Dave,
I have built lots of the P2K tank cars. The most time consuming part is cutting out the parts from the sprues...watch out for the tank hand rail and the brake line castings - they are the most prone to breakage. I also found it easier to weather the tank before I completely assembeld the cars.
Have fun...
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
tstageGo for the Proto 2000 tank car kit - if you have one, Dave. IIRC, that was my 3rd kit after two Accurail kits and it took me 8 hours to assemble. The 2nd one only took me 4-5 hours and I've assembled close to a dozen overall. The most challenging for me is removing the more delicate parts and minimizing breakage. I'll look forward to hearing what you settle on, Dave.
Just to close the loop on this thread I started -- well, as you can see a moderator of the forums "ordered" me to do the Proto2000 tank car (which I have in a "fuel service" version custom painted for the C&NW Historical Society -- two kits, two numbers). So I am nothing if not obedient to moderators. Interestingly the instructions tell you NOT to use sprue nippers for the most fragile parts (the plastic grab irons) but rather a fresh single edged razor blade or a fresh #11 blade heated. I am in the early stages but I would say it meets my definition of a challenging kit. I know for some kits LifeLike P2K eventually replaced some of the more fragile parts with metal and as we know Doctor Wayne routinely replaces such parts with metal on his kitbashes. But for this New Year's tradition of mine I do what I can to build at least one example of a kit exactly as set forth by the manufacturer.
Dave Nelson
hon30critter Lone Wolf and Santa Fe I have a Roundhouse 3 in 1 craft kit which I think is pretty challenging. I have been avoiding building the Jordan Spreader part of the kit because it seems pretty difficult. It is basically a metal chassis and wheels and blue print instructions for the rest which you have to make from scratch. I built one a few years ago and I thought it was a lot of fun. If I was building it today I would be able to do a better job on the details, especially after seeing the details on doctorwayne's spreader. Dave
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe I have a Roundhouse 3 in 1 craft kit which I think is pretty challenging. I have been avoiding building the Jordan Spreader part of the kit because it seems pretty difficult. It is basically a metal chassis and wheels and blue print instructions for the rest which you have to make from scratch.
I built one a few years ago and I thought it was a lot of fun. If I was building it today I would be able to do a better job on the details, especially after seeing the details on doctorwayne's spreader.
Dave
Dave, you did a pretty nice job. I have seen Doctor Waynes model also and it was also very nice. I think I might work on mine this year.
doctorwayne If you insist on using the plastic detail parts.... Having fat fingures doesn't help either! Cheers, the Bear.
doctorwayne If you insist on using the plastic detail parts....
Having fat fingures doesn't help either!
Cheers, the Bear.
Yeah!........along with those long nails/claws.........not to mention, being upside down.....
Take Care!
Frank
doctorwayneIf you insist on using the plastic detail parts....
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Kits from Intermountain, Red Caboose, and Proto2000 are all easier to build if you simply toss those plastic grabirons and sill steps as soon as you open the box. Replacing them with metal ones, even if you need to fabricate them yourself, is easy, and the finished product will look better...
Intermountain, one of two similar cars, from undecorated kits. Lettering is mostly from two different Champ sets,, with bits from Microscale and C&BT Shops...
Proto2000 tankcar, with metal grabs and sill steps. Lettering is C-D-S dry transfers...
...ditto...
This one is a Proto2000 pre-production sample kit provided to a large LHS in southern Ontario (now closed). I found it on their "used" table for $2.00. It was in a plain clear plastic bag, unpainted, with no trucks and no instructions, and no indication of the manufacturer....
I thought it to be generally well-done, but the grabirons and sill steps were overly thick, even unpainted, so I tossed them. When the kits later appeared in the same store, I recognised the connection immediately, but couldn't afford to buy them. It didn't take too long before partially-built kits (tank cars, gondolas, and stock cars) often marred by excessive amounts of ca on the body shells in the areas where grabirons were to be installed, begin to appear on the same "used" table, at bargain prices (although not as cheap as the first one). I also picked up some with odd roadnames or paint colours (prototypical, I later learned, but very unlikely to be found around here), and simply stripped the paint and lettering and re-did them for my own freelanced road. I got 8 or 10 Proto gondolas for four or five bucks apiece...
