I've been using Testor's solvent cement, but I've had problems with losing parts on a couple of Branchline kits I built. Should I be using something else? I assumed solvent was solvent, but are some brands better than others? Please enlighten me with your experiences. Thanks!
Aaron
I'm not sure if it's the cement or the different formulations of the plastic but I've had poor results using Testors and Tamiya solvent cements on different brand kits.
I've been using MEK which is the active ingredient in most of those solvents and have found it works well on all manufacturer's kits and all of the strip and sheet styrene I use.
The local Lowes has a MEK substitute but I found the real stuff at Ace Hardware. About $11 bought a quart.
Jeff White
Alma, IL
I have used Testors liquid model cement on 99% of my plastic-to-plastic joints for decades. If it is applied to both surfaces, let sit for 5 seconds, then reapply to one of the surfaces, it has a near 100% success rate.
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Using pure MEK sounds very dangerous to me.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Autonerd I've been using Testor's solvent cement, but I've had problems with losing parts on a couple of Branchline kits I built. Should I be using something else? I assumed solvent was solvent, but are some brands better than others? Please enlighten me with your experiences. Thanks! Aaron
I would say that all solvents are different.
They are all basically soups made up of mixtures of MEK, methylene chloride, and acetone. And each manufacturer has its own secret formula for the relative proportions.
I used Testors once at the club. It did not work very well at all on the DPM building I was assembling. I suspect the problem was that the bottle was old, possibly left uncapped for who knows how long, and one or more of the secret ingredients evaporated to less-than-satisfactory levels.
Nowadays, I use Plastruct Bondene and Plastic Weld. New bottles, kept tightly capped, two-ounce or four-ounce size. I've had no problems on a variety of projects of all sizes using ABS, styrene, or resin.
Somebody posted a link to the official government EPA product safety document showing the exact formulas for these solvents so that a big batch could be made up using Ace Hardware or Home Depot bulk supplies, but I never got around to acting on that info.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
I've used MEK for styrene for decades, ever since the members of the Grandt family endorsed it. It works great: seeps in, flashes out quickly. Also seeps under your fingertips.
I don't view it as dangerous at the levels and durations that I use (low, infrequent).
One thing I did find out about MEK. It, like alcohol, will absorb water out of the air. And it will eventually become useless. Yes, I found it out by unintentional experiment. That MIGHT also be true of other solvents.
Ed
I use MEK which I buy at the paint departments of the local big box stores. I bought a quart for $5 some time ago. It ought last me the rest of my life. It sucks right into joints by capillary action, dries fast, and gives a good strong joint.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I believe the different commercial brands do involve different recipes for their solvent cements - some are said to mix in a quantity of styrene into the solvent and others have methylene chloride, and others are more pure MEK. Even within brands there are different lines for different purposes, witness Plastruct's Bondene versus their Plastic Weld verses their Weldene.
Obviously all solvents are dangerous and have to be treated with respect.
It seeems there are also different recipes for "styene" plastic out there and that might be one thing that accounts for greater or lesser success with this or that cement (I recall accounts on these forums of guys who put the Kato N scale business car into paint stripper only to have the plastic become totally brittle and disintegrate).
And mold release, dirt, and body oils can also have an adverse effect on adhesion and success with solvent based cements.
I watched a Miles Hale video about how to assemble and detail a basic Design Preservation Models structure kit, and Hale used Faller's Super Expert cement, which comes in a bottle and applies with a long thin metal tube. I have had good luck with it except for the tube becoming gunked up from time to time. For all I know it is just an expensive way to buy MEK but it works for me.
Dave Nelson
AutonerdI've been using Testor's solvent cement, but I've had problems with losing parts on a couple of Branchline kits I built.
dknelsonIt seeems there are also different recipes for "styene" plastic out there and that might be one thing that accounts for greater or lesser success with this or that cement
Is it possible that the parts you are having trouble with are made of "Slippery Engineering Plastic" aka Thermoplastic, POM, Delrin, Acetal, Celcon?
Solvent will not bond to these. I have used canopy cement (a type of PVA) or the contact cement such as Pliobond or Walthers Goo in very sparing amounts.
Since the demise of one of my favorites, Tenax 7R, I have experimented with a dozen or so commercial formulations and also made several batches of my own "soup". They are all successful to varying degrees and each one has properties that I have learned to use to my advantage. Some are "hot" with a very fast bonding action and others are slower allowing for a little adjustment before setting. I'm talking seconds here. The slower ones are good for larger joints like wall sections and the like.
Also, cleaning any paint away from the joint area is a necessity for the best bond.
Good Luck, Ed
I have used Tamiya's Extra Thin Cement for years with great success. However, as Ed suggests, if you are not bonding styrene or ABS it won't work. If it can't dissolve the surface it can't form a bond.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
gmpullmanAlso, cleaning any paint away from the joint area is a necessity for the best bond.
Absolutely true.
This was my biggest problem when it came to assembling Proto 2000 "undecorated" kits. They were actually primed already, and all that primer had to be cleaned off of the plastic in order to get a good adhesive joint.
gmpullmanIs it possible that the parts you are having trouble with are made of "Slippery Engineering Plastic" aka Thermoplastic, POM, Delrin, Acetal, Celcon?
Anything's possible. :) These are Branchline kits, and the parts falling off are body details, which I don't think are slippery bits.
But...
Among the things pointed out here: I haven't been great about sanding off any paint, and the bottle is rather old. I think these are two good places to start!
Thanks, everyone, for your help and advice. Next kit: New bottle (maybe I'll try Tamiya) and I'll be sure to clean all mating surfaces.
