About a yr. ago, I was going to see if I could scratch bash one, like I did with the rolling lift bridge I built, Which has yet to be installed on the layout. I have a problem with My right shoulder which has yet to be fixed and It is started to look like it might never be totally fixed. A gift from Vietnam in 67'. Anyway I gave up looking for fodder for the vertical lift bridge and decided to buy the one CMR makes..........even if I never install it on the layout....it will keep Me busy.
So far it looks like it can be challenging......so it will be right up My alley.
No trees to cut parts from sprues.....It is all laser cut acrylic......6lbs of it in sheets and other parts that are already ready to assemble......very hard to tell that they were cut from a sheet. I still am reading all the instructions and trying get familiar with all the parts and what sheet they are on, there are 11 sheets of pre-cut parts.
If you do not like to read.......this kit is not for you......
I'll try to keep the thread updated and show any progress or problem's that I run into. Not thinking of starting for a few days.
Take Care!
Frank
That looks like a fun and challenging kit to build, Frank.
What kind of cement will you be using for the acrylic joints?
My winter project will be a laser cut, two story PRR "Harris" tower that also requires over a dozen sheets of instructions.
http://thenarch.com/products/harris-tower-ho
I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.
Regards, Ed
I too will be following you bridge build. That kit is on my wish list. Wow what a cool kit !
Thank you for your service. You Vietnam guys never get enough credit. There are Americans that know your sacrifice of service. We stand by you gladly.
Patrick
Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb
Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.
Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.
gmpullmanWhat kind of cement will you be using for the acrylic joints?
Ed,
They recommend Tenax-7R, (no longer made) Plastruct plastic weld, Bondine Solvent Cement. I will be using the Plastruct plastic weld orange bottle. I have great success with it. All joints will have to be lightly sanded before bonding, but I do that anyway, so I am used to it........doesn't take as long as some think and produces a very strong bond. I will be using a Solvent Syringe, works a lot better than any brush. Your project looks interesting also.......never heard of the Mfg'er before:
Patrick,
Thank You for Your kind remarks........lost a lot of friends over there. I still have dreams of it.
As far as the kit goes.......get one when You can, You'll enjoy the challenge. That kit also comes with approach girder bridges 65'footers with piers, which make the total length of the bridge 46''3/4'' when used. They are very friendly and helpful people. I spoke to them by phone a couple times.
I don't know if You ever saw My scratch/bash bridge I made....... the one that is not installed yet! LOL I laugh, but it is not really funny.........can't run a train without it........maybe also this winter.....God willin'.
I copied the bridge from plans of a Scherzer rolling lift bridge, but had to vertically compress it, to fit where it has to go to complete My double track mainline:
Yes, your scratch built bridge I too drooled at. Wow !
Can't wait till you start your new bridge. Please share your progress when ya do start her.
Frank, before I even buy this kit. I have been pondering how to make it operate. Lately,I've been learning more about N20 motors to power my gantry crane. While doing so. I started thinking about bigger HO objects like the lift bridge.
I think the N20 geared motors might be a we bit small for lifting that bridge. So why not Tamiya geared motors ? That might do the trick.
What are you going to use to power the bridge ?
I just had an oopp's moment.....I was going to show You with a diagram on how I was going to power the bridge.....but, just learned My printer is out of ink. It shows that it has ink, but does not print correctly, (sign of it's out of ink) even though it shows there is some. More than likely it dried out. I havn't used it in quite a while. I'll have to order some.
Anyway, My discussion with the owners of CMR say they know of two people who have powered it and they say that they both did a good job. When I am ready......they will let Me know how to contact them.....but they must ask permission. My fiddiling leans Me to having two motors on the top towers that powers the cable wheels......one turning clock-wise the other couter-clockwise, that will wrap the cable around the pully's. I was thinking of using #30 gauge stranded ultra flexible wire. I have some by Miniatronics that would work.....will have to test. Theory being, if there is the correct amount of tension on the pully's, they should grip the wire, without slipping. May have to insert a gear in the pully halfs for grip. There will also have to be a shaft on both sides of the towers to connect all the pully's together....each side has three (3) pully's......motor would be connected to the shaft at the center. The bridge and the weight would have to slide easily up and down the towers. When I get that far......I will make My decision on whether to power it or not. All I can see at the moment is that it will not be easy.
I started on it yesterday and have completed one truss......30 separate pieces. The Plastruct works like a charm with the syringe dispenser. I lightly sanded all center pieces before bonding AND that is the key. Once you put a bead of solvent along the sides, capillary action draws it into the sanded surface and almost immediately it welds together and is extremely strong even before it cures. I used 180 grit air-file paper, that I have a lot of, from when I did body work. I like it because it is thick paper.
