Hey, you didn't think I was just going to let Soldering 101 slide to the second page without Reviving it did you.... I didn't think so either
Very informative thread here for us half-hearted melt the layout down type of guys
But on a more serious note. We didn't touch down on the tinning of the tip.
I remember my Brother sizzling the tip of the soldering iron on a wet paper towel and getting it all silver and shiny and telling me it was very important. I just don't remember what he did.
Thanks Track Fiddler
robert sylvesterMy wife bought me a Butane Soldering iron, it heats up fast but I noticed with the pointed tip it quickly melted some of the ties,
I have a handy Dremel model butane soldering kit. I wouldn't even consider using it anywhere there is plastic or other materials that can not take excess heat. I use it for repairing and adding details on brass locomotives.
The hot gases from the flame have to go somewhere and your ties are seeing that heat. There are cordless soldering irons if you need the "portability" that the butane torch provides.
I love the Dremel kit but I wouldn't consider using it for soldering feeders. The lowest tip temperature is 1022° F!
https://tinyurl.com/yc79hkdj
Good luck, Ed
Rools for Soldering (by BroadwayLION)
1) LOOK AT the soldering iron BEFORE picking it up.
2) ADJUST your eyeglasses BEFORE reaching for the soldering iron.
3) Use HEAT, clean (hmmm... ?) and flux (Hmmmm. ?)
4) do not solder under the table because globs of hot solder will fall onto your nice soft fur.
5) N scale is EAISER to solder than HO because there is less metal to heat. (LION tried using 14 ga power bus, almost impossible to solder to, especially since him stripped the insulation off the entire length of wire and then was left with an impenitrable residue.)
6) To join sections of track, REMOVE the nearby ties, slide them back into place once the joint is soldered.
7) Have a bottle of Diet Dr. Pepper ready for whn you are finished.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Or maybe use track with concrete ties?
Mike.
My You Tube
My wife bought me a Butane Soldering iron, it heats up fast but I noticed with the pointed tip it quickly melted some of the ties, so I think I need to switch to a broad blade, what do you all think?
Robert Sylvester
Newberry-Columbia, SC
zstripe I believe You got that tip from Me Dave.....not putting down Mel, He does great work!
Yes Frank, I did get the tip from you and I apologise for getting my source wrong!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks for the info Dave. Appreciated. TF
A lot of good knowledge here. Thanks
In 1973, I went through a soldering course of instruction while in the U.S. Air Force and the things that stand out 45 years later are; (1) heat (2) clean (3) flux.
A soldering tool that was insufficient for the task would not heat the work, cause cold solder joints, and damage surrounding components. Cleaning of the items to be joined, even if removed new from the package was necessary to remove any manufacturing residue and oxidation. Oxidation was stressed because as soon as the layer of oxidation on a surface is removed, a new one starts to form. As soon as a surface was cleaned, it was to be protected by applying flux in the area to be soldered.
Employing the above techniques resulted in a minimum amount of solder necessary for a strong solder joint, evidenced by a bright, reflective metal surface akin to resembling chrome, instead of the dull grey of a cold solder joint of little or no strength. My favorite cleaning tools are isopropyl alcohol and pencil erasers. For heavy oxidation 800 grit sand paper if necessary and ink erasers may be used. As soon as the debris from cleaning is removed, flux is applied using a brush. Soldering is a necessary skill in model railroading that should not be seen as mysterious witchcraft
Having read this thread and all the woes of soldering This may help. I've seen many videos on soldering I think this is one of the best.
Bernd
New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds
protolancer(at)kingstonemodelworks(dot)com
Simple solutions are fantastic! My 1st mentor showed me that he used tape to hold two wires together on a 1x4 before soldering them together. This easy answer to soldering avoids gettign your hands anywhere near the hot solder iron.
Soldering is also not easy for me. I've had to redo many soildering joints. It takes a lot of patience to get soldering correct. With DCC, I have to do more soldering than when I used DC.
A true temperature controlled soldering station like my Xytronic one (which are quite inexpensive and built a lot better than the typical Chinesium junk you can find on eBay for the same price - and FAR less expensive than the Hakko or other brands which seem highly touted), and using simple plain 63/37 solder are probably the two best tips for someone who has trouble soldering.
