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Rivarossi Wheel Problem

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  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Monday, November 19, 2018 12:18 PM

Stix is right that the IHC and the Rivarossi cars can be easily mistaken for eachother. I only had a few IHC cars and didn't keep them very long as they somehow looked odd, the windows and door spacing was not quite right. Con-Cor had a line of cheap passenger cars, too.

Rivarossi made some upgrades in the early 1990s, too . They made a few changes to the body shell, improved the look of the diaphragm and went to the clip-type bolster pin instead of the friction fit one used in earlier years.

 

Good Luck, Ed

I'll watch for your PM and gather round what I might have that may help you.

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, November 19, 2018 11:59 AM

Just a quick note - Rivarossi cars (made in Italy) were imported in the 1960s-80's by AHM (Associated Hobby Manufacturers, but later were sold under the Rivarossi name. So it could have either name on the box or the ad (although I believe they all said Rivarossi on the cars themselves) but they're the same cars. Anyway, these are not the same as the kinda similar IHC cars that were made in the 1990's-2000's, so don't assume that parts will be interchangeable between the two. 

Stix
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Posted by Penn Central on Monday, November 19, 2018 11:27 AM

gmpullman

 

Send me a PM if you can't find the Rivarossi parts department. I gave away or scrapped almost all my Rivarossi cars but I have a few lightweights still around.

Good Luck, Ed

 

 

Ed I'll PM you.  I havent had any luck figuring out the part number. I did find these on ebay that "look' like they'd work. But not sure.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-BLACK-COMMONWEALTH-4-WHEEL-PASSENGER-CAR-TRUCKS-BY-IHC-W-MOUNT-PIN-HORNHOOK/332243114906

 

Also just found these - hard to say b/c these dont have a mounting "pin" like the others. Have to see how mine come off right now

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-train-RIVAROSSI-10-Commonwealth-TRUCKS-w-coupler-SIL-/121096476071?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0

 

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Posted by Penn Central on Monday, November 19, 2018 11:25 AM

RR_Mel

 
If that bearing on the right is slotted towards the top of the truck then the truck frame needs to be replaced.
 
The notch on the bottom is normal, helps when inserting and removing the wheels.
 
The early Rivarossi truck frames were not made out of Delrin so I would try a epoxy repair before I bought new trucks.  I would fill the slot above the bearing with JB-Kwik Epoxy file the Epoxy flat then use a truck tuner to cut in a new bearing.  Only redo the bearings that are obviously bad.  
 
EDIT:
 
After redoing the bearing I would use a bit of Lithium grease in the bearing to prevent bearing wear in the future. 

 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
 

 

ok so I tried this approach and interestly it seemed to work. very cool! Got it to work on two trucks on the first try. The 2nd truck after I got it working I tried chipping off some excess and lost a chunk too big. so have to start over.

I'm beginning to think I'll need to buy new trucks long term.

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Posted by Penn Central on Monday, November 19, 2018 11:23 AM

wjstix

 Thanks. I took a look through and the only one that looked like it might work was out of stock. 

 
Penn Central
 wjstix

Well, a lot of companies make passenger car trucks. The Walthers catalogue / website usually has several pages of them. Keep in mind Rivarossi cars aren't all that sought after nowadays, for what you'd pay for a pair of new trucks you could probably pick up an old AHM / Rivarossi car on ebay or at a RR flea market and just use those trucks on your car.

 ok got it. How would I know if the wheels would fit into my set before buying online?
 

 

 
Once in a while you'll see trucks sold without wheelsets - Walthers sells correct ore car trucks that you can buy to replace the incorrect ones their ore cars originally came with - but normally the trucks come with wheelsets as part of the deal.
 
Not sure which would be the best replacement for AHM/Rivarossi cars, but this will give you an idea what's available:
 
 

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  • From: Good ol' USA
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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 9:01 PM

Good discussion.

Years back, before the introduction of Walthers passenger cars, I hopped up my Rivarossi lightweights by filling all of the cavities (tanks) in the floor with BB gun pellets (smothered with Elmer's Glue). AHM's one-piece interiors fit in nicely, afterwards.

I kept the stock trucks and replaced the wheel sets with Proto 2000, wheel sets. Brake clasps were removed and the wheel sets fit with no problems. With the added weight, the cars rolled very well. These wheelsets have plastic axles and are still available today from Walthers. Also available are Proto wheelsets with metal axles. 

Although I switched over to Walthers streamlined cars in the early 2000's, I decided to keep 5 of the Rivs and to metalize and upgrade them. Although generic, Rivarossi Budds can be made to look very nice after some interior and exterior detailing.  Below you can see the Proto wheel sets that I installed on an observation car about 15 years ago. 

This Seaboard Coast Line sleeper is a more recent "hop-up" with window shades and slightly heavier weathering. To me, the coolest aspect about the Rivs is that they are so easy to work on and upgrade.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 3:01 PM

Penn Central
 wjstix

Well, a lot of companies make passenger car trucks. The Walthers catalogue / website usually has several pages of them. Keep in mind Rivarossi cars aren't all that sought after nowadays, for what you'd pay for a pair of new trucks you could probably pick up an old AHM / Rivarossi car on ebay or at a RR flea market and just use those trucks on your car.

 ok got it. How would I know if the wheels would fit into my set before buying online?
 

