rrrrrgh, time to vent my frustration.
I ordered a Bowser C636 from a rather large outfit, whose name I shall not mention because it might violate policy. Let's just say it very nearly rhymes with "tall firs".
When it arrived, this is how it was packed:
Yes, that's two wee little air cells (one of which is deflated), some paperwork, and a reasonably expensive locomotive otherwise loose in a great big box, for the entire trip from Milwaukee or thereabouts to Los Angeles.
Needless to say, this was not good for the reasonably expensive locomotive, which arrived with several pieces broken off. (I didn't bother test-running it.)
OK, crap happens, and it could be worse; a club-mate showed me pics of a Genesis loco she bought which arrived with a hole through the outer box, the loco box, and the manual (whatever pierced it stopped mercifully short of the loco itself).
Still, buying this thing has been the most frustrating experience ever. To wit:
-- My first attempt to get one was from another vendor and was deeply marked down (I won't name them either, but it rhymes with "vain curled") It arrived damaged as well; it was well packed but looked like it had been dropped before it was shipped (I've heard of "drop shipping" but this is ridiculous!). Two pieces broken off (funnily enough, those pieces were also broken off the second one). Vendor was great about the return, but found that the only other one they had was also damaged. They refunded my money.
-- Tall Firs had a 10% off sale that brought the price within $20 of Vain Curled. OK, close enough, but I placed my order on Dec. 24th and had to wait three days for the order to be processed.
-- When I opened my package and discovered my brokomotive, it was half an hour after customer service closed... on a Friday.
-- I'm traveling like mad this month, so I have to resolve all this via remote control on Monday, and I only have a tiny window Wednesday evening to pack and ship this thing back (assuming they process the RMA, which, being mega-big, I'm sure they will.)
No one's fault, really -- well, except whoever broke the first one I ordered and the dunce who packed this second one -- but it seems like I just was NOT destined to own this locomotive!
I was tempted to give up but... mmmm, big Alco, mmmm, Bowser, mmmm LokSound, lurrrv. And besides, my Rivarossi U25Cs will get lonely.
OK, glad I got this off my chest. I feel marginally better. Not much, but a little.
Aaron
Very unsual for ''tall firs'' to send out a package packed like that.....I would have surely given them the photo of how You got it. Been dealing with them quite a number of yrs. and never had a package sent lacking proper support like that one......never got one that rattled or had any movement in it. You could have even complained to Bowser on that one.
Take Care!
Frank
Rhymes with Boy Grain Seven often has sales on those locomotives. I get notices from them at least once a week and many times, it's more than once a week.
Their SITE is closely associated with the maker of those locomotives, and you can subscribe to get similar updates.
The latter is also one of my favourite hobbyshops to visit, and I've often made the 250 mile trip to shop in person or to pick-up pre-ordered stuff.
Wayne
I agree with the senseless packaging methods some shippers use. Amazon has been using those little air-pillows for a while and they are worthless, IMHO. I often get damaged packages from Amazon
Ordinary bubblewrap is being phased out due to storage and shipping costs but there is a new "self-inflating" type bubblewrap coming into use that seems OK.
I get a charge out of shippers that place the item flat on the bottom of the box then place all the cushioning material on top, with NO protection at the bottom where the impact will take place.
I DO like the methods that MB Klein uses, rhymes with Model Train Stuff. They seem to spare no expenxe in the shipping room. They even tape the inside-bottom of the box for extra security, items are wrapped in bubble wrap then surrounded by foam peanuts.
Rapido mentions in their user manual that it is certainly possible for little details to break off. They will gladly repair anything but caution that the return trip may be worse than what condition you have now! I've had very few problems, fortunately, but the manufacturers were all willing to stand behind their products.
If I can help it I avoid purchases anytime near the Holidays. Often there are temporary workers, the order filling system is stretched thin and the shipping agencies are all taking shortcuts to speed up delivery, like tossing your package the last twenty feet of a 500 mile journey. Sometimes I have asked Ebay sellers to delay their shipment for this reason.
