[quote user=
SeeYou190 4) The mountain really did look like a volcano from a 3rd graders science fair project. It stood about seven feet from base to top, and the top was flattened off. It cleared the ceiling by about 3-4 inches. I am guessing the sides were about 30 degrees off of vertical. -Kevin .
4) The mountain really did look like a volcano from a 3rd graders science fair project. It stood about seven feet from base to top, and the top was flattened off. It cleared the ceiling by about 3-4 inches. I am guessing the sides were about 30 degrees off of vertical.
-Kevin
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Did anyone else read that and immediately think of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, where the main character builds a mountain like that on his train table?
See, it wasn't really a layout, Kevin. He was recreating a classic sci-fi movie scene!
- Adam
When all else fails, wing it!
BigDaddy Not sure why she should have had steins at all as she was Latvian, not German.
Not sure why she should have had steins at all as she was Latvian, not German.
The Baltic countries (Latvia, Lithuania & Estonia) have gone back and forth over the years between Russia, Sweden, Poland and Germany (actually, Prussia before Germany became a country in the 19th century). IIRC there are parts of those countries where people still speak German and have German food and customs.
BATMAN There is an old saying; He who dies with the most toys wins. For me it will be; He who requires the most dumpsters to get rid of his layout wins. It only takes one call to the auction house or estate liquidator regardless of how much you have, just one call. I have been the guy that has made that call and the only question I was asked was how big a truck do I need to bring.
There is an old saying;
He who dies with the most toys wins.
For me it will be;
He who requires the most dumpsters to get rid of his layout wins.
It only takes one call to the auction house or estate liquidator regardless of how much you have, just one call. I have been the guy that has made that call and the only question I was asked was how big a truck do I need to bring.
Now as to the value of trains. It realy depends on what you paid for an item that desides if you lost or broke even or gained. Most of my stuff gained in value when I went to downsize but then I paid as little as 10 cents on the $ for alot of it and most I paid about 1/3 retail. After all fees were paid I about broke even, did better than most but no windfall. Just an example I remembered is paying 10cents a pair for Kadee #5's to someone who was going for another coupler, bought about 100 pair.
BATMAN SeeYou190 This was not my intention. I just wanted people not to mislead thier next-of-kin about the value of the trains you are leaving behind. I just wonder if putting an over-inflated value on his trains was his way of justifying buying them in the first place. Justifying buying things you can't afford is like justifying statistics. I knew of a guy (a good friends neighbour) that spent his retirement savings on a brand new supposedly rare Dodge Viper. He told his wife it will go up in value way faster than any investments they have. He also told her he would never drive it, he would just store it (in their open carport). That lasted about six months, then he told her he needed to drive it on occasion or the engine would seize. Well, you can guess the situation they are in now many years later. The Viper looks more like his daily driver.
SeeYou190 This was not my intention. I just wanted people not to mislead thier next-of-kin about the value of the trains you are leaving behind.
I just wonder if putting an over-inflated value on his trains was his way of justifying buying them in the first place.
Justifying buying things you can't afford is like justifying statistics.
I knew of a guy (a good friends neighbour) that spent his retirement savings on a brand new supposedly rare Dodge Viper. He told his wife it will go up in value way faster than any investments they have. He also told her he would never drive it, he would just store it (in their open carport). That lasted about six months, then he told her he needed to drive it on occasion or the engine would seize. Well, you can guess the situation they are in now many years later. The Viper looks more like his daily driver.
Doughless I assume as I get older and slow down, I'll probably not want to maintain as much stuff and will reduce things along the way for that reason, at some point. I wouldn't start foregoing enjoyment just so my wife would have to deal with 50% as much stuff. But I plan to put in the effort to give my loved ones some options. "Here's what each piece is worth if you want to take the time and effort to sell them piecemeal.'" "Here's what they are worth if you call a model train dealer." And she can figure out anything else. Model trains are about the only items that are solely attributable to me that she wouldn't know what to do with. So I'll give her a little guidance to use if she chooses.
I assume as I get older and slow down, I'll probably not want to maintain as much stuff and will reduce things along the way for that reason, at some point.
