I foresee a problem...

[SpaceMouse]

And I am musing about the solution. Ultimately, I can see ravaging my basement and running trains all over the place. The way that I can see that happening is if my son and I can both run trains at the same time. That means DCC. Now I can imagine saving up and spending eleventy gillion dollars on a loco for me, but I'm not sure my son is going to outgrow his el cheapo Bachman's Hogwart's Special any time soon.

If I wanted to, could this engine be converted to DCC? Can I lift the body and mount it on a better motor/chassis with DCC. I'm assuming that there is no better quality Hogwart's loco being produced.

[Anonymous]

I have not done it. But, I imagine that with a little work you can fit a decoder in that engine, and that is probably the prefered method. You could regear and remotor but I would not think that it would be necessary.

[tstage]

SpaceMouse,

You're a busy guy today. From what I understand, most DCC systems will allow you to run at least one (1) DC (not-decoder) locomotive on your layout. I'm assuming that you can run a DCC & DC locomotive simultaneously. (Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Actually, I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.)

I would have to agree with slashsplat. The Hogwart body is most-likely based on another locomotive that Bachmann already makes so you should be able to outfit it with a decoder. (May be a bit of a challenge but it should be doable.)

I checked both the Bachmann website: (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/index.html) and another distributor. The Hogwart is a 4-6-0 configuration. Bachmann has two styles of locomotives based on that configuration: one with 52" drivers; the other, 63" drivers. (That's in prototype measurements.) I would guess that the Hogwart is based on one of those two locomotives. Just to be sure, call Bachmann and ask them directly if you can retrofit a decoder into the Hogwart, their recommendation for a decoder, and any precautions, if any. It's best to call Bachmann rather than e-mail them. They are much better at taking phone calls than answering e-mails.

Tom

[darth9x9]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

SpaceMouse,

You're a busy guy today. From what I understand, most DCC systems will allow you to run at least one (1) DC (not-decoder) locomotive on your layout. I'm assuming that you can run a DCC & DC locomotive simultaneously. Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong. (Actually, I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.)

Tom

Actually only one brand let's you run a non-decoder equipped loco and that is Digitrax. But why would what to destroy your engine? For if you do run the loco (or even leave it on the tracks) the armature will burn up after a while. I have seen it happen too many times. I guess some call it a feature, others may call it a bug.

[tstage]

Bill,

I believe the new Bachmann E-Z Digtal Command system will also allow you to run one train on DC. (Function button 10?) With only 1 amp of power, you will probably only be able to run one locomotive anyhow.

I admit, I'm not an expert on DCC. I'm still learning. That's wny I left myself open to being corrected. Thanks!

Tom

[darth9x9]

Hey Tom,

I stand corrected and you are right, the Bachmann E-Z Digital Command System let's you control analogue locos. I found a write up at:
http://www.mgsharp.com/bachmann_e-z_dcc.htm

I guess this is a good marketing strategy as many people will have to buy new locos to replace the ones that get burned up. I wonder how many model loco manufacturers have stock in Digitrax or Bachmann (or vise verse). Interesting....

Bill

[jrbernier]

Most DCC system will allow you to run a DC engine on address 0. The biggest problem is that 'zero stretching' really sucks up bandwidth, and this may delay other DCC packets when being sent to DCC engines. I have seen club layouts where there are a fair number of trains running, and it really can mess up the control of those trains when a DC engine is fired up on address 0. Some clubs do no allow DC engines to run under DCC.

Jim Bernier

[NZRMac]

Your right about the dc interfering with dcc. I run both on my Lenz system and there's a slight delay before the dcc loco responds.

Ken

[Paul3]

SpaceMouse wrote:

QUOTE: ...but I'm not sure my son is going to outgrow his el cheapo Bachman's Hogwart's Special any time soon. If I wanted to, could this engine be converted to DCC?

Yes. As long as you isolate he motor from the frame. In fact, Digitrax has an installation application for this loco, printed below (I updated for the new decoder, the DH123 vs. the old DH121):

Installation of Digitrax DH123 in Bachman Hogwart’s Express
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many thanks to *** Sutcliffe, Superintendent BR &T Railway Co. for this application note!

Install the DH123 in the tender
1) The tender is easy to open by removing two screws so you can pull the decoder out and put in a plug when running on DC layouts.
2) Use a piece of styrene to raise the decoder off the weight.
3) Notch the front edge of the tender frame to bring the wires through to loco (all power pick up is in the loco).
4) Split the loco frame to isolate the motor brushes, remove the contact springs in the frame & heat shrink the wires to the brushes.
5) I drilled & tapped a couple of 2/56” screws into the frame halves for the track pickup connection.
6) Runs quite well but I am planning to put wipers on the tender wheels to spread out the pickup and improve operation

darth9x9 wrote:

QUOTE: Actually only one brand let's you run a non-decoder equipped loco and that is Digitrax. But why would what to destroy your engine? For if you do run the loco (or even leave it on the tracks) the armature will burn up after a while. I have seen it happen too many times. I guess some call it a feature, others may call it a bug.

I have never seen that happen in the last 6 years I've been using Digitrax DCC at my club or on my home layout. Admittingly we don't leave non-decodered engines on the layout all day long, but for an hour or so we've never had any such problems like you state. Sure, it will happen, but with common sense, it's not a problem.