 
Once in a while you'll see trucks sold without wheelsets - Walthers sells correct ore car trucks that you can buy to replace the incorrect ones their ore cars originally came with - but normally the trucks come with wheelsets as part of the deal.
 
Not sure which would be the best replacement for AHM/Rivarossi cars, but this will give you an idea what's available:
 
Stix
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 1:02 PM

RR_Mel

I have no experience with the underwater stuff.  I have been using JB-Kwik Weld for ever and it’s the only one I would trust on that type of plastic.
 
If you don’t have a truck tuner get one, they work great on all HO trucks.
 
 
Keep us posted with how it goes.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
 

 

Thanks to all of you fine folks here I already purchased a truck tuner :-) from micro mark. 

 

Will try the underwater since I have it and should be easy and let everyone know how it goes. 

  • Member since
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  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 1:01 PM

wjstix

Well, a lot of companies make passenger car trucks. The Walthers catalogue / website usually has several pages of them. Keep in mind Rivarossi cars aren't all that sought after nowadays, for what you'd pay for a pair of new trucks you could probably pick up an old AHM / Rivarossi car on ebay or at a RR flea market and just use those trucks on your car.

 

ok got it. How would I know if the wheels would fit into my set before buying online?

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 12:57 PM

I have no experience with the underwater stuff.  I have been using JB-Kwik Weld for ever and it’s the only one I would trust on that type of plastic.
 
If you don’t have a truck tuner get one, they work great on all HO trucks.
 
 
Keep us posted with how it goes.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 12:54 PM

Well, a lot of companies make passenger car trucks. The Walthers catalogue / website usually has several pages of them. Keep in mind Rivarossi cars aren't all that sought after nowadays, for what you'd pay for a pair of new trucks you could probably pick up an old AHM / Rivarossi car on ebay or at a RR flea market and just use those trucks on your car.

Stix
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 12:49 PM

gmpullman

Wow! Your cars must have some pretty high mileage on them. I've run mine at least ten years of almost daily use and I don't see much wear at all.

 Riv_4whl by Edmund, on Flickr

Some guys add depleted uranium or lead sheets or five-dollars in small change to them. Did the cars you buy have added weight? I never added any weight to mine and I used to run eighteen-car trains.

Send me a PM if you can't find the Rivarossi parts department. I gave away or scrapped almost all my Rivarossi cars but I have a few lightweights still around.

Good Luck, Ed

 

 

Hi Ed, from what I can tell my cars do not have any added weight. they dont feel heavy. But will have to check to be sure. Yea, I can only imagine how these were run - maybe it was a continuous display layout that was left running all day. 

If I can't fix it with some epoxy I'll try Rivarossi and let you know if I can't get them. 

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 12:47 PM

RR_Mel

 
If that bearing on the right is slotted towards the top of the truck then the truck frame needs to be replaced.
 
The notch on the bottom is normal, helps when inserting and removing the wheels.
 
The early Rivarossi truck frames were not made out of Delrin so I would try a epoxy repair before I bought new trucks.  I would fill the slot above the bearing with JB-Kwik Epoxy file the Epoxy flat then use a truck tuner to cut in a new bearing.  Only redo the bearings that are obviously bad.  
 
EDIT:
 
After redoing the bearing I would use a bit of Lithium grease in the bearing to prevent bearing wear in the future. 

 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
 

 

Hi Mel, thats what it is I think.  I was trying to figure out a way to rig it up to work again, and couldnt. So I like your idea about the epoxy.

I actually have a bunch of JB Weld underwater epoxy that I use for my aquarium. Im wondering if this will work in the approach you mentioned. I'm gonna try it tonight!

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 8:03 AM

I don’t use Rivarossi passenger cars anymore either but I put many hours of running time on them over a 20 or so year period and never had a problem with the trucks.  I have always added weight to all my rolling stock, I don’t remember what the Rivarossi cars weighed but I’m pretty sure I added 4 ounces to every car and no problems of any kind, 2 ounces over each truck is my norm.
 
I changed over to Athearn for the shorter 72’ cars, there was too much overhang with the Rivarossi cars and they looked bad on my 24” radius curve.  They looked OK on my 32” curves and tracked well even in my 18” radius curves in my yard. 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 9:31 PM

Wow! Your cars must have some pretty high mileage on them. I've run mine at least ten years of almost daily use and I don't see much wear at all.

 Riv_4whl by Edmund, on Flickr

Some guys add depleted uranium or lead sheets or five-dollars in small change to them. Did the cars you buy have added weight? I never added any weight to mine and I used to run eighteen-car trains.

Send me a PM if you can't find the Rivarossi parts department. I gave away or scrapped almost all my Rivarossi cars but I have a few lightweights still around.

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 8:31 PM

 
If that bearing on the right is slotted towards the top of the truck then the truck frame needs to be replaced.
 
The notch on the bottom is normal, helps when inserting and removing the wheels.
 