There is a double-edged sword here. Many more fine details on the rolling stock and locomotives + fewer B&M hobby shops where you can see what exactly you are buying.
Like Wayne, I shop often at the site he mentioned and have visited as well. Good people there.
Good Luck, Ed
I had just the opposite packaging from "tall firs", Aaron. My order arrived in a large, flat type box with the contents very well protected in sheets of bubble wrap. All of this for a small plastic bag with some gears! It could have been sent in a regular envelope. Go figure.
Russ
Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ. Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/
All the locomotives and train cars I have mail ordered... there has been tons of them... only ever had poorly packed items twice, both from ebay sellers, and in both cases the locomotive packaging saved the model.
.
The BEST packaging, by far, is done by Brasstrains dot com. I would give MB Klein the number two position, and Walthers number three.
Nothing has ever been damaged by the Post Office, UPS, or FedEx.
Maybe I am just very lucky.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Woe is me. I can't figure out what rhymes with tall firs.
Rich
Alton Junction
"Well there", Rich...You should be able to figure it out now???
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
richhotrain Woe is me. I can't figure out what rhymes with tall firs. Rich
Shame on you, Rich
Even I got it, and I am not a native of the British Western Colonies!
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
I had trouble with "Tall Firs" also when I first read this post. It was like my brain ran into a "wall" over "ther" and could not put it together.
I have had many packages damaged from many different dealers who shipped very poorly packed items.
Whenever possible I buy in person at an actual train shop or the Timonium train show. The best packing shippers include MB Klein, Train Station (Ohio), and Western Depot. I buy in person from the retail store associated with Toy Train Heaven, so do not know about their shipping. I also buy in person at MB Klein, but usually mail order from them.
Walthers can charge an awful lot just for items, so I do not buy from them.
On Ebay I only buy items from dealers who have no hassle returns AND nearly perfect feedback. I have returned several items.
John
SeeYou190 I had trouble with "Tall Firs" also when I first read this post. It was like my brain ran into a "wall" over "ther" and could not put it together. -Kevin
You guys are just too straight forward thinking! Us old Europeans have learned to think in detours...
(Takes hat and coat and hurries out of the door ...)
SeeYou190I had trouble with "Tall Firs" also when I first read this post. It was like my brain ran into a "wall" over "ther" and could not put it together.
OK, now I got it. This thread has been a fun quessing game on all the names.!
OK, now lets do it again!
I can't complain, close enough for me to drive to, if I really need something that bad. Not in the best part of town. Although not the worst.
Mike.
My You Tube
I do wish that all the bubble wrap (and still occasional popcorn) were replaced with something that I could toss into recycling. Like crumpled newspaper.
Have any shippers actually tried the newspaper and found it failing? Or was it dumped because there was some new cutting-edge stuff?
I DO realize that bubble wrap and styrofoam have a place. I shipped a ZW transformer:
across the country. It arrived with handles intact (HOORAY!!) because it was carefully placed in a box that was otherwise filled with popcorn. Newspapers would not have worked.
For HO, I think locomotives, even if in their original special cradles, should probably not be shipped in paper. But half a dozen freight cars? I'd think yes.
Of course, choosing the correct packing material might further confuse the life form that packed the item in the topic's original photo.
Ed
I think the only thing model train related that I got damaged was from an eBay purchase, and it was not a shipping problem. The model was still sealed in a plastic bag inside the box, and the broken off piece was not to be found inside the bag - so the break happened before the model was actually packaged. This was when Stewart was still a seperate company from Bowser, and they sent me a replacement painted shell.