I wouldn't start foregoing enjoyment just so my wife would have to deal with 50% as much stuff.
But I plan to put in the effort to give my loved ones some options.
"Here's what each piece is worth if you want to take the time and effort to sell them piecemeal.'"
"Here's what they are worth if you call a model train dealer."
And she can figure out anything else.
Model trains are about the only items that are solely attributable to me that she wouldn't know what to do with. So I'll give her a little guidance to use if she chooses.
And, to that end of "less to maintain", I am selling the big Victorian house, and the rental properties, moving into a brick rancher, with much simpler landscaping, building a layout with no hard to reach hidden staging and no double decks, with wide aisles and easy access.....but it will fill the 1600 sq ft.......
Hopefully I still have about 20 years left, I plan to have fun........and die with all my toys: trains, 1700 vinyl records, hi fi gear, guns, and maybe a hot rod or two.
Sheldon
PS - Included with the trains are nearly complete collections of Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman going back to the 1950's. I don't plan to throw them away before I die either..........
- Douglas
SeeYou190 selector He had her labouring under the illusion that his hobby was also an investment of sorts. Had he informed her, correctly and honestly, that as soon as he received each shipment and purchase they were reduced to about 40 cents on the dollar-value, she might have begun to resent how self-serving and indulgent he was. . This might be. I do not know anything of the relationship. . I am glad my wife understands that the money I spend on trains is recreation/entertainment, and it will never be recovered. I would not like to have to lie about anything to get her to accept my hobby. . -Kevin .
selector He had her labouring under the illusion that his hobby was also an investment of sorts. Had he informed her, correctly and honestly, that as soon as he received each shipment and purchase they were reduced to about 40 cents on the dollar-value, she might have begun to resent how self-serving and indulgent he was.
This might be. I do not know anything of the relationship.
I am glad my wife understands that the money I spend on trains is recreation/entertainment, and it will never be recovered. I would not like to have to lie about anything to get her to accept my hobby.
Is that not what I said at the beginning of this thread? That my trains are bought with the same kind of money others use for vacations or dining out, never to be recouped.
Brent is right, one call, let them haul it way.
selectorPrecisely so. By continuing to claim that they had an inflated value, he continually reinforced her assumption that much or most of the 'investment' could be recouped in a sale/auction when they needed to liquidate.
Ever notice some of the going prices for the hard to find locomotives?
The I&O GP30 and the OC GP7 sells for around $300.00 if you can find them.
There several hard to find locomotives that demands a high price.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Living the dream.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
SeeYou190 How did this turn into a thread about how big a model railroad layout should be? . This was not my intention. I just wanted people not to mislead thier next-of-kin about the value of the trains you are leaving behind. . -Kevin .
How did this turn into a thread about how big a model railroad layout should be?
This was not my intention. I just wanted people not to mislead thier next-of-kin about the value of the trains you are leaving behind.
Because the freelance estate planners seem to think at age 65 we should all just settle for a spare bedroom layout, 5 locos, and 23 freight cars so we are not a "burden" when we die.....
Brent said, "...I just wonder if putting an over-inflated value on his trains was his way of justifying buying them in the first place..."
Precisely so. By continuing to claim that they had an inflated value, he continually reinforced her assumption that much or most of the 'investment' could be recouped in a sale/auction when they needed to liquidate. He had her labouring under the illusion that his hobby was also an investment of sorts. Had he informed her, correctly and honestly, that as soon as he received each shipment and purchase they were reduced to about 40 cents on the dollar-value, she might have begun to resent how self-serving and indulgent he was.
This may sound unkind of the departed, and that we are making unwarranted assumptions. It is hard to argue, though, with the figures and assumptions attributed to the widow in the OP. Where else did she acquire the gross misapprehension attributed to her at the outset? A bad memory?
SeeYou190This was not my intention. I just wanted people not to mislead thier next-of-kin about the value of the trains you are leaving behind.