When my original bottle of Testor's cement ran out, about 100 years ago, I bought a gallon of lacquer thinner, and, over the years, many more gallons. It worked better than the Testors, but was also useful for thinning the paints of those days (Floquil, Scalecoat, Accupaint, etc.), cleaning brushes and airbrushes, regardless of paint type, and was way more economical. Several years ago, the formula for most lacquer thinner changed. It still worked well for thinning paint or cleaning stuff, but was absolutely useless as a cement for styrene (I have since found some that seems to work). However, I switched over to MEK, also in gallon cans. It's more expensive than lacquer thinner, but works as well as the old lacquer thinner did. It does, however, evapourate a little faster than I'd prefer. While a gallon of MEK runs around $40.00 here, it's still cheaper than the same quantity of any of the similar hobby-related products. For those not needing large quantities, I believe that it's also available in quarts or litres.I decant mine into that ancient Testor's bottle, with the brush-in-cap.
Wayne
Testor's liquid cement has always been a surface adhesive.....not a weld type. Aimed at the younger crowd of modelers without the need to worry about having too much volatile chemical ingredients. Lightly sanded using any type of adhesive is always the sure way for a good bond, for it breaks up the surface tension of the material and gives the adhesive a head start so to speak. When using a plastic weld type adhesive...sanding parts to be joined helps tremendously in the capillary action and most all solvent will go where the parts were sanded, eliminating smudges. Sanding is not all that time consuming.......contrary to what people think.
Take Care!
Frank
zstripe Testor's liquid cement has always been a surface adhesive.....not a weld type. Aimed at the younger crowd of modelers without the need to worry about having too much volatile chemical ingredients. Lightly sanded using any type of adhesive is always the sure way for a good bond, for it breaks up the surface tension of the material and gives the adhesive a head start so to speak. When using a plastic weld type adhesive...sanding parts to be joined helps tremendously in the capillary action and most all solvent will go where the parts were sanded, eliminating smudges. Sanding is not all that time consuming.......contrary to what people think. Take Care! Frank
Rich
Alton Junction
I don't doubt a bit that sanding can be necessary for bonding some plastics with some solvents.
But when bonding Evergreen plastic using MEK, nope.
I just finished modifying some Eastern Car Works trucks by glueing Evergreen to the back of the sideframes. No sanding. I added "bolster tabs". No sanding. I added a riser to the bolster. No sanding.
If your glueing efforts aren't working out, you have multiple options to explore, most stated in this topic.
7j43k I don't doubt a bit that sanding can be necessary for bonding some plastics with some solvents. But when bonding Evergreen plastic using MEK, nope. I just finished modifying some Eastern Car Works trucks by glueing Evergreen to the back of the sideframes. No sanding. I added "bolster tabs". No sanding. I added a riser to the bolster. No sanding. If your glueing efforts aren't working out, you have multiple options to explore, most stated in this topic. Ed
Big differance in using an agressive weld type adhesive than what the OP was using with the Testors surface adhesive.
I use a lot of Evergreen styrene and ABS sheets that have been laminated with exterior embosed sheets, but I still lightly sand both pieces for a uniform spread of the solvent. In My case I use Plaststruct Plastic Weld which contains MEK. When laminating sheets together with MEK, if the solvent is not put on evenly, it will melt thin sheets and distort them and you will wind up with some parts that are warped, but look ok until assembly........been doing this a loooooong time with Many adhesives.......not just Train goodies.
dstarr I use MEK which I buy at the paint departments of the local big box stores. I bought a quart for $5 some time ago. It ought last me the rest of my life. It sucks right into joints by capillary action, dries fast, and gives a good strong joint.
I do the same. Economy (it's much cheaper than model glue) and necessity (no local hobby shops) are why I use MEK.
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Some years ago if I wanted quick action I used MEK. Slower action, I used a commercial product but forgot the name. Been some years. I remember it was a little thicker solution.
I first found out about MEK when I started wiring submarine periscopes in 1965. Interesting solvent. Found out about CA glue also.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 Some years ago if I wanted quick action I used MEK. Slower action, I used a commercial product but forgot the name. Been some years. I remember it was a little thicker solution. I first found out about MEK when I started wiring submarine periscopes in 1965. Interesting solvent. Found out about CA glue also. Rich
Submarine periscopes are wired with MEK? I didn't know that MEK was conductive. I think I'd perfer to use a suitcase connector.
maxman richg1998 Some years ago if I wanted quick action I used MEK. Slower action, I used a commercial product but forgot the name. Been some years. I remember it was a little thicker solution. I first found out about MEK when I started wiring submarine periscopes in 1965. Interesting solvent. Found out about CA glue also. Rich Submarine periscopes are wired with MEK? I didn't know that MEK was conductive. I think I'd perfer to use a suitcase connector.
I did not say that. I said I started working with MEK and CA.
The company manufactured other optical devices also. MEK and CA required during manufacturing.
Grow up.
I mentioned above that I use MEK to bond plastic. What I forgot to mention is that glass "nip" bottles make excellent containers for solvents. They are the perfect size to work with, and can be sealed up tight with the twist-on cap.
OK, I had to look that up. Never heard of "nip" bottles. Nice idea.
I saved the "store bought" solvent bottles, with the little brush cap, refill as needed.
Mike.
My You Tube
richg1998 I did not say that. I said I started working with MEK and CA.
Actually what you said was:
richg1998I first found out about MEK when I started wiring submarine periscopes in 1965.
I was just curious how MEK was used with wiring.
richg1998Grow up
Since this is the start of a new year, I'll just let this pass and not be upset. You know that MEK is not used for wiring, I know MEK is not used for wiring, and probably everyone else knows MEK is not used for wiring.
I was just trying to participate by making a humorous (or so I thought ) statement. Maybe I should have included a couple of those things to give the humor impaired folks a hint.