I am redoing some railwork and saw a video on YouTube where the inside of the rail joint was the location for applying solder between track pieces, then smoothed with a file. I believe that a very thin solder wire was used in the process. Is this a recommended better method than allowing the solder to flow on the outside and inside of the rail joint?
Cedarwoodron
When I've done it, I've always applied solder to the outside, then any small globs don't really matter. Although, I always tried to apply "just enough" that it's all sucked into the joiner . It's been a while, but as I recall, feeding about 1/8" to 3/16" of 0.030" solder is just enough to get the job done.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
cedarwoodronI am redoing some railwork and saw a video on YouTube where the inside of the rail joint was the location for applying solder between track pieces, then smoothed with a file.
I'm interpreting this as the solder being applied to the small vertical gap between the rails. If so, I'm not sure what is suggested as the advantage; i.e., strength, looks, etc. Can you post a link to the video?
I soldered mine the usual way, inside and outside of the rails, wanting solder flow along the length of the joiner (to the extent a gap allowed solder inside, but also a bit along the edge. It's easy to get good electrical connection, but anything that helps longitudinal strength seems important for flex track on curves, as that minimizes any kink tendency I'm thinking.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I think it was the late Andy Sperandeo who wrote in MR that it was possible to solder feeders and rail joints on the inside portion of the rail. It was purely for the cosmetic reasons - he did not claim it was a better joint and he made it plain it called for some care: this is where you flatten the feeder wire to resemble a spike head for example, so there should still be ample clearance for flanges, at least on Code 100 and 83 rail.
Obviously depending on your layout situation, a soldered joint on the inside might be a cosmetic improvement only half the time ....
Rangerover is correct that you should not solder every joint but need to allow gaps for seasonal expansion and contraction. But that is not the same as never soldering any joint. I solder joints on curves for example because that made it easier to lay a smooth even curve, but I do not routinely do so on tangents. 10 or so years of seasonal changes and no problems to report thus far (quick, find me some wood to knock).
Dave Nelson
Regarding where you solder, I've always used the logic that if you solder on the outside of the rail, there is virtually no chance any bits of solder could interfere with flanges passing the joint. That is why I solder on the outside if/when I solder a feeder to a rail.
Rangerover1944soldering joints???....I've been under the impression you should never solder joints especially if you're model rail roading in climates that go from 100 degrees in the summer to temps below 0 in winter months. Unless of course you keep the temp and humidity at normal levels year round. Those joints are supposed to be open a bit for expansion and contracting though I do solder my feeds to the track from my buss about every 2' feet and every piece of track even if it's a fill in piece of 1 or 2 inches gets wired and only on the outside, never inside staying away from the flanges on the wheels. Just my opinion
I have an opinion too based on past layouts where I did have expansion/contraction problems. That layout was in a garage which did experience large swings in temperature and humidity. It was my first large layout and I soldered all the track joints while the weather was warm, then the following winter joints pulled apart and the solder joints were broken. The following summer there were some kinks.
Now feedback from a number of modelers argue that the expansion/contraction problems were due to the wood not the rail. My last layout was in a temp/humidity controlled basement (dehumidifier and HVAC vented room) and I had very little issue. On that layout, I soldered joints on curves but left all the other joints unsoldered.
Now getting back to feeders...
... what I did to allow the rail to breath, if necessary, was to connect rail with metal rail joiners unsoldered. Then I soldered feeders to the rail joiners every 6 to 8 feet which gave frequent power connectors to the rail while allowing for expansion and contraction.
So in this case I run the feeders up through the subroadbed in a hole drilled on the side of the rail farthest from the walkway so it is hidden visually. Since the feeder is soldered to the rail joiner, even if it is located at the inside of the rail, it is below where any flange would pass so that is not an issue.