I will insert some pic's later.
A couple of photos of a bridge truss completed and one of the parts that are to be glued to one side first....then glue the face truss with rivet detail to it.
The parts that were used were in clear zip lock bags, no need to do anything to them....except of course, I sanded the edges. The laser cuts are square and true.
The numbers on them, I did so there was no mistake when getting ready to glue them to the truss, all are different lengths and match the cutouts in the truss:
They are 16'' long:
So Far everything going smoothly.......every part matches perfect.
That sure looks like a fun project Frank. Sure wish I had one or a place to put it. looking good..... Carry on
zstripe gmpullman What kind of cement will you be using for the acrylic joints? Ed, They recommend Tenax-7R, (no longer made) Plastruct plastic weld, Bondine Solvent Cement. I will be using the Plastruct plastic weld orange bottle. I have great success with it. All joints will have to be lightly sanded before bonding, but I do that anyway, so I am used to it........doesn't take as long as some think and produces a very strong bond. I will be using a Solvent Syringe, works a lot better than any brush. Your project looks interesting also.......never heard of the Mfg'er before: Take Care! Frank
gmpullman What kind of cement will you be using for the acrylic joints?
I'm going to following your build project as well, as i need some sort of lift bridge (actually 2 of them) at the entrance to my train shed.
BTW I have used both of those solvents for gluing before. I actually perferred the Tenex7 to the Plastruct stuff.
But when I bought a whole box of the Tenex stuff for future use, I found that it evaporated even out of the unopened bottles,...very disappointed.Joe Fugate over on MRH entered a discussion on these gluing products, and highly suggested a product, Ethyl Acetate. I bought some right away so I would not forget the recommendation,...but I have not had a chance to use it yet. You might enter a search for the term over on that forum and find the discussion.
And yes I did like the use of a solvent syringe. In fact I had a capillary tube I used as well.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Here is a link to that discussion, 'MEK as Plastic Cement'https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/8083?page=3
...also
Ethyl acetate ... lifetime supply, $20 Thu, 2018-02-08 15:09 — joef I got a can of the stuff from Amazon, and as a prime member, shipping was free. It's a lifetime supply. MG Chemicals Ethyl Acetate, 945 mL Metal Can Price: $19.95 Free Shipping for Prime Members Link: http://a.co/ewmi9aj ​Also, I prefer to use plastic needle bottles to apply this stuff -- it protects you from the fumes and it's a quick and precise way to apply it. Needle bottles from Amazon: PJ's Precision Applicator Kit Price: $8.74 Free shipping for Prime Members Link: http://a.co/hP3FYrF ​The 27 gauge needle works great for applying ethyl acetate to styrene modeling projects. Just fill the bottle about 1/4 full and use it to apply very precise drops of glue.
I got a can of the stuff from Amazon, and as a prime member, shipping was free. It's a lifetime supply.
MG Chemicals Ethyl Acetate, 945 mL Metal Can Price: $19.95 Free Shipping for Prime Members Link: http://a.co/ewmi9aj
​Also, I prefer to use plastic needle bottles to apply this stuff -- it protects you from the fumes and it's a quick and precise way to apply it.
Needle bottles from Amazon:
PJ's Precision Applicator Kit Price: $8.74 Free shipping for Prime Members Link: http://a.co/hP3FYrF
​The 27 gauge needle works great for applying ethyl acetate to styrene modeling projects. Just fill the bottle about 1/4 full and use it to apply very precise drops of glue.
Brian,
I appreciate Your advice, but unfortunately, at 76 I'm stuck in My ways and do what works for Me and what I am comfortable with. I am a subscriber to MRH and have read the article before. To be perfectly honest....I do not agree on some things that Fugate says........reread first sentance. That being said, I have used all the adhesives that have been mentioned. Tenax7R evaporates too fast......due to one of the ingrediants in the formula. The Plastruct Plastic Weld is basically the same formula as the Tenax, without the evaporation problem.....be using it for about 28yrs. or longer. The Ethyl Acetate I also used before and although it is good, I cannot use it. The vapor to Me is much stronger than the MEK and irritates My eyes along with breathing........just can't see My self wearing a respirator to build a model kit. Did enough of that when I painted Trucks/Cars professionally.
So far the Plastruct is working perfectly on the Acrylic.......weld takes place in seconds after solvent is applied. My dispenser is a 27 gauge also. I actually got it from CMR with the bridge.
So far everything is going great......part fit is perfect, but it does require patience and concentration.
Edit: Just thought I would mention this if You don't know already...Acrylic is more brittle than Styrene or ABS. It will break before bending much in the thickness that the bridge is primarily made......so give that some thought when thinking of using it on a lift-out, without a sturdy support.
