Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

John Armstrong Clinchfield design

1995 views
19 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,583 posts
John Armstrong Clinchfield design
Posted by rrebell on Friday, November 23, 2018 5:25 PM

I took out a scale rule to his plan that reapeared in the Nov. issue. I noticed he had walkways of 24" or less in a lot of areas, and this was soposed to be good planning?

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, November 23, 2018 5:35 PM

John Armstrong was reported to be as skinny as a bean pole.

.

He saw walkways as wasted space, and tended to make them small.

.

Mine have always been at least 40"

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,199 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Friday, November 23, 2018 5:36 PM

John Armstrong believed in squeezing aisles if necessary to get the track in.

I visited his layout and had to walk sideways to get through some places in the aisles.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, November 23, 2018 5:44 PM

rrebell
I noticed he had walkways of 24" or less in a lot of areas, and this was soposed to be good planning? Add Quote to your Post

Watch the movie Woodstock.  Americns don't look like that anymore.

These days kids in the early teens have beer bellies and their dads and their moms look like they are pregnant with triplets.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,583 posts
Posted by rrebell on Friday, November 23, 2018 6:25 PM

There were lots of fat people then too. As for Woodstock, alot of those people were drug experimentors, drugs tend to make people skinny. That aside, space planning 101 is aisles should be a min. 30". Benn like that long before I was born.

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: North Carolina
  • 1,904 posts
Posted by csxns on Friday, November 23, 2018 6:43 PM

BigDaddy
beer bellies and their dads and their moms look like they are pregnant with triplets.

LOL i do like that one how true.

Russell

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,199 posts
Posted by tstage on Friday, November 23, 2018 7:34 PM

rrebell

There were lots of fat people then too. As for Woodstock, alot of those people were drug experimentors, drugs tend to make people skinny. That aside, space planning 101 is aisles should be a min. 30". Benn like that long before I was born.

And 36" is recommended (by the ADA), if your layout is going to be accessed by the public.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Potomac Yard
  • 2,761 posts
Posted by NittanyLion on Friday, November 23, 2018 8:36 PM

Forget gut size, I'm not all that big of a fellow, but my shoulders are close to 20 inches wide. Those narrow aisles mean my elbow is a potential wrecking ball.

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, November 24, 2018 7:54 AM

rrebell
alot of those people were drug experimentors, drugs tend to make people skinny.

Clearly you have not experienced "the munchies"  Sad

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,583 posts
Posted by rrebell on Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:46 AM

BigDaddy

 

 
rrebell
alot of those people were drug experimentors, drugs tend to make people skinny.

 

Clearly you have not experienced "the munchies"  Sad

 

THC dose not affect me for some reason.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,583 posts
Posted by rrebell on Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:53 AM

tstage

 

 
rrebell

There were lots of fat people then too. As for Woodstock, alot of those people were drug experimentors, drugs tend to make people skinny. That aside, space planning 101 is aisles should be a min. 30". Benn like that long before I was born.

 

 

And 36" is recommended (by the ADA), if your layout is going to be accessed by the public.

Tom

 

Was just talking comfort of use, standard egronomics here. Most layouts are not build to full ADA requirements.

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • From: Richmond, VA
  • 1,890 posts
Posted by carl425 on Saturday, November 24, 2018 2:06 PM

Like so many other variables in layout design (radius, grade, layout height), aisle width is another instance where some folks like to refer to their personal preference as a "standard".  There are no standards - only choices.  And like all the other variables there are valid reasons for a wide variety of choices.

I like 24" aisles.  I have a disease called Primary Lateral Sclerosis (PLS).  Along with other issues, I have almost no ability to balance myself when standing without something to lean on.  Most of my layout work is done from a rolling office chair.  My 24" aisles make it easy for me to reach the benchwork on both sides of the aisle and pull myself around.  When I do have to stand to work on something, the close proximity of the benchwork behind me lets me lean lightly on it enough to maintain my balance.

OTOH, even before the PLS hit me, I had always had 24" aisles.  I decided that since I never have and never will host operating sessions or open houses, 99% of the time nobody but me is in the train room. More layout was more important to me than more people space.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 1,835 posts
Posted by bearman on Saturday, November 24, 2018 2:33 PM

Having gone through an unmitigated disaster with a layout which was never finished, I am more than willing to sacrifice some layout for comfort moving in and around my present layout. So I am at 30 inches, although I could have gone with 24 inches.  Part of the disaster was aisle space.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Dover, DE
  • 1,313 posts
Posted by hminky on Saturday, November 24, 2018 3:14 PM

Visited the Armstrong layout during the NMRA convention in 1983. The aisle size was no problem with a busload of people.

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,583 posts
Posted by rrebell on Saturday, November 24, 2018 4:37 PM

perhaps the drawing was wrong.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,321 posts
Posted by selector on Saturday, November 24, 2018 5:24 PM

If one has a central operating pit, it should be wide enough (ideally, but not necessarily) for two adults to move past each other without keeping an opposite elbow out and snagging that nice bridge you just put in place.  Probably 40", 50" would be better.

For a lone operator, it can be less than 30".  My last layout had 27" between the large helix-kum (Nanny appproved spulling)-mountain and the yard module across the loft.  It was plenty.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 1,498 posts
Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, November 24, 2018 5:25 PM

I cannot comment on Armstrong's planning philosophy or on the correctness of the scale drawing (it appears to be drawn accurately) or on the size of John's skinny little butt.

For me, aisles are layout design elements just like any other, and as such they are responsive to the overall layout givens and druthers. One of my firm givens is that minimum aisle width is 36 inches and I held to that. Most of the aisles are in fact 36 inches wide, and the aisle shown in the right-hand portion of my track plan is 48 inches wide. That area contains a large yard on both sides of the lower level and (the equivalent of) two small yards on both sides of the upper level. Several operators and spectators can comfortably congregate in that vicinity.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,321 posts
Posted by selector on Saturday, November 24, 2018 5:34 PM

bearman

Having gone through an unmitigated disaster with a layout which was never finished,...  Part of the disaster was aisle space.

 

???  [Too much, too little........???]

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • From: Northern NY (Think Upstate but even more)
  • 1,306 posts
Posted by Harrison on Sunday, November 25, 2018 11:20 AM

My layout is an extended 4x8. To be able to access switches along the back wall, I have a narrow "walkway". This also adds switching challenges, since the power packs are on the other side of the layout, and I have placed several large buildings to block the enginer's sight, the enginer must rely on his conductor's hand signals to move.

IMG_4764

 

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

My YouTube

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 1,835 posts
Posted by bearman on Monday, November 26, 2018 3:50 AM

selector

 bearman

Having gone through an unmitigated disaster with a layout which was never finished,...  Part of the disaster was aisle space.

 

 

 

???  [Too much, too little........???]

 

 
Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too little!  The memory of that layout is still painful.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!