Case in point:
As for the notion that wood is the root of the expansion and contraction problems, perhaps due to changes in humidity level, I plan on applying a coat of water sealer to the benchwork wood as a precaution although the basement temperature does not vary by a lot and a de-humidifier keeps humidty in the 50-60 range.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
It's both. Humidity plays with the framework of wood and perhaps the choice of sub-roadbed/roadbed. Temperature plays with the rails and some other materials. It's always possible that the two can work in concert to make for really bad changes in the benchwork and the rail system.
The current wisdom is that the modeler should carefully consider soldering joints along curves, especially tighter curves where tension is greatest (throw them thin joiners a bone, will ya?!?), and leave several slipping joints (meaning not soldered) to allow for the minor changes in length* that temperatures impart to our nickel-silver rails.
Use a dehumidifier or a humidifier where it seems prudent. If you have dry heat during the winter (steam radiators), your benchwork will dry out and shrink along the grain. That pulls joints together so tightly that they abut, or merely close some (what we want), or if the joints are restricted due to soldering, the rails will buckle or bow, either vertically or horizonatally. Conversely, during periods when humidity runs high, the benchwork will lengthen and pull joints apart if they are not soldered. It may leave large gaps that cause problems, particularly along the tighter curves. Flanges along curves don't respond well to gaps greater than about 3mm unless you are prepared to bevel/chamfer the inner edges of each rail head where they join to ease the passage of the flanges.
What this all means in an educated, balanced, and intelligent approach to what we create. The goal is to leave for ourselves as little unintended or unanticipated vexation as possible...and lasting disappointment.
* Code 100 nickel-silver rail expands only 1/4" along a full 100' with a temperature rise of 30 deg F. Think about that. We don't have lengths of rails 100 feet long UNLESS we solder every single joint for 100'. If we were to do that for some reason, when the temps in the room changes from an average of 40 deg during winter up to 70 during the spring, we would measure only 1/4" longer. That can easily be accounted for with about four or five unsoldered joiners and leaving 3/16" gaps in every instance.
For the mainline, I def solder on the outside rails, but sometimes both in yards. The location in the yard depends on the turnout.
I've seen some paint over the track solder with rust color markers. Won't this ruin the connection? If not, that offers a potential solution to hiding the solder.
shouldn't the solder fill all or a portion of the gap, not be a blob on the outside of the rail? what needs to be hidden?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
A few times I used silver solder paste which flows quite nicely. Same used in PC board assembly.
Yes, expansion and shrinking is an issue.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
selectorThe current wisdom is that the modeler should carefully consider soldering joints along curves, especially tighter curves where tension is greatest, and leave several slipping joints (meaning not soldered) to allow for the minor changes in length* that temperatures impart to our nickel-silver rails.
After my experience with my garage layout, soldering curves and leaving straight secitons to breath/slip has been my practice on the two layouts following. It seemed like the common sense approach to follow.
What this all means in an educated, balanced, and intelligent approach to what we create.
My wife probably wouldn't characterize me in that manner but I'll take what I can get!
Aye, but what needs to be hidden are the feeders, eh?! Not soldering the inside of the rail just helps prevent any blobs that might occur from being an issue for flanges, not that I ever get blobs you know?
I solder all rail joiners (except the insulated ones, of course) and have had no problems with track. The layout is in a well-insulated, but unheated and not air conditioned basement, with a dehumidifier running in a different part of the basement.
Wayne
Outside, it is so much easier, although I usually solder to the rail joiner on the bench and then solder the rail joiner to the joint. Never had any problems.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
I solder most of my joints, and only one time did I regret it. I built a nice layout up in the attack in SC. laid the track from Fall through Spring. Now it was air conditioned but still it was gets warm, especially during the SC summers. Now let me get this straight, rail expands with heat right? It gets longer and when that happens it begins to curve and bend. I went up stairs after a few days and to my amazement I had a new layout plan that looked somewhat different from the original, with curves and bends that were not in the original design. What to do?
Well, I turned on the air then I began removing splices of tract to straighten it out. After several hours of removing track I was able to piece it back together again, but I saved the track I removed just in case when winter set in I might add track back. Like Dr. Wayne said, he solders his track but his room is climate controled and that is the way to do it.