I seem to remember that the Plastruct Plastic Weld took longer to work than the Tenax??
zstripe About a yr. ago, I was going to see if I could scratch bash one, like I did with the rolling lift bridge I built. Anyway I gave up looking for fodder for the vertical lift bridge and decided to buy the one CMR makes..........
About a yr. ago, I was going to see if I could scratch bash one, like I did with the rolling lift bridge I built. Anyway I gave up looking for fodder for the vertical lift bridge and decided to buy the one CMR makes..........
Frankie, how could you? Doggone it, you beat me to it. I have wanted to build a vertical lift bridge forever, one modeled after the PRR lift bridge at 21st and Canal in Chicago.
I have started a new layout, and I have a space reserved for the CMR double track lift bridge. So, I am really looking forward to your progress reports. A couple of years ago, I called CMR and talked to them about the possibility of converting the angled towers into totally vertical towers, similar to the towers that support the PRR vertical lift bridge in Chicago. They were willing to provide extra parts to achieve that design.
I admire your ambitousness in tackling the operational aspects of the vertical lift bridge. I tried to make the Walthers Bascule Bridge operational, but I finally gave up in frustration for several reasons.
Please keep up posted.
Rich
Alton Junction
railandsail I seem to remember that the Plastruct Plastic Weld took longer to work than the Tenax??
Not if you lightly sand the mating parts that you want to weld......the sanding breaks up the surface tension of the material that you want to bond and gives the solvent a head start in the welding and produces an even stronger bond. I have mentioned this before to some that claimed the same thing...until they tried sanding first.....and it works! I have been doing that for yrs. on many models and it works for Me. Takes a little longer.......so what! As long as it works, is the end result that I'm looking for and the solvent with the capillary action flows to the sanded parts immediately.....not floating around on some outside part that you don't want it on and leave a smudge.
Richie,
You silly! I told You last yr. I was either going to scratch one, bash one or buy one.
I may not try to power it......so far I see alot of reinforcing on the main structure to get it to work reliably........and I honestly do not know if I'll be around to finish it. So I may just build it and enjoy watching trains go over it whie I still am around. LOL
Couple of pic's of the completed main bridge structure. All 94 separate piece's later and a lot of measuring, test fitting parts more than once and finding a way, with jigs I made to have more than two hands on some of the parts.
The next few days, I will give it a coat of primer to see if there are any large seams that I may have missed.....hard to see some times with parts being all white. I will be using Automotive Acrylic Enamel primer in My air-brush.....it is a Lacquer base primer with acrylic pigments in it. Then working on locating all the parts needed for the towers, which will be next.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Wow, Frank, I am impressed. You have been at this less than a week and already have the bridge itself completely assembled. Quite a feat!
I have a few questions for you.
1. Gluing. What are you using to apply the glue? Brush,sponge, etc. Do you apply it to both parts that are to be joined? Are you able to completely avoid messing up the smooth surfaces adjacent to the glued surfaces?
2. Painting. I have no experience with an airbrush, as I have always painted structures with a brush. When I paint something with lots of intricate parts like the bascule bridges, I paint the subassemblies before gluing together the entire assembly. Given the fact that you have already fully assembled the main bridge structure, I assume that the airbrush can reach and cover all of the interior areas of the entire main bridge structure. True?
3. Kit Building. After you mentioned the 94 separate parts, I downloaded the instruction sheet to see what is involved in the assembly process. Yikes, this is a lot more involved than building the Walthers Bascule Bridge. How long does it take for the glued parts to set up and dry? Any screwups along the way?
4. Approach Bridges. So, you have the bridge assembly complete and the tower assembly is next. That also appears to be an intricate assembly process, but once you are done with that, you are well on your way to completion. You have titled this thread as a Winter Project, but it looks like you will complete it well before the start of winter. Do you plan to also build the approaches bridges? My plan is to skip that part of the process. Do you see any problem with that?
Hi Frank,
This is a very interesting thread. Lots of helpfull tips. Your progress to date is impressive, and I'm sure the finished product will be too.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Rich,
I feel that I'm on the witness stand........must be the Lawyer in You..LOL
If You reread My comments, I have already mentioned most of Your questions.
