train lengths

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by GrandFunkRailroad

I am doing a single track mainline, but have toyed with the idea of a double track mainline. I am afraid of squuzing too much track in and taking away from the operation & fun. The Layout is 15 X 24... I have one crossing and was thinking of double tracking that, but now I think double track the mainline, then have the crossing to make it interesting with operation,, could call it COnfusion Junction[;)]

any thoughts????

If your layout is 15x24, why wouldn't you double track it!? That's a huge layout. My layout is 5x9 and I have a double track main. It doesn't take away fun, it adds more![:)]

Hell, with that much space, you could double track and double deck!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GrandFunkRailroad

I am doing a single track mainline, but have toyed with the idea of a double track mainline. I am afraid of squuzing too much track in and taking away from the operation & fun. The Layout is 15 X 24... I have one crossing and was thinking of double tracking that, but now I think double track the mainline, then have the crossing to make it interesting with operation,, could call it COnfusion Junction[;)]

any thoughts????

If your layout is 15x24, why wouldn't you double track it!? That's a huge layout. My layout is 5x9 and I have a double track main. It doesn't take away fun, it adds more![:)]

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GrandFunkRailroad

I was curious on how what lengths I should have for my trains on the layout when it is done. Also this would help me decide how big my passing sidings will be. My layout is an along the wall/island/walk in it is about 15 X 22. I would like to run a few double engines on some. So all the advice would help!!![8D]

thanks
Mike

Under the assumption you are in HO, let me toss out the following:

A 40 foot car is about 6" long.

A 50 foot car is about 7" long

An 85 foot passenger car is approximately 12" long.

A 4 axle diesel like an F-7 or GP-9 is about 7" long.

An ALCO PA is approximately 9" long while an EMD E unit is about 10" long. 2 E units are roughly equivalent in length to 3 F units.

Most cabooses are from 4-5" long.

When I figure out train lengths, I use a 50/50 mix of 40-50' cars for train length calculations to allow some slack since my era is steam/diesel transition.

For instance, 3 F units pulling a 20 car freight train of the above mix with a caboose would be 21 + 70 + 60 + 5 inches long or 156" (13 feet). IOW, you'd need passing tracks of at least 13 feet between clearance points to accommodate such a train. The same 13 feet would allow the use of 2 E units and 10-11 passenger cars of 85 foot length with no problem.

Since you didn't specify the era, I only used diesels as an example. However, the longest steam locomotive ever manufactured was the UP Big Boy, which scales out to about 18" give or take a tad in HO scale.

One thing you want to avoid (IMHO) are train lengths that kind of overwhelm your layout.

I'm going to be building a model of the SP's Monterey Branch in the 1940's. That means it will be all steam. To maintain prototype accuracy, I'm limited to locomotives of no more than 70 scale feet. in length (just short of 10" in HO scale). I had decided to limit freight trains to 15 cars. In one of those serendipitous events, I located some Sanborn fire insurance maps for Cannery Row. The one passing siding there scaled out to about 750' between clearance points. Allowing 105' for loco and caboose, that leaves me 645' for freight cars, which scales out to 14 cars if a half of them are 50 footers and the rest 40 footers. Close enough.

Andre

Andre

[trolleyboy]

Hi in my experience you need to customize your train length to your available siding or passing track space. When I was aclub layout guy we had a single track mainline with 4 strategically located passing sideings (ok just outside of each town for switching purposes) the longest one was 20' so since we were talking 40-50 foot cars max (50's era)and the railroad rules was two loco's and caboose it was generally max of twenty cars most locals were a dozen cars again this is due to switching in towns we were not supposed to block the streets or mainline afterall. hopr this helps. TB

[camarokid]

At 15' x 24' you should be able to conceal the double track somewhat. If you haven't started laying track, you still have time to draw some extra plans to see what you can come up with. It will only be Confusion Junction when you take your eyes off of it. Believe me, I know. The results are not pleasing to the eye. Take your time planning and you shouldn't have any problems. Enjoy the trip to better things on your railroad.
Archie

[streettrains]

I am doing a single track mainline, but have toyed with the idea of a double track mainline. I am afraid of squuzing too much track in and taking away from the operation & fun. The Layout is 15 X 24... I have one crossing and was thinking of double tracking that, but now I think double track the mainline, then have the crossing to make it interesting with operation,, could call it COnfusion Junction[;)]

any thoughts????