Robert Sylkvester
Newberry-Columbia, SC
A solder thread I missed? Hmm, must have been sleeping.
I solder two pices of flex track, then leave the next gap free, then solder the next two pieces - seems to be plenty of room for any movement, and each soldered section of flex track has feeders to the free joints do not need to caryr power.
When I do this, I put some paste flux in the rail joiner, attach the two pieces of track, and then apply the iron to the inside and solder to the outside. How loose are rail joiners, even brand new ones where it's actually hard to slide the seconts together? Loose enough that solder cna wick right under fromt he outside. There should never be blobs of solder - if there are, you're doing it wrong. I apply solder along the outside, the flux and capillary action draw it to the inside, where it forms a smooth fillet right at the line where the joienr meets the rail. Not going to interfere with wheel flanges, unless I run something with pizza cutter wheels, which will hit the ties and/or spike detail on code 83 track anyway. The end result is a nice smooth layer of solder around the base of the joiner, no blobs inside or out. Painted with the rail, it all disappears.
Note I do not use heat sinks of any sort, and have not melted any ties since first trying to solder rail many many moons ago with a far too large of a soldering iron. Which did not have a nice clean and shiny tip AND I was trying to solder to old and dirty brass rail. A good clean tip and the flux make sure the solder gets where it needs to go and no where else, quickly without having to hold heat on the rails long enough for it to migrate down to the ties and melt them.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I too have been solding all rail joints since the days of first layout with TruScale wood roadbed track in 1969. Today I use Atlas flex for the most part.
Never melted a plastic tie, never used a heat sink.......
Never had any expansion issues.
Being a DC modeler, insulated joints or open gaps every 20' to 40' are typical for me (length of a typical mainline block). They always seem to provide enough expansion/contration allowance.
And, I too have always built layouts in well insulated, reasonably well climate controlled, stable environments.......
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALNever melted a plastic tie, never used a heat sink.......
I bought a bundle of used Atlas track for a dollar at a train show just to practice soldering. It wasn't until I got my soldering station that I stopped melting ties or using heat sinks. With my soldering station, I can get the temp of the iron up so high that I am in and out before the plastic knows I was ever there.
My Father-in-law bought me the soldering station and showed me how to use it. Of course, he had a big role in building the first cellular network in Canada and knew about such things.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Just a side comment.
Some of the forum members have recommended using solder paste instead of conventional solder 'wire'. I bought a tube of 'Solder-It' a while ago but I hadn't really used it much until I was wiring some control panels for the club over the last two days. Well, everything they said about the benefits of using solder paste is true! I had a number of situations where space was tight and I needed three hands to do the job. After fumbling with conventional methods and frying a couple of micro switches because my hands were too shaky to hold the solder steady on the joint, I got out the solder paste and it made things so much faster and easier, and I didn't fry any more toggle switches. I just ordered two more tubes.
Here is the stuff. Give it a try. You will be impressed.
http://www.solder-it.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=162
As usual no affiliation, but if you are really happy with the stuff and want to reward me for my suggestion, I'll be happy to accept some significant monetary rewards!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
If you ever watch any of Big Clive's videos on YouTube, ones where he actually makes something instead of tearing apart and showing how unsafe some cheap stuff is (over there they have Poundland, it's like a dollar store in the US), you can see the technique I've come to use as well (developed independently of ever knowing who Big Clive was) when you need 3 hands. The hand holding the 'loose' component - wire, IC, resistor, whatever, also holds the solder wire and feeds it,. other hand holds the iron. Can't really explain how to do it, you have to see it. I while ago, someone remarked on a different forum abou Big Clive's technique, which I hadn't really noticed before, and when I next watched him solder, I realized that's how I've always done it too.
When it's two loose pieces, like soldering a wire to a rail joiner where you can't create a mechnical connection first, then I resort to the alligator clips of the "helping hands" tool. Two wires - you should first make a mechanical connection so now there is only one moving piece. I cringe when I see people just lay the bare ends of two wires next to each other, barely touching, and solder it.