the firetruck is outstanding - as good or better than any commercially-made gold decals that I've used.
I've had three sets of custom dry transfers made in white (50 sheets each, and material on each sheet for at least two cars) and one set of white custom decals, also good for at least two cars/sheet. Before that, and in some cases, still nowadays, an untold amount of alphabet/numeral sets, both as decals and dry transfers, supplied mainly by Champ, C-D-S, and Letraset. While mostly white or black, there was a lot of yellow, gold, and Dulux gold, too.
I also learned the hard way (GRAND VALLEY / ELORA GORGE & EASTERN) that most alphabet sets contain a limited number of "G"s, "V"s, and "Y"s, and not much at all in the way of ampersands. By the time I created the GRAND RIVER & NORTHERN LAKE ERIE, I had the good sense to use only the road's reporting marks, GR&NLE, on the line's only caboose and the used-by-the-locals-version ERIE NORTHSHORE on locomotives. I also wisely decided that the road was owned by the EG&E, and used their freight cars, as they have none of their own. Too soon ve get old, too late ve get schmart!
Wayne
doctorwayne RR_Mel Great decals Wayne!!! RR_Mel I forgot about my fire truck. The Alps also prints in Metallic Silver and Gold Leaf. Thanks for your kind words, Mel, but that lettering on your fire truck is outstanding! Has anybody developed a newer version of the Alps printer? It seems to me that it's still a very useful tool, albeit in perhaps a fairly narrow market. Wayne
RR_Mel Great decals Wayne!!!
RR_Mel I forgot about my fire truck. The Alps also prints in Metallic Silver and Gold Leaf.
Thanks for your kind words, Mel, but that lettering on your fire truck is outstanding! Has anybody developed a newer version of the Alps printer? It seems to me that it's still a very useful tool, albeit in perhaps a fairly narrow market.
RR_MelGreat decals Wayne!!!
RR_MelI forgot about my fire truck. The Alps also prints in Metallic Silver and Gold Leaf.
I have read the ALPS printer, which prints white, is no longer available. Just looked on line and they can be found on ebay for around $1,000.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
John-NYBW If I understand what I'm being told, I should spray a gloss coat on the surface to be decaled before applying the decal. If this produces a less visible decal film, should I then put a coat of dull coat over both the decal and the surface after the decal has had time to set? My first effort has been on a black steam loco tender and I would like that not to be real shiny when I am done.
If I understand what I'm being told, I should spray a gloss coat on the surface to be decaled before applying the decal. If this produces a less visible decal film, should I then put a coat of dull coat over both the decal and the surface after the decal has had time to set? My first effort has been on a black steam loco tender and I would like that not to be real shiny when I am done.
kasskaboose Does the type of paper matter? If not, can someone please walk those interested in in the process of making decals? This can help resolve any potential areas of confusion.
Does the type of paper matter? If not, can someone please walk those interested in in the process of making decals? This can help resolve any potential areas of confusion.
Indeed the type of paper matters. It has to match the type of printer that you will be using. Use paper made for laser printers in a laser printer. Use paper for ink jet in an ink jet printer. It is best to use a laser printer because the ink fuses into the paper and becomes part of it while an ink jet printer just sprays the ink onto the surface. If you use an ink jet printer you will have to seal the paper with a clear coat of hairspray or other sealer or the ink will rinse off when it gets wet. Also the paper comes in either clear or white. Both types are available for both type printers. Since the vast majority of printers for home or office use do not include white ink then if you want to have any white in your decal then you have to use the white paper. When the printer gets to that part of the image it simply leaves it blank. White paper is best for signs, graffiti or other picture type images. Clear paper is better for text (letters or numbers). You can't print white letters unless you have white ink. And you have the glare problem of the paper being shiny as mentioned above. I hope this helps.
John-NYBW....If I understand what I'm being told, I should spray a gloss coat on the surface to be decaled before applying the decal. If this produces a less visible decal film, should I then put a coat of dull coat over both the decal and the surface after the decal has had time to set? My first effort has been on a black steam loco tender and I would like that not to be real shiny when I am done.