The early Rivarossi truck frames were not made out of Delrin so I would try a epoxy repair before I bought new trucks.  I would fill the slot above the bearing with JB-Kwik Epoxy file the Epoxy flat then use a truck tuner to cut in a new bearing.  Only redo the bearings that are obviously bad.  
 
EDIT:
 
After redoing the bearing I would use a bit of Lithium grease in the bearing to prevent bearing wear in the future. 

 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 8:23 PM

7j43k

Maybe a previous owner wore out the trucks.  Specifically, the axle bearings.

 

Ed

 

 

are the bearings where the pins of the axle rest? If so looks like it. Aside from replacing the entire trucks is there a fix for something like this? I did get these on the cheap so I guess I can’t be too surprised. 

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 8:10 PM

Maybe a previous owner wore out the trucks.  Specifically, the axle bearings.

 

Ed

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 7:55 PM

Ok learning more here. I think this might be bigger than the axles. using a magnifying glass I removed the axles and inspected the “place” where the axles seat on the truck. I noticed that not all wheels where having this problem. Some seemed to not sink while others did. Anyway upon closer inspection it looks like the small “box” that holds the axle pin has been worn away or busted out of the bottom on the bad wheels. I tested this by swapping out wheels. 

 

I’m having a hard posting pictures from my phone here so hope this comes through (notice the bottom of the black square on one side is broken)

 

 https://imgur.com/gallery/YAaR3oc

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Posted by Penn Central on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 7:37 PM

Ok I think I see what you mean. I measured as best as I could the length of the axle space. Looks like this is the smaller one, right below 2.5mm?

 

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  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 7:24 PM

RR_Mel

Rivarossi had two axle lengths.  0.9635”/2.448mm and 1.022”/2.595mm.  Someone might have swapped wheel sets.  Only the latest release Rivarossis (late 90s) had RP-25 wheels, if your cars have RP-25 flanges they most likely have the wrong axle length.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
 

 

hi Mel ill see if I can measure. Is it the length or width in looking for?

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Posted by Penn Central on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 7:23 PM

gmpullman

Hi,

 Kadee_720 by Edmund, on Flickr

I buy them from Model Train Stuff

$7.80 plus shipping ( 65¢ per wheel set) but usually combine them with a bunch of other items to mitigate the postage.

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/kadee-ho-520-33-diameter-smooth-back-freight-wheelsets-12-sets/

There are other sources, this is just an example.

Good Luck, Ed

 

tHanks Ed. Was about to place an order from there so will check these out. 

  • Member since
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 2:13 PM

Rivarossi had two axle lengths.  0.9635”/2.448mm and 1.022”/2.595mm.  Someone might have swapped wheel sets.  Only the latest release Rivarossis (late 90s) had RP-25 wheels, if your cars have RP-25 flanges they most likely have the wrong axle length.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 2:10 PM

Hi,

 Kadee_720 by Edmund, on Flickr

I buy them from Model Train Stuff

$7.80 plus shipping ( 65¢ per wheel set) but usually combine them with a bunch of other items to mitigate the postage.

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/kadee-ho-520-33-diameter-smooth-back-freight-wheelsets-12-sets/

There are other sources, this is just an example.

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:52 PM

gmpullman

I recall the days when 90% of my passenger fleet was made up of Rivarossi cars. I would replace the wheels with #520, 33" Kadee wheelsets. You could use the 36" but in that case the brake shoes would have to be trimmed or removed.

https://kadee.com/htmbord/page520_530.htm

Perhaps someone previously replaced the wheel/axle sets and used ones where the axle is too short, so it sits too low between the bearing points, or the wheel too small so the truck sideframe sits too low?

Hope that helps, Ed

 

 

Thanks Ed, this is very helpful. So is this a common theme with Rivarossi? Its just like you said, the wheel sits too low between the points.

So looking at Kadee's site those wheelsets are $9.75 each. Is that literally for one axle and two wheels? Or do you get two sets of those for one truck? Either way thats gonna run me $20-$40 per car. Yikes.

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:26 PM

I recall the days when 90% of my passenger fleet was made up of Rivarossi cars. I would replace the wheels with #520, 33" Kadee wheelsets. You could use the 36" but in that case the brake shoes would have to be trimmed or removed.

https://kadee.com/htmbord/page520_530.htm

Perhaps someone previously replaced the wheel/axle sets and used ones where the axle is too short, so it sits too low between the bearing points, or the wheel too small so the truck sideframe sits too low?

Hope that helps, Ed

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Rivarossi Wheel Problem
Posted by Penn Central on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:07 PM

Hi all, I'm still a newbie here and purchasing my first trains since I was a kid. Recently I purchased a used set of 4 Rivarossi Amtrak cars (#6596 A). I didnt realize it until I put them on the tracks but something funky is going on with the wheels/axles. Basically the plastic truck frames are hitting the rails in most cases. Almost like the wheels are sunken.  At first I thought I purchased something for the wrong guage. 

Is there something I need to be doing with the wheel sets to make the wheels high enough to the truck frames dont drag on the rails? 

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