That pack job looks like it was sent out by someone at the end of the day, who used the last air pillow and didn;t feel like running to some other part of the warehouse to get another pack of them because it was their quitting time. I seriously doubt that was any sort of 'standard' way of doing things there at Tall Firs. Also, interesting that the previously shipped model, PLUS the one left in stock at the seller, AND this one all had the same broken piece - not a shipping problem, I suspect, but a miscalculation on the packaging by Bowser that perhaps allows too much pressure on the fine detail parts at that location. Or some poor handling instructions to the person at the Chinese factory that put the things in the box. Still no excuse for shipping it like that though, risking far worse damage. I once got a hard drive from a seller on Amazon that came that way. I never even opened it up, KNOWING a hard drive shipped loose in a very much larger cardboard box was not going to be long for the world. Thing is, this was fuilfilled by Amazon, so THEY are the ones that packed it. They offered me a free exchange, with free overnight shipping for my troubles, and I EXPLICITLY spelled out that the issue was the packing. Guess how the repalcement one came shipped? Yup. Exactly the same. Against my better judgement I hooked it up and it actually worked fine, no SMART errors or anything. About 9 months ago. Last week a drive failed in my server - guess which drive it was? Because of the way things are set up, I lost nothing but some available free space. I wish I could afford it - I'd make the whole thing with SSDs, no mechanical junk. Those things you cna nearly throw against a wall without damage.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
7j43kI do wish that all the bubble wrap (and still occasional popcorn) were replaced with something that I could toss into recycling. Like crumpled newspaper.
At work, in the shipping and receiving area, they have a machine that perforates corrugated cardboard and turns it into packing material.
Old boxes become the packing material in new boxes, and it can all be recycled.
"Everything we do leads to a cleaner, safer, and healthier environment."
Of all the items I have ordered and had delivered, only two have ever had an issue.
One from "vain curled" (took me a while to figure that one out... I was thinking "what on earth rhymes with curled?" and somehow, it just skipped me for a few minutes that I needed to remove the "e" from "curled" and think of "brain whirled"....) was squished by that "rhymes with Med-express" company when they delivered it into my mailbox. (Which was also illegal I will point out... Idiots.) But, that locomotive was saved by the good packaging job, as there was not even a mark on the locomotive box, let alone locomotive.
(Incidentally, my boss had a issue with "Med-express" as well, where they "could not find his address." and he handled it, by politely pointing out the fact that "brown has no problem!" )
And one other locomotive from a shop that got transplanted to another state, which, somehow, the locomotive was shipped in, of all things, (good grief!) a BUBBLE ENVELOPE!!!!!! (Marked "Fragile" with a sticker at least.)
While I did complain, (with pictures), the locomotive packaging (somehow, miraculously) saved the unit. (The shop did apologize, seems the owner was out and had a different person "guarding things" who wasn't used to shipping models, and offered a replacement, but I did not make them replace or refund for only a damaged loco box. I did ask that, when he has someone else "guarding things" to either hold off on shipping, or give a packaging lesson firs however....)
My last "tall firs" (got that one right off the bat) order was replacement wheelsets for a P2K unit I was given that has the "cracked gear disease" they are notorious for, was shipped in a box, wrapped in bubbles wrapping, big enough to fit their book in!
I would definitely be calling "tall firs" and asking for a replacement unit, with a better packaging job, and sending those pictures as evidence of someone's "less than stellar" shipping skills.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
7j43kI do wish that all the bubble wrap (and still occasional popcorn) were replaced with something that I could toss into recycling. Like crumpled newspaper. Have any shippers actually tried the newspaper and found it failing? Or was it dumped because there was some new cutting-edge stuff?
Ed,
The proliferation of newspapers is not what it used to be - e.g. when we held newspaper drives to collect money for our elementary schools when I was a kid. Nowadays, newspapers are struggling to compete with the "up-to-the minute" internet and readership is down. So, some newspapers have chosen to pare down the size of their printed issues...or print them less often...or chosen to go digital.
Therefore, I think if shippers went back to using newspapers for packing, there wouldn't be enough "medium" to go around - by a long-shot.
Tom
tstageTherefore, I think if shippers went back to using newspapers for packing, there wouldn't be enough "medium" to go around - by a long-shot.
There are lots of kraft-paper alternatives. Krinkle Paper is like shredded excelsior (when was the last time you got a package filled with excelsior?)
