You're welcome John,
The cracks are hard to see, magnification is helpful. Removing the wheelsets is needed. Give each wheel a slight twist, any that are loose is a tip off that the geared axle is likely cracked. Slowly put slight pressure against the suspect wheel shaft at a right angle to the axle and while keeping the slight tension inspect the axle end carefully. The crack will open and be obvious, it will be perpendicular to the axle, either straight or somewhat jagged.
Good luck and regards, Peter
HO-Velo Attuvian NWSL John, Checked with NWSL some time ago and no go. The locos still run since it's the axle tube that cracks and not the gear, seems amount of running time detemines how soon the wheelset loses gauge. Some loss of gauge isn't noticeable, but squeaking is a sure sign that it's time for a wheelset gauge adjustment. I made a fix of sorts to some gear axles that were cracked on only one end, but with little running time on the loco can't attest to the longevity of the repair. After thoroughly cleaning the wheelsets pushed the wheel shaft into the cracked end of the axle, then roughed up a small area on the axle and matching spot on the back face of the wheel with sand paper, Then applied a small blob of epoxy to the roughed up spots. After epoxy fully cured set gauge with the opposite wheel. Maybe the subject matter expert is correct about differing thermal expansion rate between wheel shaft and geared axle. Then again, maybe the interference fits are too tight. Regardless, still enjoy the fine running of my old Katos and Stewart/Kato drives. Regards, Peter
NWSL
John, Checked with NWSL some time ago and no go. The locos still run since it's the axle tube that cracks and not the gear, seems amount of running time detemines how soon the wheelset loses gauge. Some loss of gauge isn't noticeable, but squeaking is a sure sign that it's time for a wheelset gauge adjustment.
I made a fix of sorts to some gear axles that were cracked on only one end, but with little running time on the loco can't attest to the longevity of the repair. After thoroughly cleaning the wheelsets pushed the wheel shaft into the cracked end of the axle, then roughed up a small area on the axle and matching spot on the back face of the wheel with sand paper, Then applied a small blob of epoxy to the roughed up spots. After epoxy fully cured set gauge with the opposite wheel.
Maybe the subject matter expert is correct about differing thermal expansion rate between wheel shaft and geared axle. Then again, maybe the interference fits are too tight.
Regardless, still enjoy the fine running of my old Katos and Stewart/Kato drives.
Regards, Peter
Thanks, Peter. The units are accessible to me though I haven't yet purchased them. I should have the opportunity to check them out for this issue if it has already befallen them - presuming I recognize what to look for. Should I expect to nail down the matter with a combination of running tests, close listening, visuals, and wheel guage checks or would I have to break down the trucks to be sure of the problem?
They aren't going anywhere from their current source, at least until the next major area swap meet in January. I've got some time to work this one.
John
AttuvianNWSL
Yes, Kadee #450 close coupling set.
FYI, I advise only using the #450 bracket on the rear of the A unit and both ends of the B units.
If you use it in the front of the A unit, which you can, you actually use it in the wide space setting rather than close couple. You might as well just use the KD in the standard KD draft gear box with the ears cut off.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
My F3 Stewart - Kato was from the 80's. No problems so far.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Hmmm. Gear cracking in Katos?
I have never heard of this. Searching online, I am so far only able to find a couple of comments about this issue at all?
I'm not saying it didn't happen, but, for most people won't the engines continue to operate ok as long as the cracking remains minor?
I just bought 3 nos F-3's from the very first run on Ebay, and they all appear to be ok to me.
Is there more information available?
HO-Velo Note of caution: The early 90s Kato and Stewart/Kato geared axle cracking occurs not in the gear, but at the outer portion of the axle that makes up the interference fit between the axle and wheel set stub shaft. The cracks can be obscure, but by causing the interference fit to be lost the wheel sets won't stay in gauge. A close examination of an online purchased new old stock Stewart/Kato loco revealed all four geared axles to be cracked. Though now listed as sold out by Kato the geared wheel sets part#962010 also ended up cracking over time. Discussion with expert pointed to possible expansion differences between dissimilar materials? Regards, Peter
Note of caution: The early 90s Kato and Stewart/Kato geared axle cracking occurs not in the gear, but at the outer portion of the axle that makes up the interference fit between the axle and wheel set stub shaft. The cracks can be obscure, but by causing the interference fit to be lost the wheel sets won't stay in gauge.
A close examination of an online purchased new old stock Stewart/Kato loco revealed all four geared axles to be cracked.
Though now listed as sold out by Kato the geared wheel sets part#962010 also ended up cracking over time.
Discussion with expert pointed to possible expansion differences between dissimilar materials?
Fwiw, these now about 30 year old models (first run item numbers were imported during 1988) are a great value for the money spent.
I helped unload them from the trucks at Toy Train Heaven back in the day, owned a few then before getting "too picky" myself in the years since, and I'm selling other more expensive motive power now, and going "old school" and replacing that more expensive power with these very same Stewart-Kato engines. One can still find brand new in box units today for a reasonable price.
(Exception: I did also just order an Athearn Genesis A-A set of two of the "final 4" WP F units to go along with my Stewarts).