John, the purpose of either painting the model with glossy paint or adding a coat of clear gloss over matte paint is twofold:
First, a matte finish is, under magnification, rough, and that roughness contributes to "silvering", which is air, trapped by the decal film, in the low spots of the rough surface. The application of clear gloss gives a smoother surface with less chance of trapped air. Secondly, it also allows easier movement of the just-applied decal, so you can slide it right to where you want it. Once the decal work is done, you'll see that the decals are still very noticeable as decals, especially when viewed obliquely. If you apply a clear flat finish over them, the decals will often (not always) still appear very noticeable as such, since the surface of the bare decal was of a different gloss than that of the glossy surface to which it was applied. That's why I found that a second application of gloss, over the applied decals was preferable: it makes the entire finish of the car uniform.As you note, in most cases all but a brand new real car, just painted, would not be glossy, so another clear coat is needed. Depending on the age of the car or locomotive you're modelling, you might want to use a semi-gloss (for a not-too-long-in-service car) or a flat finish (for a car that has been in use for a while).Whichever you choose, that finish will be going over an already uniform finish, which will ensure that the final results remain uniform. And keep in mind, too, that even an almost new car can be weathered.
As for steam locomotives, yes, most were painted black - usually glossy black. However, the paint on a steam locomotive, once it's in service, not only gets weathered (dirty) but it's various surfaces react to the environment to which they're subjected. The smokebox and firebox, if they're not lagged (covered with insulation and the insulation covered with painted sheet metal) get very hot, and are usually not painted, but rather covered by an application of graphite and oil. That can vary in appearance from grey to silver, but over time, the heat may turn it darker, even black or brown or rust-coloured.The boiler is usually lagged, and covered by sheet metal, and it doesn't get as hot on the outside surfaces, so the paint becomes a bit duller over time, often appearing lighter than it was when new. The cab and tender, for the most part, are not subjected to similar heat, so the paint there will retain its original glossy appearance longer. All of these surfaces, of course, are subject to weathering, both from the locomotive itself, and from the environment in which it's used.I'm modelling the late '30s, when labour was still cheap, and many roads still had pride in their equipment, so most of my locomotives are in pretty-good shape. To get the look I want, I use at least four variations of "black".The first is pretty-well just out of a bottle of black paint, with perhaps a very small amount of white or grey added. This colour is for the cab's front, rear and sides. and likewise for those areas of the tender.
The next "black" is the first one, but with more white or grey added, and perhaps a bit of brown - this is for the boiler and usually the deck of the tender's cistern.That "black" is then altered further, with the addition of more grey and brown, and often some graphite or silver paint - this is for the running gear of the locomotive and tender - wheels, trucks, frames and side rods, etc.The final "black" is the previous one, but with much more brown added, and usually, quite a bit of red and/or orange. This is applied to the smokebox and firebox. After all of those paints dry, I use a brush to paint any appliances which are mounted on the smokebox or firebox - these are items which, on the real ones, would have been painted before installation and because they're not mounted directly on those hot surfaces, the paint is similar in colour to that of the boiler. Once all of the brush work is done (there are lots of details on most steamers which have colours other than black, especially valve handles which were often brass and left unpainted or were painted red), the next step is to apply clear finishes over the various areas.I like to use a fairly glossy finish for the parts of the cab and tender which were painted with the original "black", a not overly-shiny semi-gloss for the boiler, and all of the aforementioned appliances, and a fairly dull semi-gloss for the running gear. The tender bunker and deck gets a coat of clear matte (don't want the fireman slipping when he's working there), and the smokebox and firebox get no clear overcoat - the rough surface of the matte paint better-represents these areas than would a clear matte finish.Any desired weathering can be applied over all of this, as all really dirty locomotives, at least once in their existence, started out clean.
Here's a Broadway Mikado, just out of the paint shop, that I painted for a friend...
She, however, wanted a locomotive that was still mechanically sound, but nearing the end of its useful life, so I began to weather it, sending photos after each session, to ensure that it didn't get too decrepit for her tastes...
Initial weathering...
Further weathering...
...and the final appearance...
Some of my own locos, or ones painted for other friends...
this one's just out of the shop...
I think that most folks who paint and/or weather their own locomotives do so in a manner which suits their own tastes and preferences, so the photos above are only to show mine - I'm not suggesting it's a better way, but merely another option.