And several types of paper padding:
https://tinyurl.com/ybywgpmm
And expandable wadding?
https://www.uline.com/Grp_39/Paper-Cushioning
There are alternatives. I had a package a while ago that the item was "stuck" between plies of a very light-tacky glue that left no residue but protected the item very well.
Cheers, Ed
I just received a locomotive from an eBay seller that went above and beyond. He:
Before the package arrived, the seller (w/2,900+ sales & 100% positive feedback) sent me an email to inform me the above and to mention that he also was a model railroader. My guess is that he's experienced what Aaron did recently and wanted to ensure that any of his buyers didn't also go through that same experience.
And the cost of S&H for the locomotive? <$10 for the nearly 1,200 mi trip.
gmpullman tstage Therefore, I think if shippers went back to using newspapers for packing, there wouldn't be enough "medium" to go around - by a long-shot. There are lots of kraft-paper alternatives. Krinkle Paper is like shredded excelsior (when was the last time you got a package filled with excelsior?) And several types of paper padding: https://tinyurl.com/ybywgpmm And expandable wadding? https://www.uline.com/Grp_39/Paper-Cushioning There are alternatives. I had a package a while ago that the item was "stuck" between plies of a very light-tacky glue that left no residue but protected the item very well. Cheers, Ed
tstage Therefore, I think if shippers went back to using newspapers for packing, there wouldn't be enough "medium" to go around - by a long-shot.
I agree, Ed. My point was that newspapers - once prolific and ubiquitous - is no longer either. Kraft paper does make a good alternative but would still likely cost more than newspaper, when people were trying to get rid of in the past.
Along those lines, I would be curious how much kraft paper compares in cost to bubble wrap and styrofoam peanuts...
tstageI agree, Ed. My point was that newspapers - once prolific and ubiquitous - is no longer either.
I lament the passing of the daily paper, too, Tom. We had three in Cleveland at one time. I remember touring the big presses when I had a Plain Dealer route myself. In high school I used to run the Linotype machine! Hot lead — yes indeed. I still use some movable type as HO car weights
tstageAlong those lines, I would be curious how much kraft paper compares in cost to bubble wrap and styrofoam peanuts...
I found bubblewrap at 9 cents a foot, 12" wide
and
newsprint (new) at 7 cents a sheet
I suspect a sheet of newsprint (20" x 30") bulks up bigger than a foot of bubblewrap. Since we're using both to fill up the void between product and box, newsprint would appear to be cheaper.
It helps that I live close enough to Vein Curled to go pick up the stuff at the store.
Joe Staten Island West
We still get a newspaper (from a nearby city) six days a week, and two free once-a-week local papers, too, so no shortage of packing paper here. We also have a very comprehensive weekly recycling programme, so there's really very little stuff left that's actual "garbage" - most weeks, there's not enough to bother putting it by the road.
gmpullmanIf I can help it I avoid purchases anytime near the Holidays. Often there are temporary workers, the order filling system is stretched thin...
You make a good point. I figured if anyone would pack something properly, it was Tall Firs! :)
7j43kHave any shippers actually tried the newspaper and found it failing? Or was it dumped because there was some new cutting-edge stuff?
I tried crumpled newspaper (from circulars sent in the mail) and it adds a LOT of weight, and I think that's the reason AirPak stuff is preferred -- especially for venders advertising free shipping. As it happens, I ran short of packing material and bought a pack of packing paper from a major chain retailer whose name rhymes with Tall Fart. I'm surprised how well it works, and the weight isn't too bad. I might stick with it.
7j43k, the UPS store I do business with gladly accepts packing peanuts, clean bubble wrap, and air packs, so recycling that material is no problem. I usually accumulate it in a lawn/leaf bag for each type and, if I need to pack something for shipment, the only cost is the actual shipping charge.
NHTXI usually accumulate it in a lawn/leaf bag for each type and, if I need to pack something for shipment, the only cost is the actual shipping charge.
I save all the packing material I receive, and when I get a bunch saved up, I send "care packages" to each of my girls.
None of it hits the landfill directly from my house, and my kids get smiles-in-the-mail from mom & dad.