For more info, read the following link (at the bottom):
http://www.digitrax.biz/faqbasic.php

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[rrinker]

Exactly, I've been running various brands of locos without decoders with my Digitrax system for some time now, and NEVER had one get even WARM. I do not leave them sit still on the track for long periods of time though - if they are on the track they are moving.
In fact, the pulse-like nature of the DCC signal worked wonders in getting a never-run very stiff Bowser PRR T1 running.
Coreless motors though, should NEVER be put on DCC track without a decoder. Those WILL melt in short order. But they will ALSO melt if you use an older DCC decoder that does not support 'high frequency' or 'silent running'.
Most of this I think is rumor from the one company who shall remain nameless who does not support this feature.

--Randy

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by darth9x9
Actually only one brand let's you run a non-decoder equipped loco and that is Digitrax.

All of my DCC systems (MRC, Lenz, Digitrax) run a non-decoder equipped loco. By definition they have to. I believe it is in the DCC bit encoding standard, S.9.1, that specifies that the 0 channel will be able to be stretched. If a signal is stretched in such a fashion it will run a DC locomotive. Therefore this means that if a "brand" does not support this stretching on channel zero it is not really DCC at all. The "DC support" was one of the trickiest parts of the original DCC requirements to figure out how implement. It is also the main requirement that eliminated any of the other command control systems available at that time from even being considered as a standard.

QUOTE:
But why would what to destroy your engine? For if you do run the loco (or even leave it on the tracks) the armature will burn up after a while. I have seen it happen too many times. I guess some call it a feature, others may call it a bug.

I don't know your definition of burn up, but this has not been my experience. I've run many DC locomotives on the DCC systems. Even for long periods of time (like all day on a layout at the NMRA convention, GATS, etc.). The only negative effect I've noticed is the annoying high pitched whine, hum, buzz, what ever you want to call it, when the locomotive is stopped. On the other hand I've never left a DC locomotive just sitting on the track either. Mostly because the noise gives me a headache, but also because I can't help but thinking that the high frequency signal will have a demagnetizing effect on any permanant magnets in the motor. Is this what is being called burning up? I've been told, by several experts, this is not true and irrational, but I'll probably never get around to actually testing it scientifically. So for the moment in my book it is in the "Urban Legend" category. What exactly has happened to your locomotive(s), and are you certain it is because of the DCC signal and not some other factor? [?] At a local club they were burning up all sorts of things (mostly light bulbs). Investigating we discovered the system was internally set up for the larger scales. Although there was a 15 volt input supply to the DCC system it was changing the voltage on the track up to 17.5. Once the unit was opened up and a few jumpers flipped to set track voltage down to 13.5V there have been no more problems. So burning things up in this case was not the fault of DCC but simple operator error.

[SpaceMouse]

Great info guys.

Thanks Paul. I copied that info and emailed it home.

[mcouvillion]

SpaceMouse,

I pulled the shell off my nephew's Hogwart's Express to service the motor and do general maintenance before running. It was a bear to get off and another to get back on. The problem is a sliding mechanism on one side (the reverse lever, I believe). It is difficult, though not impossible, to get everything aligned so that it all goes back together properly. I do not remember any room at all in the engine for a decoder, so the instructions for the installation in the tender are welcome. Leave yourself plenty of time and proceed with caution. If you get frustrated, put it down and walk away for a little while. I hope you can get it apart, and back together, easier than I could. By the way, I am not inexperienced in taking engines apart.

Good luck.

Mark C.

[darth9x9]

First, let me say that I love to learn new stuff. The DCC world has had my attention for the last few years and I am trying to master it. If I am wrong about anything, I publicly admit my ignorance and march on being a little more educated. Second, I don’t want to start a flame war but I would like to encourage intelligent, logical and reasonable thinking. That being said;

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher
I believe it is in the DCC bit encoding standard, S.9.1, that specifies that the 0 channel will be able to be stretched. If a signal is stretched in such a fashion it will run a DC locomotive. Therefore this means that if a "brand" does not support this stretching on channel zero it is not really DCC at all.

Texas Zepher really worries me. S.9.1 does NOT talked about the 0 channel being stretched but rather the 0 BIT that is stretched which is completely different. You can read the standard at: http://www.dcc.info/standards_rps/S-91-2004-07.pdf

This is further proven as the broadcast address for all mobile decoders is address 0 (00000000). This can be read at: http://www.dcc.info/standards_rps/rp932.html#F:%20Broadcast%20Address%20For%20Basic%20Decoder%20Transmission
(read F: Broadcast Address For Basic Decoder Transmission)
All mobile decoders must respond to address 0 such as Emergency Stop. Address 0 was never meant to run analog locos but a couple of manufacturers have cleverly found a way to 'tweak' the system to allow it.

Stretching the 0 address is NOT part of the NMRA DCC standard.

As for engines being burned up, what do you call a non-DCC loco that no longer makes the high whiny sound and won't move? That is a loco that needs a new motor from sitting on a DCC track too long. Unfortunately, this process is cumulative so doing only an hour at a time won’t prevent the damage that is being done to the armature.

Lastly, to say that a system that doesn't support address stretching really isn't DCC is completely irresponsible.
[2c][soapbox]

[SpaceMouse]

Not to hijack my own thread, but can I buy a replica of the train--I think it was a English 2-6-0 and paint it to match? Where would I find such a thing?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by darth9x9

Originally posted by tstage

SpaceMouse,



Actually only one brand let's you run a non-decoder equipped loco and that is Digitrax.

Whoa!!! Who did the Digitrax con job on you? EVERY system I looked at prior to converting to DCC supported running at least one non decoder equiped locomotive. I tested a DC loco on my EasyDCC system earlier this week. Digitrax is a good system, but lets not spread falsehoods.

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