....Pollyscale paint, with custom dry transfer lettering from C-D-S.
When the r-t-r Proto2000 cars appeared (even less affordable for me), the kits languished on the shelves for ages, then one day, went on sale for six or seven bucks apiece. It was very unusual for this store to have sales like this, so I bought quite a few...mostly tank cars and stock cars.
Not too long ago, a friend bought a Proto2000 50' automobile car at a train show. It had been built from a kit, and he was quite pleased with his find until he got it home and took a look at it while wearing his Optivisor. It had a BLT date considerably too new for his late '20s/early '30s layout, so he offered it to me. I offered to change the built date, but he insisted that I have it.Well, when he brought it over, it was considerably worse than what he had noticed: there was ca all over the areas where the previous owner had attempted to install the ladders and grabirons, the floor was severely warped, and one of the doors somewhat damaged. The brake gear and roofwalk was a mess, too. I had to scrap the ladders and grabs, replacing the ladders with ones from my "parts department", and the grabs and sill steps with metal ones. I added a new "wood" roofwalk using strip styrene. Straightening the floor took quite a bit of interior bracing with the floor clamped to a straightedge, and to keep it straight, the floor is screwed in place. Surprisingly, I was able to scrape the excess ca from the car's sides and roof, without damaging the paint.
I also added storage tubes for the chains used with the Evans auto racks, and a white stripe on the car's doors showing that it's so-equipped, then changed the BLT and the NEW weight dates to June 1937...
Here's a Red Caboose undecorated kit, with metal grabs and sill steps. I have several of these, all with lettering from Champ...
Another Red Caboose car, one of several of their X-29s on my layout. This one was re-worked fairly extensively to match a particular car still in existence, mostly involving the brake gear and express-service schedule of sill steps and grabirons. I did three cars with this number, one, lettered for the late '40s, as a retirement gift for a good friend who was the GM of the shortline which owned the car, one lettered for the mid-'50s for another good friend, who helped finance the project, and another for myself, lettered to suit my layout's late '30s era.
...lettering is from Champ...
If you insist on using the plastic detail parts, use a suitably-sized drill bit in your pin vise to enlarge the mounting holes to match the size of the mounting pins on the detail parts. Most of the frustration, especially for painted and lettered cars, is that the paint application has decreased the diameter of the holes just enough that the pins won't quite fit. If you drill right through the car's sides and ends, you can then apply the cement from the inside of the car, with less chance of marring the exterior.
Wayne
dti406 To me Branchline (now Atlas) and Intermountain kits are the equivalent to old Athearn Blue Box kits. Rick Jesionowski
To me Branchline (now Atlas) and Intermountain kits are the equivalent to old Athearn Blue Box kits.
Rick Jesionowski
??? ??? Are you talking about the "Blueprint Series" Branchline kits, Rick? Those have as many detail parts at the Proto 2000 kits. And I would rank the Intermountain kits way above Athearn BBs and somewhere between Branchline's "Blueprint Series" and their "Yardmaster Series".
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Bubbytrains Edit: I just remembered the Front Range centerbeam. I managed to get it together but I considered it a failure since I didn’t like how it looked. That was many years ago, so I don’t know if it was my fault or if it was just a lousy kit.
Edit: I just remembered the Front Range centerbeam. I managed to get it together but I considered it a failure since I didn’t like how it looked. That was many years ago, so I don’t know if it was my fault or if it was just a lousy kit.
Alan it was just a lousy kit, nothing fit together many were dumped when Exactrail brought theirs out.
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
I need to finish my Rail Yard Models Hot Coil Car and PC G47 Gondola along with a Sunshine PRR X37 Boxcar before continuing on any more other kits.
Interesting post, Dave.
Lately I‘ve had the itch to put together a challenging kit. It’s been a while since my last attempt. I’ve had my eye on doing a Proto 2K kit, but I’m wary of the fragile grabs. These kits seem to be plentiful and going for relatively inexpensive prices on Ebay.
I have successfully completed: Intermountain boxcars and a 2-bay covered hopper; a Red Caboose drop-bottom gon; Tichy tank car; Branchline Berwick boxcar; and an MDC rotary snowplow kitbash kit.
I failed miserably at a Funaro and Camerlengo resin caboose kit. I ended up just adding the parts to my junk drawer.
