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Help automating turnouts

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  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Help automating turnouts
Posted by Penn Central on Thursday, November 8, 2018 12:45 PM

Hi all,

I've read many threads here on automating turnouts and I think I have my approach after going back and forth. I have 5 Atlast turnouts on a layout for for under the christmas tree (and under the sofa :-) ) . At least two of the turnouts will be hard to reach. The layout will be on the floor and have two young boys playing with it. No DCC, straight DC layout. Thought it would be fun to automate them but also learned how unreliable Atlas switch boxes/machines can be.  

Below is an image of my layout. 

I'm planning on using Ken Stapleton's 751D devices wired to Atlast Remote Switch machines

 

 

 

My questions are: 

1) How can I wire one 751D to control two switch machines? I confirmed with Ken this should be possible.

2) Power source: he recommends using a 12v DC power supply. Can I use one supply to power multiple switches? or one per switch? 

Anyone with experience with devices like this? If its not obvious I'm a newbie!

 

My other alternative was to setup some manual turnout controls using piano wire and such. Some cool designs.

 

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, November 8, 2018 1:34 PM

I've used a couple of those controls for Atlas snap switches.  They seem to work fine.  I used them because those turnouts are in a subway and hidden from view, and Ken's controls have outputs for LEDs so it was easy to put indicator lights on the panel to tell me which way the turnouts are lined.

I would be concerned about running two turnouts from one control, though.  If you have a long wire run, the turnouts might not get enough power.  I always recommend using a Capacitive Discharge circuit with these twin coil machines, but I'm not sure you can do that with these controls.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Fullerton, California
  • 1,364 posts
Posted by hornblower on Thursday, November 8, 2018 2:30 PM

I, and many others, have used the Atlas switch machines with years of reliable operation.  The only real problem is with people who don't understand the physical strength limits of the Atlas plastic control boxes and just MASH on the poor little slide/push switches until the turnout moves.  Damage caused by such ham-fisted use will eventually cause the switches to stick which can cause the coils on the switch machine to melt down!  However, as long as everyone operating the layout understands that the Atlas control boxes require gentle use, you shouldn't have any problems. Besides, the switch motors will give you audible warning when a control switch sticks -- the switch motor will hum or growl rather than just click.  If you hear a hum or growl every time a particular person operates a turnout, first smack him in the head, then take away his layout privileges.  Seriously, just let that person know that he only needs to push the button momentarily to operate the turnout.  If he hears a click, the turnout has thrown.  Yes, a CD activation unit will eliminate such problems but the Atlas turnout already came with everything you need without having to spend more money for additional electronic devices.

Since you only activate one (or two) turnouts at a time, one power supply is adequate for ALL of your turnouts.  My last layout had a pair of turnouts at either end of a short siding wired together so that one electrical switch would activate both turnouts to select either route.  Wiring is similar to that for a single turnout.  Just use two sets of wires to connect both turnouts to a single control box and make sure the polarity at each switch motor is correct so that both turnouts align a single route.  Easy!

Hornblower

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Sebring FL
  • 842 posts
Posted by floridaflyer on Thursday, November 8, 2018 2:37 PM

Atlas switch control boxes and young boys are not an ideal matchup.If the boys have a light touch and learn to just tap the button all should be well. However is a concern.

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Thursday, November 8, 2018 3:32 PM

Thank you Hornblower. Thats some great encouragement. I had been wondering why people say they burn out so easily. Yes I will have young boys, one 11 (who's really mature and can be taught) and one 5 who wont be operating it alone. Also great point about them humming when they stick. 

I really would like to use the Atlas ones since like you said they're ready made and I used them years ago as a kid and they're super simple to wire up. 

Ok maybe I'll go that route (I already need the machines anyway). 

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Thursday, November 8, 2018 3:33 PM

MisterBeasley

I've used a couple of those controls for Atlas snap switches.  They seem to work fine.  I used them because those turnouts are in a subway and hidden from view, and Ken's controls have outputs for LEDs so it was easy to put indicator lights on the panel to tell me which way the turnouts are lined.

I would be concerned about running two turnouts from one control, though.  If you have a long wire run, the turnouts might not get enough power.  I always recommend using a Capacitive Discharge circuit with these twin coil machines, but I'm not sure you can do that with these controls.