UGH! My Dad is a collector of fine crap. I am the agent in charge of the estate for my Mom and three siblings. We have a lawyer as an executor, but even the lawyer is getting up in age. LOL. My Dad owns three properties, two in Pennsylvania and one in West Virginia. He has no less than 4 vehicles. 50 or more firearms. A ton of railroad related items, and when he found out about "the internet" (aka EBAY to him), he went on a buying spree of Lionel crap. I tried to tell him and my Mom that that stuff goes in cycles and will not be worth what he paid for it in a few years, but he is older than me (meaning much wiser) and didn't want to hear it.
Last year I told him that it was about time to start divesting of his "collections" since he was almost 70 years old. The first thing he put up for sale was his 1986 Harley Softail Classic. It sold right away. He has regretted it since the day the guy came to pick it up and refuses to put more stuff up for sale.
I told him and my Mom that if anything happens to him, that I am going to have to come back to Pennsylvania for about three years just to get rid of crap (I live in (Montana).
My Dad always said "Just think of the auction you kids will have when I am gone." I kind of figure the property in WV will be gone soon as he has finished building his camp...and if there is no work to be done, then he loses interest. A second property is the home my brother rents from him. I will offer it to my brother for market value minus 1/4. If he wants it, then it is his. If not, then it will all be sold at auction with everything else, including the great Lionel collection, railroad lamps, locomotive bell, ride-on tin trains, and the restored gas pump.
I tried to be reasonable with him to get rid of stuff and enjoy the money while he can, because I have no illusions of some grand inheritance.
Robert H. Shilling II
riogrande5761 I'm reminded of a parable Luke 18:9-14
I'm reminded of a parable Luke 18:9-14
?.
I'm not bragging abiut my 1600 sq ft, in fact just the opposite. I know lots of modelers with way more space, way more means, and way more time for modeling than me.
And I'm sure there are those with way less, I'm thankful for what I have.
My experiances simply don't support the "spare room" theory of the typical average active modeler, at least not in this part of the country.
In a local round robin of 30 guys, most with layouts, only one was that small, about 12 x15.
Most range from twice that to over 2500 sq ft.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
tloc52 Let’s see. I agree when rereading what I wrote it seems I am telling you what to do. That intent was not there, it is a suggestion, but did not come across that way. Sorry for that. I will stand behind what I say about 100’s of locomotives for a 10’x12’ layout. Not 1600 sq ft like yours but what is the typical American spare bedroom of 120 sq ft. Do I have immediate proof for you Sheldon that is typical because I know you will challenge that and the answer is no but I read it somewhere recently on the internet. We all know the internet is perfect in its facts. The thing I could never understand about people are buyers of stuff that they don’t use or need and then post on a sell site somewhere because of medical or car repairs or something else they have sell this item. We all should live our own life, some like you and me are prepared for our trains to be handled in a certain way when we are gone, many are not. Tom
Let’s see. I agree when rereading what I wrote it seems I am telling you what to do. That intent was not there, it is a suggestion, but did not come across that way. Sorry for that.
I will stand behind what I say about 100’s of locomotives for a 10’x12’ layout. Not 1600 sq ft like yours but what is the typical American spare bedroom of 120 sq ft. Do I have immediate proof for you Sheldon that is typical because I know you will challenge that and the answer is no but I read it somewhere recently on the internet. We all know the internet is perfect in its facts. The thing I could never understand about people are buyers of stuff that they don’t use or need and then post on a sell site somewhere because of medical or car repairs or something else they have sell this item.
We all should live our own life, some like you and me are prepared for our trains to be handled in a certain way when we are gone, many are not.
Tom
Tom,
I agree, I don't even begin to understand people who buy trains and then have to sell them to pay their bills. We have a few people on this forum who have admitted such?
As for the average layout space, or the average retiree's layout space, I don't pretend to know that any more than I pretend to know what is their best estate planning choice.
BUT, here in the Mid Atlantic, where I have lived my whole 61 years, and know lots of modelers, I don't know one person with their layout in a 10 x 12 spare room.
Around here, even the modest ranchers of many retired folks come with 1200 sq ft basements. In fact most housing here comes with a basement.