Many folks have different F unit preferences, and there are different opinions about correct nose contour and front window shape, etc. Most people seem to prefer Athearn Genesis (Highliners body shell) as being the "most correct" F unit body.
However, the Stewart version is one of the better ones especially if the mold lines are smoothed out.
Don't forget a crew in the cab and the Kadee #450 close coupling set.
I bought this New York Central F7 "Lightning Striper" new back in the 1990s and have had it out of the box only a few times. Stock Number 9140. The Kato drive runs very smoothly with little current draw! I plan on installing DCC-Sound and LED lights.
The details supplied are as what GMPullman mentions; brake cylinders, levers, swing hangers, and a pair of Leslie A-200 "honker" horns.
During that time period I was switching from modeling NYC to the SCL/ACL/ and New Haven. However I decided to keep it as an occasional "foregn power" visitor on my lines once it's "hopped" up.
Imho, Stewart did a nice job on the shell and it is a cut above the Athearn BB F-unit shells.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
The Stewart/Kato are smooth and quiet runners and take well to DCC conversion. If they are early 90s models and begin squeaking and grumbling it is likely because of cracked geared axles.
You guys are all fabulous. Thanks for your counsel. Looks like I'll also have to come up with road numbers and do number boards. Now to scrape up the bucks. Does anyone these days hire 70 year-olds to rake leaves?
John,
What you want is the Cal-Scale #190-519 & #190-520 superdetail sets. Cal-Scale also makes a Leslie A-200 horn set (#190-542). If you opt for the latter over the supplied plastic horns, you'll have to drill out/enlarge both sets of holes in the roof of the shell in order to get them to fit properly.
Both sets can be purchased directly from Bowser's online store, or from places like eBay. The superdetail kits come with all the metal grabirons, handrails, lift rings, wipers, and air lines for dressing up a Stewart F-unit and look great when applied. You'll also need a #79 drill bit (and maybe a few back up bits) for drilling out all the drill guides (dimples) in the shell.
Hope that helps...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Various grab irons are available commercially and I made some of my own out of phosphor-bronze wire. Not hard and it looks a whole lot better.
The truck side frames do not simply pop straight off. Look at the directions either at HO Seeker or Bowser.
Everyone has already explained that Stewarts Fs were pretty basic out of the box.
I have five with Kato motors and drives,purchased in the late 80s and early 90s, that have been sitting on shelves for years. last spring, I brought them out, and they ran fantasticly well considering their long term hibernation. Still have X2f couplers
Boris
The only details on the "detail sprue" are brake cylinders, hangers, and air horns. The air horns look like poo-poo.
.
The awesome thing is that the body is lightly dimpled for the Walthers "dress-up" kit for the Athearn F7. Some people have stated that these grabs are a bit thick, but they look good to me. Maybe your eye is calibrated better than mine.
The pair of STRATTON & GILLETTE F3s below are Stewart/Kato with the Walthers dress up kit, Cal Scale horns, Detail Associates lift rings, and a Details West bell. They also have windshield wipers, which in my oppinion is the most important detail to add to F units.
These are fine models. The curves on the nose look right to me, and they run beautifully.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
John, I have around 13 original KATO made Stewart Fs. The only loose parts they come with is the sprue that had the horns and sideframe hanger and brake cylinders. No wire or plastic grabs.
The ermergence of more detailed Fs from Genesis, Intermountain and Proto2000 have made the Stewart's much less popular.
It can be argued that these Stewart's still to this day have the best drive. The shell is rendered well and ten times better that the old Athearn Globe F, so if you are willing to dress up a Stewart, you should have a good looking excellent running engine.
Mike's got it. Plus there were truck swing hangers that pressed into the side frames.
Take a look at the Stewart section at HO seeker for three pages of diagrams:
http://hoseeker.net/lit.html
All the part #15 come on a sprue. 8 brake cylinders/levers; 4 swing hangers; 2 air horns.
Really hefty engines. Ive had a couple, maybe they were after Bowser took over the line, but these had Bühler motors in them, and the motor brushes or commutator toasted pretty early on. The Kato should be fine, though.
Good Luck, Ed
IIRC, the only exterior details (windows were kindly supplied, unlike with blue box Fs) other than the brake levers on the trucks separately applied were the horns. They may have been factory installed, though. The dimples were designed to make it easier for th modeler. Walthers and Details West made detail kits for F units that could be used or you could DIY putting together your own.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Hi, all.
I'm considering the purchase of a couple of older Stewart F7As, the ones with the nice Kato drives. Stewart stock numbers are 9160 and 9240. It's apparent that the units are used but except for a little dust they seem to be in decent shape. But they are rather plain in regard to details. I note upon closer inspection, however, that there are a few small holes for some lower grab irons and even small dimples where holes can be drilled to install vertical grabs beside the cabin doors, etc. There are no loose wire parts in the boxes which still have the original styrofoam trays. Can any out there say if these originally came with metal grabs to be installed by the buyer? I do believe that the purchaser was to apply some plastic side frame details that were provided on sprues, work that appears to have been done with these.
Thanks!