First - the solder - 63/37 is a eutectic alloy, meaning the whole composition freezes and thaws at the same temperatue. The other common leaded solder, 60/40, is not, so when the joint cools, first one of the metals freezes, thent he other. This is where you get 'cold' joints if you don;t hold the connection physically stable the entire time. Much easier to accomplish a good joint with a eutectic solder. Other alloys are eutectic as well, some of the silver bearing ones are, some are not. You can find lists on line. Any solder will work once you are good at it, but a eutectic solder is by far easier to use.
Now - why a soldering station? Because the most important thing to remember when soldering is KEEP THE TIP CLEAN. The reason was mentioned - you want to transfer the maximum heat as fast as possible, so you can get in, get the joint soldered, and get out before the heat has a chance to migrate down the track and melt ties. Or melt wire insulation, or fry electronic components. A plain ordinary pencil type soldering iron, it just heats continuiously until the loss to the air from the tip is matched by the heater capacity (20 watt irons, 50 watt irons, etc). Not only is that temperature far too high for soldering, it also causes the tip to oxidize faster. ANd that oxide coating is a heat insulator. A temperature controlled station, on the other hand, has 4 wires going to the handpiece - 2 to power the heater, and 2 to measure the temperature. When the temperature reaches the setpoint, power is cyt off, keeping the tip at whatever temperature you set it for. Plus they heat very fast - the really expensive high end ones have sensors in the stand that shut it off when you return the handpiece to the stand, but on the more modest ones, if you set the iron back on the stand and it will be a few minutes before you will be ready for the next joint, you cna easily turn it down to the lowest setting. Again helps to keep the tip clean.
Next thing - my station, and many others, now come with a copper scouring pad type of thing, instead of the silly wet sponge. This does a much better job of cleaning the tip. You can buy stands with these built in to use for any iron, or if you go to the housewares section of the grocery store you can find them - they are used for copper pots - NEVER use a regualr steel scouring pad on a soldering iron.
Good maintenance is also a must, like any good tool. When first opening a new soldering iron, tin the tip with lots of solder, melt a big blob over it, then wipe it on the cleaner. Do this when you put it away, too - I turn mine down, melt a blob of solder on the tip, then turn it off. Next time I use it, there's a big blob of solder on the tip which I wipe on the cleaner and - nice shiny tip. I'm still on the same tip from close to 11 years I've had this station.
Tips - a pointy one is not good for track, but you don;t want a really giant chisel tip either. Though frankly mine came with a pointy tip and I've used it for everything from electronics to building Fast Tracks turnouts with no problem. I have a selection of a few sizes and shapes, but I haven't actually used any of them.
Clean clean clean - everything needs to be clean. Track fresh out of the box is not "clean" It may look clean, but there is manufacturing residue. Factory blackened track - the blackening must be cleaned off where you want to solder a wire on. Flux alone will not clean the blackened stuff, but flux is usually good enough for regular track and joiners.
And also on solder - use the finer stuff for everything but really large joints, like heavy bus wires. Even .032 is too big for track feeders, or rail to rail joints. I have .015 for that.
Soldering is easy, with the right tools. And the right tools don't cost a small fortune, either.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Heat sinks help if you are like me and not a soldering guru.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Well I have been using Solder-It silver bearing solder paste for well over 5yrs. now and have got so used to it, that I do not use anything else. It is 5times stronger than 60/40, along with being so much easier to use. I do not use anything else anymore. I believe You got that tip from Me Dave.....not putting down Mel, He does great work!
I usually make jigs for soldering many hard to hold parts, sort of like assembly line soldering. Using the paste to hold things in position gives you a one hand free advantage........that's the main part I like about using it.
A jig for making the chain link fencing, which is set for 100 scale ft. Painters tape just holds down the ends:
The paste set on the parts, which is 3/64 posts and 1/32 stringers. The long posts are cut every second one then set in the Homasote base. No need to glue....they are removeable........the whole fence, including sliding gate:
The sliding gate, Of which I made two, so far. All soldered with the paste:
I use a pencil variable temp iron from Mudder, with a chisel tip. The fence material is 3/64 copper screen cut at a 45 degree angle:
The first sliding gate fence I made:
The loops in the 3/64 tube are .20'' brass rod formed ans soldered to hold the chains in the display truck:
The Kadee knuckle springs were soldered to this Walthers pass. light bar for better contact.......the paste held them in place prior to soldering:
It is just so much easier to solder with the paste........seems expensive to some, but worth it to Me.....