So my 1600 sq ft space is pretty typical in my experiance.
rrebell ATLANTIC CENTRAL SeeYou190 Well, since this discussion has transformed into last wills and testaments... here is what the daughters are instructed to do: . My house is kind of a special circumstance. My property is worth the same with or without the house. The actual structure has zero value. . So, it will most likely be demolished by the next owner and another ugly 5,000 square foot monstrosity will be built in its place. Oh well, there goes the neighborhood. . So... they have been told to auction off the house "as-is, where-is, all cash, no contingencies". Let the model railroad layout fall victim to inevitable excavator that will be brought in to knock the house down. Split the cash three ways. . No problem. . -Kevin . Florida really is a strange place when it comes to Real Estate........ Sheldon Legal vebage in California is "where is ad sits", you can't sell a home out here as is, even though this says basicaly the same thing, avoids the 15 pages of disclosure statements!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL SeeYou190 Well, since this discussion has transformed into last wills and testaments... here is what the daughters are instructed to do: . My house is kind of a special circumstance. My property is worth the same with or without the house. The actual structure has zero value. . So, it will most likely be demolished by the next owner and another ugly 5,000 square foot monstrosity will be built in its place. Oh well, there goes the neighborhood. . So... they have been told to auction off the house "as-is, where-is, all cash, no contingencies". Let the model railroad layout fall victim to inevitable excavator that will be brought in to knock the house down. Split the cash three ways. . No problem. . -Kevin . Florida really is a strange place when it comes to Real Estate........ Sheldon
SeeYou190 Well, since this discussion has transformed into last wills and testaments... here is what the daughters are instructed to do: . My house is kind of a special circumstance. My property is worth the same with or without the house. The actual structure has zero value. . So, it will most likely be demolished by the next owner and another ugly 5,000 square foot monstrosity will be built in its place. Oh well, there goes the neighborhood. . So... they have been told to auction off the house "as-is, where-is, all cash, no contingencies". Let the model railroad layout fall victim to inevitable excavator that will be brought in to knock the house down. Split the cash three ways. . No problem. . -Kevin .
Well, since this discussion has transformed into last wills and testaments... here is what the daughters are instructed to do:
My house is kind of a special circumstance. My property is worth the same with or without the house. The actual structure has zero value.
So, it will most likely be demolished by the next owner and another ugly 5,000 square foot monstrosity will be built in its place. Oh well, there goes the neighborhood.
So... they have been told to auction off the house "as-is, where-is, all cash, no contingencies". Let the model railroad layout fall victim to inevitable excavator that will be brought in to knock the house down. Split the cash three ways.
No problem.
Florida really is a strange place when it comes to Real Estate........
Legal vebage in California is "where is ad sits", you can't sell a home out here as is, even though this says basicaly the same thing, avoids the 15 pages of disclosure statements!
Just another in a long list of reasons why I don't live in California, Maryland is bad enough..
I am dealing with this right now: both parents are now in a home of some sort, and never returning to the house Dad designed and built, and they lived in for 58 years.
Via word of mouth and reputable advice, I have a professional auctioneer cleaning out the house. One truckload is gone already (parents kept everything...even their parents' report cards). It was very very difficult just dealing with my sister on all this. She had to look at everything and took a lot of little things of value that I wanted sold to raise more money for the parents. I live relatively close, as in 90 miles away, and will be the executor when all is said and done. What doesnt' sell at auction will go to flea market. The rest will be loaded into dumpsters at far less cost than I can possibly rent them if I do it. They get 30% and hopefully the house will get fully emptied and my parents will get the other 70%.
My sister and a grandmother and aunt were all painters...my sister took the best paintings and forced me to take a couple that I didn't want. I got two that I liked. Rest should have sold. A coworker may buy a couple paintings from me. Now a bunch of those paintings are in my parents' suite at the one home...
All I took was a cordless weedwacker. There still were a few old Tyco freight cars remaining...
Dad, a fine carpenter, designed my woodwork for the train layout to unbolt in sections. My layout is only very modest, but I even am concerned about the burden for my wife. She says "keep it, use it, enjoy it" and maybe we'll sell the house and trash it in 6 years or so once the boys are "out" of the house.