[Anonymous]

I ran some trains of different lengths today. There was a train of 8 cars that made me feel like I got total control and there will be no problems "pushing" them cars. They wont derail forwards or backwards.

I then spent about 40 minutes assembling a monster 40 car freight backed by a double head set of steamers in a Consist. It seemed to suck up the entire railroad to marshal this very big train. I was able to drive it 6 feet. Where 4 seperate problems developed in the entire train at different locations.

Trouble shooting these 4 issues (derailment, too close to a signal, short on front coupler of helper and freight cars that were not properly weighted to take the tension of all the others.) took another 40 minutes.

At the end of the 3rd hour I had three seperate trains of 12-20 cars that managed to travel the entire railroad in both directions rather trouble free.

I think I found my magic number.. instead of one monster train, dispatch two or three.

However everyone should run a long train at least one time in the hobby if for no other reason than to "for the fun of it"

Happy new year!

[Anonymous]

the way i run my layout is as follows: all trains run on the double track main between yards and industries. There are usually at least 4 trains running at once though so it stays interesting. Usually 2 trains are "through trains" I call them and just run around the layout. One is a long freight sometimes almost 90 cars, the other is the amtrak. The remaining 2 trains are locals, they dont run all the time but when they are not running the engines are usually switching in the yards. There are 2 crossovers between the 2 mains and i usually try to keep westbound trains on the westbound main and eastbound trains on the eastbound main. Sometimes I like to make it interesting though or I just cant get to a crossover. In the event that happens, There is an 8' siding near the coal mine. keep in mind your siding needs only to be as long as the shortest train you are running. The long one can keep the main.

Hope this is of some use.

[Anonymous]

30 standard-length freight cars, or ~18 89-footers, has always privided me with trains that look reasonably long, but still fit on my HO layout. I design mainline trackage to have as many curves as possible, to create the illusion of a longer train.

[Anonymous]

the length of trains are governed by many things. the size of the layout,the way you operate, how many industries you have etc. if you just like to run trains then the length of a train is limited only by the size of your curves and the percentage of your grades. if you operate with a certain goal in mind,then the size of your trains will vary greatley. i operate with a card fowarding system, which means trains will vary from 6 or 7 cars with one engine to 20 to 30 cars with as many as 4 engines.

good luck
santa fe fan

[Anonymous]

It varies for scale but i make the law of 10 cars for 6 ft give or take for HO.[^][^]

[Anonymous]

As far as double-heading, that can be justified by running older diesels on a local. Two units are dispatched regardless of tonnage in case one of the oldies conks out! MY LL P2Ks can haul 50 cars with 2 SDs or 3GPs no problem. The lengths of your sidings should determine train lengths. Don't go with the most you can pull, but with what looks right on your layout. I'm guessing from other posts that you are HO scale. Thats what my 10' X 20' layout is. I have a double tracked mainline so I can run whatever length I want. I do have a single track bottle-neck over a drawbrridge to keep things interesting

[streettrains]

when I saw the lap siding drawing in the Book realisitic Operation, I thought that would be a fun thing to operate on my layout. So once again it goes back to how long will the biggest trains be,,,,

[Fergmiester]

I've run upto 70+ behind my Allegheny and up a 5% grade. Am I bragging? No, I'm warning as long consists eventually end in a disaster befitting of CNN coverage. I have found 40 car max is my best fotr the heavy haulers such as my FEF-3 or Allegheny. If I'm using other power either 2-8-4's,r2-8-2's or double headers then 25 cars are the max. Chances are if your hauling two consists on the same track and in different directions you can always give the Heavy the go ahead and side the short consist.

Fergie

[streettrains]

Yeah, thinking that some medium trains would look better and might be able to run more and do more.....

[jrbernier]

I run 2 engines, 12 cars, and a caboose - that is the size of my staging tracks/sidings! I would setup some trains and measure them to see what looks right, then make your decision about train lengths. Of course you may like long trains, but you layout size will not permit them!