Take Care!
Frank
hon30critterI agree. Alligator clips are not very effective heat sinks.
Agree as well. Like Dave I've never had to use heat sinks on the usual joiner/feeder wire soldering to track. I HAVE had to use heat sinks when soldering to short lengths or rail at turnouts or the occasional repair at a switch point.
I've used these "toothless" flat clips sometimes:
https://tinyurl.com/y92b22v8
They are also handy for holding small components for soldering. Most alligator clips have very crudely formed "Teeth" and aren't much use for gripping anything but stranded wire and the like.
Regards, Ed
AttuvianIf by "alligator clip thingies" Dave is referring to the little stand with the clips and magnifying glass on moveable arms, I'm inclined to agree.
Hi John,
That is exactly what I am referring to. Thank you for describing them better.
AttuvianI'm pretty skeptical about using standard alligator clips as heat sinks, too. After all, consider the rather minimal contact with the material being soldered by merely the points of the clip's teeth.
I agree. Alligator clips are not very effective heat sinks.
Now just to stir the pot, I'm going to suggest that heat sinks aren't necessary when soldering track feeders and the like. As has been said, the trick is to use a soldering tip with enough mass to carry sufficient heat that the rails will heat up quickly, prepare the joint properly, and get in and get out as soon as the solder flows. If the solder doesn't melt quickly then either your tip is dirty or it is too small or you haven't made proper contact with the rails. Don't sit with the iron on the rails waiting forever for the solder to melt. Holding the iron on too long will surely melt the ties.
I do use heat sinks when I am building my brass critters like the one in my avatar. Usually I will use damp paper towels. Sometimes I use needle nose pliers with an elastic around the handles. However, the principles are still the same. Prepare the surface properly and get in and out as quickly as possible. If the solder doesn't melt within a half a second or so, remove the iron or all the adjacent joints will melt. Been there, done that!!
hon30critter I have one of those alligator clip thingies. It doesn't work very well IMHO. Dave
I have one of those alligator clip thingies. It doesn't work very well IMHO.
If by "alligator clip thingies" Dave is referring to the little stand with the clips and magnifying glass on moveable arms, I'm inclined to agree.
But that brings up another issue here in "Soldering 101": I'm pretty skeptical about using standard alligator clips as heat sinks, too. After all, consider the rather minimal contact with the material being soldered by merely the points of the clip's teeth. Intuitively, the greater the common surface area, the greater the effectiveness of any heat sink. I bring this up because it's not uncommon to see these unmodified clips being suggested or displayed in this role on this and other forums.
Am I nit-picking here? I certainly don't mind being corrected on this point. There's some great stuff in this string. Might be good to get a little more play on the issue of heat sinks.
John
Track fiddlerI seem to remember about a year back on this forum the talk of a 20% silver flux core solder..... good stuff??
Hi TF,
I think you are referring to 2% silver bearing solder. 20% probably wouldn't melt unless you used a torch.
Silver bearing solder is recommended for electronics work. I have used it for years with great success. I buy Kester's 62% tin, 36% lead and 2% silver rosin core solder from Ngineering, item # N4200. It seems to last me a long time.
Scroll down:
https://ngineering.com/soldering.htm
The other solder that I have just discovered thanks to Frank (zstripe) is solder paste from SOLDER-IT. It is also silver bearing and melts quite quickly. The beauty of solder paste is that you don't have to hold it on the joint. It sticks by itself thereby eliminating the need for a third hand.
This is a Canadian listing but the same stuff is sold in the US:
https://www.homehardware.ca/en/71g-multi-use-solder-paste/p/1139182
Dispencing it from the tube takes a little practice. I have found it helpful to pull back on the plunger as soon as I have enough solder coming out of the tip. Otherwise it will continue to flow.
Good one Rich. Made perfect sense to me.
I do need to improve my soldering ability no matter what I decide to do. I'm thinking of soldering a feed wire on to every track connector on the layout and then taking a toothpick and putting No Ox A Special ID continuity grease inside the channel of every track connector before I connect them.
If you think about it at that point, every rail can have a 50% failure rate and still work.
TF
PS Let's talk solder here. I seem to remember about a year back on this forum the talk of a 20% silver flux core solder..... good stuff?? Make the job go smoother??