The Amherst Train Show is coming up and I’m sure there will be some great deals on some of these ”old” kits.
I’ve got another month to think about it!
Alan
Bubbytrains
Lone Wolf and Santa FeI have a Roundhouse 3 in 1 craft kit which I think is pretty challenging. I have been avoiding building the Jordan Spreader part of the kit because it seems pretty difficult. It is basically a metal chassis and wheels and blue print instructions for the rest which you have to make from scratch.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I have a Roundhouse 3 in 1 craft kit which I think is pretty challenging. I have been avoiding building the Jordan Spreader part of the kit because it seems pretty difficult. It is basically a metal chassis and wheels and blue print instructions for the rest which you have to make from scratch. Maybe this winter I will work on it. I have been stocking up on the parts I need for it. Quote from the box: “Kit Bashing” is necessary and the purchase of some construction components from other manufacturers is needed.
I've had this laserkit of the Pennsy's Harris Tower on my TBB shelf for too many years! I think I'm ready to tackle it THIS New Year! The weather has actually been too nice to hunker-down in the "laboratory" of model-making.
PRR_Harris2 by Edmund, on Flickr
I remember seeing Harris tower on some of my rides on the "Broadway" back in the late Penn-Central/early Amtrak days. The tower is still standing and being preserved by the NRHS Harrisburg Chapter.
I often use a resin or laser cut car kit or Proto freight car kit as a little segue between "projects".
Fun Stuff indeed!
Be sure to post photos of your progress in the weekend Photo Fun thread!
Cheers, Ed
I try to build one resin freight car kit every month.
.
In January it will be a Smokey Mountain Models Seaboard Coast Line round roof boxcar.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The Tangent tank cars are fairly complex, but nicely-done kits. I thought the order of some of the assembly was better done in a manner other than suggested in the instructions, though, and I also fabricated a couple of details to replace ones from the kit which I felt were a bit too clunky...
The lettering was the tedious part, with 168 individual pieces of decal.
I'm currently working on four modified Tichy flatcars which I'm converting to gondolas, loosely-based on a small class of cars in some prototype photos...
...and likewise for this cinder car, which is working out to a fairly close representation of its prototype. I'll be lettering it for one of my freelanced roads, though...
I find that pushing one's limits is good in many ways, but it also is a curse in that it's often difficult to not continue in that same vein, or at least attempt to do so, even when your abilities are not what they once may have been.
I was looking for a few old Type 21 tank cars. I found 3 of the Protos on eBay, built up and new in the box, for less than kit price. I agree they are very fine models.
They were advertised as part of an estate sale, so I hope my layout is worthy of the late owner's goals.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
kasskaboose The kit that gave me the most trouble are Walthers AA or LPG whale belly tank cars. They are nice looking but do require quite a number of adjustments. One of them is scratch building grab irons.
The kit that gave me the most trouble are Walthers AA or LPG whale belly tank cars. They are nice looking but do require quite a number of adjustments. One of them is scratch building grab irons.
I still have one which is unfinished; a white Walthers Proco 26,000 gal tank car kit. It's on the "some day" shelf. It inspired me to stick with only RTR cars if buying Walthers tank cars since obtaining it.
I don't have any time to build kits for the for-see-able future so I'm envious of you who actually have "time" to work on kits.
Other difficult kits I have tackled in the past include:
- Front Range Centerbeam flat car (it did get fully assembled but it was prepainted in the wrong color (dark blue) so I had to airbrush it black. I sold it a couple years ago - it simply needed a few parts reattached and decals added.)
When compared to the ExactRail Centerbeam, the Front Range were a little larger and taller.
- Eel River 61' PC&F "beer" box car - assembled from flat parts. I actually didn't find it to be all that difficult but someone has several for sale on Ebay right now which look horrible - I can't see how they would ever sell.
I found the Proto 2000 models to be somewhat challening due to the tiny and fragile parts. Buying a pair of sprue nippers did help make it easier to get all the parts off the sprues with minimal breakage. The 50' auto box car (pictured below) required careful cutting of the bottom side sill to match the profile for that version.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Not exactly a difficult kit, but, I have a few I've assembled and painted, I just have to finish the decals, which is always my struggle.