Jim Bernier

[streettrains]

how would the train look if there was lets say 2 sd70's hooked up or would one just not look right?

[cefinkjr]

Train Lengths: Longer = Better [:)]

OTOH, somebody (I think it was the late John Armstrong) once pointed out that more than about 10' of train - regardless of scale is wasted. His point was that, because of average peripheral vision limits, the average modeler can only actually see about 8' of train at any one time (from normal close viewing distances). As long as you can't see both ends at the same time, a train is 'long' (kind of like some aboriginal peoples having no word except 'many' for anything over 20).

Most folks will also agree that a train gets longer and longer as it passes through scenery that partly blocks your view of the train. The point here is that it's all in your perception.

[2c]

Chuck

[streettrains]

Hey thanks, I like the idea of an 8-9ft train/siding. I will have a few long frieghts & some passengers along with the Housatonic local...


now next would be to ask other stuff.. but not in this post!!!! *LOL*

[Anonymous]

I usually keep my train lengths to about 15 cars. A friend's layout with 3% grades determines it due to the pulling power of my Broadway engines. I can go 20 cars in a overload or 26 cars with a helper on double head and still be able to start and stop.

The train reaches near 18 feet that is significant when you are trying to get past another train on a siding. The biggest I have seen is about 30+ cars. I would hate to be the yard master to have to break that one up on a 22 car yard.

[twhite]

Well, I don't know if this helps or not, but my layout is 25x25 around the wall with islands, 34" minimum radius, 2.4% maximum gradient, and I like to run about 20-30 cars average, maybe 7-10 on a local freight, 7-10 on passenger. I'll usually double-head my non-articulated steam power on a longer train, or sometimes hitch up a smaller loco as helper for my articulateds--I'm 100% steam by the way--. I run a non-parallel double track mainline similar to the Espee Donner Pass line between Rocklin and Colfax, CA, so I only have 1 passing track on the eastbound main, which holds about 25 cars in case I want to have a runaround. I think the length of the trains pretty much depends on what looks good to you, and what you're comfortable with. From the size of your layout, I'd say you could run some relatively long trains. One thing I've found, the larger the scale, the less cars it takes to make a train look long. In N scale, for instance, a 40-50 car train looks really long, but you can do the same thing in HO with less cars (ever notice how LONG a G-scale train looks at ten cars?). I can run a 25-car reefer block and to me at least, it looks like a full-size train.
Tom

[Don Gibson]

train lengths will be dictated by 1. size of your layout 2. passing sidings.
You do what your space allows.

Figure 12" per 80' passenger and 9" per engine. Not absolute, but close enough.

I have an 8' passing siding with #6 switches, but switches take almost half, so the 8' holds 4-5 cars + 1 engine, 12 feet would be much better.

[Anonymous]

I once saw a "train" consisting of two SD-9s back to back and a wide vision caboose. This was on the BN between Norton and Oberlin in Kansas. It's former CB&Q trackage some some of us in the hobby back then referred to it as "The Oberlin Zephyr". Since Norton had seen service from the Rock Island at one time we also called it, The Norton Rocket". I belief the two SDs were headed to Oberlin to pick up several covered hoppers loaded with wheat. The double heading saved the crew from having to use the crude and shaky turntable at Oberlin to turn one lone locomotive. In the late 80s ex Frisco GP-38s began to show up on that line.

[Anonymous]

GFR: As for running double engines. The trains here where I live sometimes run 2 engines, 1 car. So, If you like double engines, then run them that way. Hope this helps you.

Robert

[challenger3802]

The way I work out train lengths at the planning stage, is to approximate 1 foot for every engine and carriage; 2 to 3 wagons will fit in the same distance (for the smallest).

(e.g: A 4 foot platform will accomodate an engine and 3 carriages, or the passing sidings will need to be 4 foot plus the extra few inches for clearance at turnouts.)

Hope this helps
Ian

[streettrains]

I was curious on how what lengths I should have for my trains on the layout when it is done. Also this would help me decide how big my passing sidings will be. My layout is an along the wall/island/walk in it is about 15 X 22. I would like to run a few double engines on some. So all the advice would help!!![8D]

thanks
Mike