I've been away a few days and am just now getting back to this thread. It looks like a lot of good tips and things for me to try.
My printer is an inexpensive HP inkjet. I had my doubts it would even pass through the thick decal paper. I found I had to take the curl out of the paper by laying a heavy book plus some additional weight on the sheets for several hours. That got the paper to lie almost flat and to my pleasant surprise, it not only passed the paper but printed the decals with some fairly sharp lettering. I tried once before a number of years ago to make my own decals and they didn't come out nearly as sharp.
I realize my mistake using the dull coat shortly after I posted this. I had prepared last year to do the decals but didn't get around to it and had bought a can of their decal bonder specifically for that purpose but had forgotten it. Their dull coat and decal bonder cans look the same and I had them side by side on the shelf. It looked like I had two cans of dull coat so I grabbed that without thinking.
Great decals Wayne!!!
Good-looking decals, Mel!
John-NYBW...When I came back, the decals had dried and were adhering to the surface but the decal film was quite visible....
I suspect that the application of Dullcote not only made the decal more apparent (because it was thicker), but also that the Dullcote prevented the setting solutions from working on the outer surface of the decals.
While I use a fair amount of custom-made lettering (dry transfers and decals) I don't make my own.
If I'm using decals to letter something, the first job, after it's been painted, is to apply a gloss finish. I prefer Testors Glosscote, applied with an airbrush, but any suitable clear gloss should work. When that finish has fully dried (or cured, if acrylic), the decals are cut out. I do this work on a sheet of glass, usually using a utility knife with a new blade. I use my X-Acto to first cut the needed images from the decal sheet, leaving as much unprinted area around them as possible. After the block of lettering is on the glass, I align the blade of the utility knife with an edge of the image - if it's a word, for example, EASTERN the blade will be aligned with either the top or bottom of the entire word, or with the upright portion of the E or the N. All excess material is cut, in-turn, from the word, by simply pressing down with the pre-aligned blade, chopping off the unneeded blank paper, rather than slicing it off.If you look closely at a decal word that has had the excess paper sliced from around the word, you'll see that the edges along the cut are raised, both on the scrap portion and on the useable word portion, too, whereas the same decal with the excess paper "chopped-off", will have its edges pressed downward along the cut. Already, even before it's wetted, it's better-suited to settling onto the surface on which it will be applied.Another aid to making decals less noticeable as such is to remove excess blank decal film. On the chopped version of EASTERN, the only blank film is within the letters of the word or between them, so it's not all that noticeable.However, if the chopped word were, f'rinstance SOUTHEAST, there'd be blank clear film at the top left and bottom left corners of the S, and more blank film to the right of the T's upright and below the right side of the bar forming the top of the T. If those areas are trimmed-off, the lettering will look less decal-like once the car is finished.For the S (or any letters or numerals with rounded outer portions, such as O, 0,C, 8, etc.) a simple diagonal chop to remove most of that excess material will make a surprising difference. The same goes for leading or ending letters with angled sides (A, V, W, X, Y)...chopping off the clear material which begins or ends the word does help to make the decal film less apparent.I generally apply the decals using only water, since if you're making words using individual letters, it's always useful to be able to re-wet them to correct alignment issues. Once they look good, allow them to dry (usually only a couple of minutes) then use a small brush to apply a minute amount of Microset to an edge of each character - it will be drawn under the decal, usually settling it completely. Once that dries, you can use a stronger setting solution - I prefer Solvaset, regardless of the decals' manufacturer. Once all the lettering is in place and set, I use a moistened cloth to wipe away any residue left by the setting solutions, then, once dry, the entire car gets another coat of clear gloss. This might seem unnecessary, but the gloss of a just-applied decal is not necessarily identical to the gloss of the surface to which it's been applied - this second coat of gloss makes the entire surface that same uniform gloss, which will become, once an overspray of clear flat is applied, a uniform flat finish. Here are a couple of cars done with Champ decals on a gloss surface, but with no gloss applied over the decals before the Dullcote application.If you click on the photos, you should get an enlargment, and another click on that should yield an even closer view. Both cars turned out fairly well, but not as good as they could have been...