Thanks
The tip of wide blade and not pointy tip is a good one, along with the flux paste. I don't even use a pointy one for electronics because they don't disperse the heat quick enough. Get in and out quickly. You learn this quick when solding expensive ICs and transistors. I used my helpings hand this evening fixing the Harbor Freight maginifiing desk lamp. The spade connectors were cheap and the wire had metal fatigued and the conector broke So I put new wire to the switch and did not use spade connectors.
Some just do not realize. Good soldering is an acquired art. Not a necessary evil. You can do ii if you want to. It takes practice on scrap material. I have been soldering since 1955.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
cedarwoodronImagine my suprise when one instructional video suggested using small pieces of masking tape to hold parts in place as an aid to soldering (freehand, not with a breadboard) and using a scrap of wood as a work surface.
Thats what I do, when ever it's practable. I use a piece of 2x4. I've also just placed some kind of weight over the wire and the object.
It doesn't fit every situation. Now I know I'm not getting one those "helping hands" thing. I've put off buying one. Thanks for making up my mind.
I've seen home made versions with clips soldered to pieces of wire, stuck into a block of wood. The wire being bendable, to postion things the way you need.
I think one of those soldering stations will be my next move.
I have an Xtronic soldering station- with a digital temperature dialable control. It comes with 10 various tips and replacement elements. Best father's day gift I ever got several years ago!.
Cedarwoodron
I would suppose HO is a little more forgiving, what with the bigger rail and all. Haven't ever done N scale trackwork, so...
Yes, you want the soldering iron as hot as is workable -- if it's oxidizing as soon as you clean it off, it's too hot; but the hotter it is, the more heat it can dump into the rail (and likewise the solder) before the element has to (SLOWLY) heat the tip and the rail again. And while it's doing that, all the heat you started with is escaping down the rails / into the ties.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
You know.... I am a pretty good welder in all types of welding. Different ball game, same concept with bigger stock but no plastic around to melt.
With that in mind, I would think HO would be a little more forgiving to solder rails than N scale..... just wondering? I also have heard, the hotter the soldering iron the better results you will have. Is this true?
I'm already melting ties and I should use a hotter soldering iron does not make a lot of sense to me.
Thanks for helping advance.
Sorry I was typing while you were answering my previous post
Track fiddler Soldering has always been one of my weaknesses. Yep... by no means one of my strong suits. When I was a kid there wasn't too much I wasn't good at. Soldering was not one of them. I always melted the ties on the Flex Track and the big blob leftover looked like junk. The only difference is back than, a piece of Flex track was only $0.50 I ruined instead of $6 it will be now a days. Isn't that nice.... now I'm even more timid to solder TF I'll be paying attention to this thread. HELP
Soldering has always been one of my weaknesses. Yep... by no means one of my strong suits.
When I was a kid there wasn't too much I wasn't good at. Soldering was not one of them.
I always melted the ties on the Flex Track and the big blob leftover looked like junk. The only difference is back than, a piece of Flex track was only $0.50 I ruined instead of $6 it will be now a days.
Isn't that nice.... now I'm even more timid to solder TF
I'll be paying attention to this thread. HELP
Flux paste, and a wide tip (NOT the little pointy one you'd use for electronics).
Essentially, the idea is to cram as much heat as fast as possible into the two rails and the joiner, so that the solder melts, but the heat doesn't have time to travel to the ties.
Kind of the same idea that a sharp knife is safer than a dull one.
A common securing device for "structural" model soldering (things like fencing, guard rails, stairs and the like) is to use blue-tack or playdoh or some equivalent substance to tack the pieces down to a flat board, at least for the initial 'flat panel' soldering phase.
cedarwoodronImagine my suprise when one instructional video suggested using small pieces of masking tape to hold parts in place as an aid to soldering
I can relate to having your "work" secured in some way.
Imagine MY surprise when I was soldering small 30 ga. wire to a "sugar cube" speaker. As I brought the tip of the soldering iron close to the tiny spring clips that make up the connection the speaker jumped right off the bench and stuck to the hot iron.
Speaker = magnet + soldering IRON.
Yes, I make sure my pieces are somehow secured. That goes for drilling, too.
Cheers, Ed
I love simple solutions.
.
I have owned two of the "helping hands" tool through the years, and never had much luck with either one of them
-Kevin
Living the dream.