There are metal, fibre, and a whole slew of various plastic washers available out there, which material is best to use between the truck and car body?
As always, thanks.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
A few times I used the Kadee fiber.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Brent,
.
I use metal as rarely as possible.
I found #2 fender washers made out of nylon in 0.010", 0.020", and 0.040" thicknesses in an electronic supply store a couple of years ago. I bought a lifetime supply, and I love them.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I recommend metal washers. They're more reliable and durable than other materials. You don't want a washer to break due to unintentional, albeit unlikely, over tightening.
Kerry
I've never used any metal washers ever, only Kadee fiber washers like for the past 30+ years. Never seen any "wear out".
There are two sizes:
Kadee #208 red - 0.015" thick
Kadee #209 gray - 0.010: thick
I always try to have an envelope of each on hand.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761I've never used any metal washers ever, only Kadee fiber washers like for the past 30+ years. Never seen any "wear out". There are two sizes: Kadee #208 red - 0.015" thick Kadee #209 gray - 0.010: thick I always try to have an envelope of each on hand.
As with me.
Mike.
My You Tube
The Kadee fibre washers are very sturdy and durable .
Only once or twice did I face a car so excessively low that I needed a thicker washer than the Kadees and what I found was the trucks seemed more prone to wobble on a metal washer even though it was smooth and flat.
However note that I said "a car so excessively low" -- not a coupler box or coupler that is too low, but the car. If the car is at the correct height I much prefer using an offset shaft Kadee coupler and I keep a supply of both offset options ready at hand.
Dave Nelson
dknelson However note that I said "a car so excessively low" -- not a coupler box or coupler that is too low, but the car. If the car is at the correct height I much prefer using an offset shaft Kadee coupler and I keep a supply of both offset options ready at hand. Dave Nelson
I don't like to use any more than a single fiber washer. It seems if I use more than one, the car is more likely to rock or wobble and be less stable. So like you, if the car is low enough that one of the thicker washers doesn't do the job, then look at one of the offset shank couplers to get you to match the height gauge.
For a "car of interest", I check both the coupler height and the car height.
I prefer to get the car height correct, first. Sources for that information are Official Railway Equipment Registers and also railroad diagram books. I usually install a three-point suspension, which involves washers "under" one truck, and bolster truck bearings for the other.
I then adjust coupler height by raising or lowering the coupler box. Kadee makes shims for lowering coupler boxes:
https://kadee.com/htmbord/page211.htm
If the box has to be raised, I usually remove material from the floor to do it. Or I sometimes leave out the "upper" part of the box and thin the lower. This raises the coupler by about .020".
Ed
GNMT76I recommend metal washers. They're more reliable and durable than other materials. You don't want a washer to break due to unintentional, albeit unlikely, over tightening.
I just did an experiment with a piece of 1/4" thick brass, a steel 4-40 screw, and a Kadee red (0.015") washer.
It took a tremedous amount of force. but the screw stripped first, and there was no damage to the washer. I checked the washer thickness, and it still measured 0.015" with my digital micrometer. No visible or measurable deformation..
Then, just for fun, i put the washer in the arbor press, and I put all my weight on it. The washer did deform a little, and was reduced to 0.012" thickness, but that was over 1 ton of pressure.
I do not think there is any cause for concern due to over-tightening.
I use #6 flat washers from the hardware store. Cheap, widely available and they do the job. One flat washer under each truck will bring my couplers up to match my coupler gauge.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I prefer Kadee fiber washers and keep two packs of the red and gray in my washer storage bottles or better known as former pill bottles.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
riogrande5761I don't like to use any more than a single fiber washer.
The biggest offenders are resin kits by Westerfield and Funaro & Camerlengo.
In all fairness, I do not use the coupler boxes that come with these kits. Instead I drill and tap the floor 2-56 to take the Kadee coupler boxes. This shop-work might be what makes thicker, or multiple, washers necessary.
EDIT: I just noticed the OP specifcally asked about in between the truck and carbody. The examples above are in bewteen the car floor and coupler box.
BATMAN There are metal, fibre, and a whole slew of various plastic washers available out there, which material is best to use between the truck and car body? As always, thanks.
the best is what ever you like. i like cheep so i use .010 , .015 made out of evergreen black plastic
SeeYou190 EDIT: I just noticed the OP specifcally asked about in between the truck and carbody. The examples above are in bewteen the car floor and coupler box.
Yes, but adjusting coupler height is intimately related to adjusting body height on trucks.
j. c.I like cheep so i use .010 , .015 made out of evergreen black plastic
I've done that before, cutting my own, when I was laid off and between jobs; but these days I can afford a couple if dollars for a pack of Kadee fiber washers. It takes time to make your own and hobby time is hard to find for the past year or so.