Here's a recently done car, decaled on a glossy surface, but an application of gloss not yet added over the decals (it's also pretty dusty, but that will be dealt with before any further application of finishes). The decal film, especially near the right end of the car, is quite noticeable...
Here's the same car, with a second coat of gloss, followed, almost immediately, with an application of Dullcote...
...and after being in service for a while (although it could use some chalk markings, too)...
...a similar car...
This Accurail car, one of ten done with custom decals from Rail Graphics, does fairly well even under close scrutiny (a couple of clicks should yield a full-screen image)....
I've also found that even Microscale decals will look less decal-like if that blob of supposedly tapered-down film around each image is removed.
Also keep in mind that if you're not entering model building contests, most of the time your trains are on the layout, and are perhaps not subjected to the close scrutiny needed when an item is being judged. Each of us will have our own degree of skills and our own standards for what's "good enough" or what needs to be improved. Perhaps some will find my suggestions useful, while others may have different useful suggestions - the more we learn, the more we're able to do, so please feel free to share your tips and methods.
If you print your decals on a ink jet printer, they need to be sealed or the ink will run when they go in the water. I tried a number of clear coats, and the solvent in most of them also made the ink run. Krylon Acrylic Gloss Clear works very well to protect ink jet decals; there also is a UV resistant verson available a craft stores.
As mentioned above, the surface the decals are going on has to be gloss, or the decal will not adhere well. As to the decal moving around, that means there is too much liquid on the surface. A little liquid helps move the decal in place, then it should be wicked away with a paper towel. Just touch the edge of the towel gently to the liquid; avoid touching the decal as much as possible,
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I am not sure why you sprayed the decals with Dullcote, but that could be part of the problem.
.
For best results, the paint should be glossy, and the decal should be glossy. Then you coat the whole thing with Testors #1260 Dulcote when you are done.
Apply Microset when you slie the decal into position, then use Microsol to snuggle it down.
The absolute BEST decal setting solution is "Strong Formula" by Daco. You will need to mail order it from Europe, but when a decal will not set with Microsol or Solvaset, Daco Strong does the job.
When Microsol is working, never try to move the decal. You will just make it worse.
I hope some of this helps.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Hi John
You are experiencing what we call "silvering" The cure for that is to apply the decals to a gloss surface. Cody uses several coats of gloss. I use Model Master.
I cut decals on a piece of glass with a fresh xacto blade as close as possible to the lettering.
My experience is with the now defunct Rail Graphics decals and DIY decals on clear decal ink jet paper. My initial experiences with DIY decals is poor. Black lettering is not dense enough against an orange background and is barely visible. That was never a problem with commercial decals.
After putting it off for a couple of years, I have finally got around to creating decals for my fictional road, the New York, Binghamton, & Western RR as well as the equally fictitious branch line, the Munsee Valley RR. Through considerable trial and error for sizing and color matching, I've created two sheet of decals which to my eye look pretty good. After the ink dried I sealed each sheet with two thin layers of dull coat.
For my first effort I decided to start with something simple, the lettering on a small steamer for the Munsee Valley. I used a hobby knife to cut the M.V.R.R lettering from the decal sheet and soaked it in water. I then prepared the surface of the tender with Micro Sol. I slid the decal onto the prepared surface and careful moved it into place. I then applied more Micro Sol to the decal. I found no matter how gently I applied the Micro Sol, the decal kept sliding around so once I got it back into place, I allowed the solution to dry. I then came back and applied some Micro Set to the decal. I did the same for the loco number on the side of the cab. I then set it aside for several hours.
When I came back, the decals had dried and were adhering to the surface but the decal film was quite visible. In addition, since these were printed on white decal paper, there was a thin white line showing around the edges of the film. I tried applying more Micro Set but then the ink began to smear, ruining this first set. I anticipated some problems so a printed extras but I want to learn to do this right before I try again.
I see the decal work of other models in WPF and their decals have the painted on look with the decal film not obvious at all as they were with my first effort. What is the secret to obtaining that look and getting the decal film to disappear and also getting rid of that thin white outline around the edge of the decal? Or to put it another way, what am I doing wrong?