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Older locos and insulated frogs

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  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:24 PM

clickable

third try  https://tinyurl.com/y8rb7lhx

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    June 2005
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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Saturday, October 20, 2018 1:51 PM

Penn Central
The ones that are giving me problems are:
 
- Circa 1970 Mantua Penn Central F7
- 1980 ish Bachman Amtrak EMD
- Not sure but older Bachmann Santa Fe F7

 
The Bachmann engines should all have metal wheels, so adding wipers should work for those.  Since some of the wheels probably have tires, make sure the wipers touch the back of the wheel instead of the tread.
 
The Mantua F7 will be more tricky.  As long as it has the MU-2 motor and not Tyco's "sidewinder", it can be upgraded with metal wheels and some extra weight.  Here's my conversion on a Mantua Sharknose: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/195040.aspx (you might have to copy and paste that)
One other option would be to add pickup shoes next to the plastic wheels to touch the track directly.

_________________________________________________________________

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Friday, October 19, 2018 10:03 PM

That frog is metal and can be powered by soldering or using a screw in that little brass ring or loop that is sticking out from the side of the ties on the left. I have been powering My frogs with Atlas snap relays and under table Atlas switch machines since 1980 all 45 of them and never had to replace any of them due to them as You heard ''stink". You can use a Tortoise to switch them and power the frog if You prefer......You can't use a frog juicer, that's for DCC. Tortoise's were not even out yet when I built My layout otherwise I may have used them. But I have not had any issues with the Atlas Products. I use normally open push buttons on control panel with route indicator Led's to power the machines/relays with a 6amp 18vac power supply, 12vdc for the Led's.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Friday, October 19, 2018 9:18 PM

Sorry everyone, been late getting back here. Thanks for the questions and feedback....

 

snjroy

Hi there. For DC, having flywheels connected to the motor will help. The best method would be to add additional power pickups on your wheels. You might want to give use more info on your engines... Simon

 

 
Would love to try to add additional pickup to my locos. I've already opened up and restored them all to working condition on my own.
 
But good question on my locomotives.  
 
The ones that are giving me problems are:
 
- Circa 1970 Mantua Penn Central F7
- 1980 ish Bachman Amtrak EMD
- Not sure but older Bachmann Santa Fe F7
 

 

 

zstripe

Everyone is giving advice for adding pickups and other info, but I'm more curious as to when or how He has an Atlas #8 turnout with a plastic frog. Along with having 24'' radius track, which I think is true-track. If He is using true-track turnouts they have  a plastic frog just like a Snap Switch and they surely are not #8's. All numbered Customline turnouts have the black metal insulated frog that can be powered.

I believe more info is necessary from the OP before any advice could be given to help Him out.

Just MyMy 2 Cents

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

 

 

So here's the switch I'm using. 

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/atlas-ho-286-code-100-track-8-right-hand-mark-iv-turnout/

 

Its only one small part where the locos lose power. When the front wheels run over that frog. Not sure if its b/c its plastic or not.

 

 

rrinker

 Atlas #8 is defnintely not a plastic frog. There is a little loop outside of the rails on one side where one can connect power, routed by contacts on the switch machine, such as a Tortoise, of if using Atlas point motors, you cna add a Snap Relay in parallel to change the frog polarity. Themn the whole thing will be powered and even those split pickup locos should be able to run nicely over the frog without stalling.

                                        --Randy

 

 

That would be awesome if I could add power. Right now have not purchased any switch machines. Someone told me the Atlas switch machines/boxes stink. 

Ken Stapleton's 751D switches

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 7:36 PM

 Atlas #8 is defnintely not a plastic frog. There is a little loop outside of the rails on one side where one can connect power, routed by contacts on the switch machine, such as a Tortoise, of if using Atlas point motors, you cna add a Snap Relay in parallel to change the frog polarity. Themn the whole thing will be powered and even those split pickup locos should be able to run nicely over the frog without stalling.

                                        --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 5:28 PM

Everyone is giving advice for adding pickups and other info, but I'm more curious as to when or how He has an Atlas #8 turnout with a plastic frog. Along with having 24'' radius track, which I think is true-track. If He is using true-track turnouts they have  a plastic frog just like a Snap Switch and they surely are not #8's. All numbered Customline turnouts have the black metal insulated frog that can be powered.

I believe more info is necessary from the OP before any advice could be given to help Him out.

Just MyMy 2 Cents

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:52 PM

I also run DC, and have had good success handling that issue by adding all-wheel pick-up to older locos (including newer brass ones, too).

Here's a brass tender with wipers (modified Kadee #5 coupler-centering springs) added to the insulated wheels...

Instead of (or in addition to) using the drawbar for current transmission, I added mini-connectors between loco and tender...

The locomotive also gets similar wipers, bearing on the tires of the insulated drivers, with a direct wire connection to the motor...

With this set-up, the loco will run as long as there's at least one pair of wheels contacting live rails.

Wayne

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:46 PM

Hi there. For DC, having flywheels connected to the motor will help. The best method would be to add additional power pickups on your wheels. You might want to give use more info on your engines... Simon

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Posted by Penn Central on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 3:41 PM

7j43k

DCC with "keep-alive" should do the trick.

 You might also see my comment in the topic: "Powering a plastic frog...."

Ed

 

 

Ah, I should've mentioned I'm not using DCC in this layout. But I will search for that term. thanks!

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 3:03 PM

DCC with "keep-alive" should do the trick.

 You might also see my comment in the topic: "Powering a plastic frog...."

Ed

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 114 posts
Older locos and insulated frogs
Posted by Penn Central on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:55 PM

Sorry still a newbie here and think I'm using the right term "insulated frog". I have some 24" radius, Atlas #8 turnouts on my new layout. I also have some really old locos (35-40 years) that I've refurbished and got running.

My problem is these older locos stall when running over these turnouts, assuming its b/c the frog is plastic/insulated and the loco picks up all power from one set of wheels. When this one set of wheels runs over it stalls. 

Is there a fix or mod that will allow me to run these older locos smoothly? 

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