Thanks for all the responses, everyone.
I went to an industrial electronics store that I often frequent and found Delrin washers. All the small sizes were sold out but I think they would have been ideal. The Delrin seemed to be the same kind of plastic the car and truck were made out of, though I could be wrong. I think the friction between the washer and car/truck would have been minimal as all the surfaces were so smooth.
As far as the fiber washers go, what kind of material is the fiber they are made of? Also what kind of plastic are our rail cars made out of?
I have put in an order for Kadee washers along with a coupler gauge. Mail order is much cheaper than driving into civilization.
riogrande5761 j. c. I like cheep so i use .010 , .015 made out of evergreen black plastic I've done that before, cutting my own, when I was laid off and between jobs; but these days I can afford a couple if dollars for a pack of Kadee fiber washers. It takes time to make your own and hobby time is hard to find for the past year or so.
j. c. I like cheep so i use .010 , .015 made out of evergreen black plastic
i'm retired so time is not important to me , but the nearst hobby shop being a 3 hour drive is , thats why i make my own.
I use the Kadee fiber washers, and I'm not afraid to put two in if necessary. The only problem that I have encountered with the Kadee washers is that sometimes they won't fit over the bolster post on used Athearn cars. It seems that the previous owners had over tightened the truck screws which caused the bolster posts to flare out. All I do is use a side cutter to cut through the washers on one side and they will slip over the posts quite easily. I have never had to use the Kadee offset couplers and I have done about 200 freight cars. I will admit that there are a few cars where the offset couplers would have been a cleaner solution but if the cars track properly who cares.
In addition to getting the coupler height correct, I think that getting the truck screws adjusted to the right tension is critical. I have always followed the advise that says that one truck should pivot and rock freely (within reason) and the other truck should pivot freely but not rock. That works but it does take a few attempts sometimes to get the screws set properly. Several times I have had the non rocking truck screws set just a bit too tight with the result that they will derail at the slightest opportunity.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
j. c. i'm retired so time is not important to me , but the nearst hobby shop being a 3 hour drive is , thats why i make my own.
Being retired, then it makes more sense. Although if you get tired of making them, they are only a couple of bucks for a pack, which you can add to an order that comes to your door, if you still buy stuff online or mail order. That said, I expect when I'm retired, my disposable income limited so the equation I have right now, and others here (more money and little time) will be reversed.
hon30critter I use the Kadee fiber washers, and I'm not afraid to put two in if necessary. The only problem that I have encountered with the Kadee washers is that sometimes they won't fit over the bolster post on used Athearn cars. It seems that the previous owners had over tightened the truck screws which caused the bolster posts to flare out. All I do is use a side cutter to cut through the washers on one side and they will slip over the posts quite easily. I have never had to use the Kadee offset couplers and I have done about 200 freight cars. I will admit that there are a few cars where the offset couplers would have been a cleaner solution but if the cars track properly who cares. In addition to getting the coupler height correct, I think that getting the truck screws adjusted to the right tension is critical. I have always followed the advise that says that one truck should pivot and rock freely (within reason) and the other truck should pivot freely but not rock. That works but it does take a few attempts sometimes to get the screws set properly. Several times I have had the non rocking truck screws set just a bit too tight with the result that they will derail at the slightest opportunity. Dave
I've found that putting two washers make it more difficult to keep the truck from rocking, for some reason. But that said, a few of my kits have been built with two washers to get the optimal height. A few have home-made washers, like our retired poster above, + a Kadee fiber washer, and they work pretty well.
I agree about getting the screws tighted to the correct tightness. I've found to be able to do that, I need to file the bolster down enough to allow the crew to get close enough to the truck to allow it to pivot, but not rock.
I too use the Kadee red & gray washers. But I have also found that sometimes changing trucks from a different manufacturer can change the height as well
with the mounting place being a bit higher or lower than the other truck
Hello all,
I have used Kadee fiber, teflon and steel washers all with great success depending on the application.
One instance I had to repair the bolster of a Tyco crane- -the main pivot of the crane itself- -I used a stepped teflon washer and a steel fender washer.
For truck height adjustments I use the Kadee fiber washers.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
riogrande5761I agree about getting the screws tighted to the correct tightness. I've found to be able to do that, I need to file the bolster down enough to allow the crew to get close enough to the truck to allow it to pivot, but not rock.
That is something that I have not done but it makes a lot of sense. I think I'm going to go back over my fleet and remove the excess bolster post.
Thanks!