Gluing...I'm using Plastruct Plastic Weld orange bottle.....for use on Acrylic, with a syringe dispenser that CMR sells, (bought with the kit, the hole in the syringe is the same size as a #80 drill bit) that I run a bead of solvent down the seams of the parts I want to bond. Capillary action immediately takes place and the solvent flows right into the parts that are sanded eliminating almost all/any smudges of glue. The weld takes place in seconds, but you still have a little time to make sure they are perpendicular to one another. Then go on to the next piece. The key...is sanding, every part that is critical........I do every part, goes faster than some think. ONE OF THE POINT'S THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT, that I would like to point out......the truss sides with the notches in them..... try not to get much solvent in them, because the bottom deck, the top stringers must be aligned by those notches and they have parts on them that go into the notches. If there is too much solvent in them the parts won't go in far enough and leave a gap. I had a couple that I missed on one side, but I caught it before bonding. I then sanded all the ends smaller on the remaining ones in case I missed any others and that worked even better. I can't stress this any better...Sanding is the key with this particular kit. Like I also mentioned, I use air file paper 180 grit.....mainly because of the thickness, plus I have a lot of it.
Painting.....They said they used Krylon spray primer and Krylon spray flat black.....stay away from Acrylics they warn. There is a reaction to the acrylic which I never heard of before, they say it will shatter the acrylic......Along with any Alcohol cleaner or paint........new one on Me. I've painted acrylic before with Tamiya paint and never experienced any problems. I will be using Automotive primer in My airbrush......because I'm good at it! At 35psi..it will get into any nook & cranny you want when you adjust the paint flow for what you want I will be using Model Master flat black over the primer and ScalecoatII aged concrete fo the weights? I have it already, but I'm not certain I like the color.........I'm swayed toward more tan color for aged concrete than gray.
I probably will not use the extensions either, but will build them anyway!
I got addicted to building it.........it's going together easier than I anticipated. All the parts are precision cut.....no nubs to clean or sand and they all fit perfect. I give them credit for that. But don't skimp......read the directions over and over.
I'm taking a break from the stand....LOL.
Bear,
Your comments as usual, are warming and inspiring.LOL
Keep checking WPF You will see JaBear construction Diorama photos on there shortly. I'm just about done with laying the gravel on the base......everything else is completed.........there are so many lights...it looks like a little city.
I hope You read this cause I would like to know if You have a favorite or lucky number...........the Bear was into circle track stock car racing so We need a number.
zstripe Rich, I feel that I'm on the witness stand........must be the Lawyer in You..LOL BLAH, BLAH, BLAH I'm taking a break from the stand....LOL. Take Care! Frank
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH
Barrister Rich
Frank ...... Wow ! ..... this looks like a great project...... Thanks for sharing .
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Frank, are you done yet? Seems to me that you have had enough time to complete the bridge by now.
zstripe......the Bear was into circle track stock car racing so We need a number.
Bear, Thank You for the comeback......I'll give it one of the couple numbers I used to use............
I have one of the tower basic's ready to go. Will have one more to build, exactly the same. By no means does this represent a completed one......there is still many more parts that must go on each tower. This one took roughly 8hrs. to do:
I can't believe how solid these things are once all the pieces are glued together. They appear to be on the fragile side, but once it's all together, it's solid, like a block of wood:
I plan on primering the main structure tomorrow.
Take Care, All and Thank You for all the comments,
Great work, Frank. Nice pics. Keep 'em coming.
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
Well....I was back at it early this morning to prime the main bridge, but before I did. I had three top truss braces that were bowed and the more I looked at it.....the more I said I did not like it. Those are the pieces that I did not sand the edges before bonding them.....it was not that they didn't fit, it was more of them being not square where they go in the notches in the side truss. The solvent when settled followed the low side and made the center bow. I knew from past experience that it would be impossible to try and take it off without breaking it. That is one of the natures of Acrylic. When solvent welded, the weld will not break, but the surrounding area will. So I decided to modify the look with Central Valley Laced girder halfs and glue them to the top braces,(I had a lot left over from other projects) that did the trick and I think it looks even better now than just the plain top brace that it came with. Makes it more robust looking. I air-brushed the primer on at 35psi and it took exactly 3oz for two coats. Lot of nook & cranny's to get at, but the air-brush worked like a charm.......not sure what a rattle can would do, mainly because it would be hard to get into the inside. I think also that a brush would be near impossible, unless you want to spend all week painting it.......
Tomorrow will be to build the other tower. God Willin'.
zstripe Well....I was back at it early this morning to prime the main bridge, but before I did. I had three top truss braces that were bowed and the more I looked at it.....the more I said I did not like it. So I decided to modify the look with Central Valley Laced girder halfs and glue them to the top braces,(I had a lot left over from other projects) that did the trick and I think it looks even better now than just the plain top brace that it came with. Makes it more robust looking.
Well....I was back at it early this morning to prime the main bridge, but before I did. I had three top truss braces that were bowed and the more I looked at it.....the more I said I did not like it.
So I decided to modify the look with Central Valley Laced girder halfs and glue them to the top braces,(I had a lot left over from other projects) that did the trick and I think it looks even better now than just the plain top brace that it came with. Makes it more robust looking.