 

 

Good to know you've done this before. thanks. When I first wrote Ken Stapleton he wrote back saying one could be used for two turnouts. Hmmm. good point on the long wires. 

 

 

floridaflyer

Atlas switch control boxes and young boys are not an ideal matchup.If the boys have a light touch and learn to just tap the button all should be well. However is a concern.

 

 

Ok I'll have to see if I can "train" them :-) See my comments below to Hornblower on their ages.

 

hornblower

I, and many others, have used the Atlas switch machines with years of reliable operation.  The only real problem is with people who don't understand the physical strength limits of the Atlas plastic control boxes and just MASH on the poor little slide/push switches until the turnout moves.  Damage caused by such ham-fisted use will eventually cause the switches to stick which can cause the coils on the switch machine to melt down!  However, as long as everyone operating the layout understands that the Atlas control boxes require gentle use, you shouldn't have any problems. Besides, the switch motors will give you audible warning when a control switch sticks -- the switch motor will hum or growl rather than just click.  If you hear a hum or growl every time a particular person operates a turnout, first smack him in the head, then take away his layout privileges.  Seriously, just let that person know that he only needs to push the button momentarily to operate the turnout.  If he hears a click, the turnout has thrown.  Yes, a CD activation unit will eliminate such problems but the Atlas turnout already came with everything you need without having to spend more money for additional electronic devices.

Since you only activate one (or two) turnouts at a time, one power supply is adequate for ALL of your turnouts.  My last layout had a pair of turnouts at either end of a short siding wired together so that one electrical switch would activate both turnouts to select either route.  Wiring is similar to that for a single turnout.  Just use two sets of wires to connect both turnouts to a single control box and make sure the polarity at each switch motor is correct so that both turnouts align a single route.  Easy!

 

 

Thank you Hornblower. Thats some great encouragement. I had been wondering why people say they burn out so easily. Yes I will have young boys, one 11 (who's really mature and can be taught) and one 5 who wont be operating it alone. Also great point about them humming when they stick. 

I really would like to use the Atlas ones since like you said they're ready made and I used them years ago as a kid and they're super simple to wire up. 

Ok maybe I'll go that route (I already need the machines anyway). 

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, November 8, 2018 6:12 PM

I would not rely on a humming sound to tell me I was about to burn a switch machine.  It's going to be drowned out by kid noise and train noise.  The next tell-tale is the smell of burning coils.

The buttons are different now, but the old ones used to occasionally stick, regardless of how careful you were with them.  Get a Capacitive Discharge unit and protect all your turnouts.  It will also give you plenty of power to run multiple machines off a single button, even with long wires.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Friday, November 9, 2018 11:17 AM

MisterBeasley

I would not rely on a humming sound to tell me I was about to burn a switch machine.  It's going to be drowned out by kid noise and train noise.  The next tell-tale is the smell of burning coils.

The buttons are different now, but the old ones used to occasionally stick, regardless of how careful you were with them.  Get a Capacitive Discharge unit and protect all your turnouts.  It will also give you plenty of power to run multiple machines off a single button, even with long wires.

 

 

Thanks MisterBeasley. So to your point, is this device a "captive discharge unit" or I think they're called CDU in the hobby?  Does this meet those needs?

 

http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, November 9, 2018 11:28 AM

No, the 751D is not a CDU, although it may protect twin coils.  I don't know.

One CDU will protect all of your twin coils, and provide the extra power you may, or may not need.

Atlas remote turnouts come with the pushbuttons, so with one CDU you don't need anything else.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, November 9, 2018 11:33 AM

The C stands for capacitor, in CDU

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Friday, November 9, 2018 12:17 PM
Ah ok, thanks all. So one CDU for all switches. And I could then continue to use the Atlas switch boxes and have the single CDU protect the machines? So with that said can someone recommend a good CDU? I like the 751Ds but Ken's a pretty hard guy to get a hold of and order from.
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, November 10, 2018 7:42 PM

Circuitron makes one they call the Snapper which is well regarded.

A CDU is a simple circuit, essentially 2 resistors and 2 capacitors.  I built mine from a couple of dollars of Radio Shack parts and it's worked for a decade.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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