I have 3 cardboard flats of cars that await decals.
Now that I have reconfigured and enlarged my work area, it's time to get to work.
Happy New Year!
Mike.
My You Tube
Go for the Proto 2000 tank car kit - if you have one, Dave. IIRC, that was my 3rd kit after two Accurail kits and it took me 8 hours to assemble. The 2nd one only took me 4-5 hours and I've assembled close to a dozen overall. The most challenging for me is removing the more delicate parts and minimizing breakage.
I'll look forward to hearing what you settle on, Dave. I have several projects "in process". Some require warmer weather to finish up painting. Others require mimicking decals that do not exist, or detail parts that need to be ordered. I finished replacing broken bottom stirrups on 4 or 5 Proto 2000 50' boxcars with A-Line metal stirrups. I also have a Proto 2000 tank car that needs a new brake wheel and vertical rod.
Yep, there's always some sort of project that needs to be done when you're a MRRer...
I'm retired now, but back in the day I used to reserve blocks of time for craftsman structure kits or things like Tichy flatcars with detailed brake gear and individually applied stake pockets.
The kits were starting points, as I like to detail, decal and weather pretty much everything I build. A simple four walls and a roof structure will typically take a month, with painting, illumination and a simple detailed interior
One of my little traditions is to pick out a difficult or challenging rolling stock kit off the TBB shelf ("To Be Built") at New Years just so I start the year with a feeling of accomplishment, regardless of how unproductive the whole rest of the year goes.
Of course "difficult" and "challenging" can be in the eye of the beholder -- are the demands of dexterity, or just patience, for example. Athearn, Bowser, Accurail, MDC/Roundhouse -- they don't count, of course. (The Accurail triple deck autorack is finicky but not really difficult, although there is a fine line between those concepts). An old Varney or Athearn metal kit can push the finicky aspect towards challenging or difficult, as can an old Model Die Casting metal kit for ore cars. Old LBF and McKeen kits are not difficult per se, but are flawed and thus test my patience, so in that sense are challenging. Intermountain, Red Caboose, IMWX (a predecessor to Intermountain or Red Caboose) and some Branchline and Tichy plastic kits are what I would call difficult or challenging, and have been my projects on prior years' New Years, although I know some scoff and say they are easy kits. Not for me. The early LifeLike Proto2000 freight car kits. The late Don Cook, a Master Model Railroader of the NMRA and a fine scratchbuilder once told me the Proto2000 tank car kits were the most difficult he had built (and his were perfect). Unbuilt examples of all of those are on the shelves waiting to be attacked.
I have just been completing an old Pacific HO/Golden Spike (Silver Streak) mechanical reefer kit: plastic but with separate ends, sides, roof and complete brake rodding and piping and scads of detail parts. They somewhat resemble the Kurtz Kraft boxcar kits of the 1950s which were the first "plastic yet craftsman" kits (at a time when the hobby veterans refused to believe anything good about plastic, so the line failed). The original early 1960s Model Railroader review of that Pacific HO kit speculated that perhaps few modelers would have the patience for the kit and I see what they mean. One reason is some mistakes in the kit parts (which the review noted); another is that in my view the instructions put some steps in the wrong order. Even the instructions admit that few modelers would be capable of drilling as many holes in the very small airbrake valve casting as their instructions call for. I tried. I'd work on that kit until I got angry and needed to step away (or until a small detail part went flying somewhere and could not be found, which was the subject of another thread I started).
So the Pacific HO/Golden Spike/Silver Streak qualifies as difficult or challenging particularly if you install the complete brake piping and rodding. I have another one in its box and should probably make that my New Year's project particularly as I now have an annotated instruction sheet and could do a much better job with it with my memory fresh. But somehow that would feel like cheating.
Meanwhile I have perhaps 2 dozen cars marked "cushion underframe" that clearly lack a cushion underframe coupler pocket so those are a project, simple but boring. They also lack ACI labels. I have perhaps ten cars which have the same number as another of the same car on the shelves -- those need to be attended to. Also boring. I have three kitbashing residential structure kit projects all going on at once. No shortage of stuff to do in other words.
But by Friday I "need" to settle on a difficult/challenging rolling stock kit to keep the tradition alive. After all this is the season for traditions, right?