John Mock
tloc52 It is interesting on how Model Railroaders think. I regularly look at 3 forums and since last week each have a similar thread to this one. If you plan on dying, have the conversation with your partner, spouse and/or children. Is our stuff worth anything, if you are being honest, it is not worth a lot. So sell it now, don’t make your heirs do it. It is much easier to sell now via FB sites or group io sites than it will be for them. Basically, downsize to what you as a modeler really need/use. When I retired in 2014 and moved I had been buying for that retirement layout. I picked an era, 2005 and discovered 60% of what I had was too old or newer than 2005. That’s when I discovered the HO selling sites. Then I switched to 2015 and I am still selling. Do you really need 100’s of locomotives for that 10’x 12’ room size layout that you operate as the lone wolf? Make a will, set up a trust but do something. Many comments, but not here, have said, I will be gone and won’t care. Don't do that to your family. Tom
It is interesting on how Model Railroaders think. I regularly look at 3 forums and since last week each have a similar thread to this one. If you plan on dying, have the conversation with your partner, spouse and/or children. Is our stuff worth anything, if you are being honest, it is not worth a lot. So sell it now, don’t make your heirs do it. It is much easier to sell now via FB sites or group io sites than it will be for them.
Basically, downsize to what you as a modeler really need/use. When I retired in 2014 and moved I had been buying for that retirement layout. I picked an era, 2005 and discovered 60% of what I had was too old or newer than 2005. That’s when I discovered the HO selling sites. Then I switched to 2015 and I am still selling. Do you really need 100’s of locomotives for that 10’x 12’ room size layout that you operate as the lone wolf?
Make a will, set up a trust but do something. Many comments, but not here, have said, I will be gone and won’t care. Don't do that to your family.
Again:
As a modeler, I have NEVER bought stuff that does not fit my era and theme, so I have no excess stuff to get rid of.
My retirement house layout space is 1600 sq ft........I do need my 135 locos.
And, as I challanged just two posts above, if I should get rid of my trains, why should I not get rid of all my other personal belongings? Can I keep the TV or a few copies of MR to read while I wait to die?
And my trains are already covered in my will.......
A good friend and fellow modeler passed away several years ago. His family still maintains his layout in the basement. No rush to sell, give away, or throw out all his wonderful craftsmanship. And it is an exceptional layout, once on an NMRA national convention tour.
I find it interesting how many people think they know what is best for others, especially others who they do not even know personally. Personally, I'm not much for telling others what is "best" for them, or their loved ones.......
God will come for us all in his own good time.......
I think you could have left off the last 6 words
As for the mountain on this layout - are we sure the guy wasn't just being subliminally told where to go to meet the aliens?
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
kasskaboose What a sad, albeit notable, topic to discuss with family and/or friends. You guys further validate the value of not going "lone wolf" in building a layout. There are plenty of nearby clubs, hobby stores, or donation places that can probably use old stuff should you have no use. Simply waiting to pass before worrying about them is a plan for disaster. While I have plenty of years before retirement, I don't want to ever leave this Earth with my layout as a burden. Ever. That said, please discuss this topic with someone to avoid putting others in a difficult situation. Sorry if this is too much to ask. You guys are a community that continues to help me enjoy model train, so pls allow me to assist you in doing research on where you can donate unwanted (unneeded) stuff. In exchange, pls continue to provide me assistance. Deal?!
What a sad, albeit notable, topic to discuss with family and/or friends. You guys further validate the value of not going "lone wolf" in building a layout. There are plenty of nearby clubs, hobby stores, or donation places that can probably use old stuff should you have no use. Simply waiting to pass before worrying about them is a plan for disaster.
While I have plenty of years before retirement, I don't want to ever leave this Earth with my layout as a burden. Ever. That said, please discuss this topic with someone to avoid putting others in a difficult situation. Sorry if this is too much to ask. You guys are a community that continues to help me enjoy model train, so pls allow me to assist you in doing research on where you can donate unwanted (unneeded) stuff. In exchange, pls continue to provide me assistance. Deal?!
Sorry if I'm not really into the spirit of this conversation, but let me get this right.
It is bad to leave your model trains as a "burden" to your family when you die?
What about all the rest of your personal junk possessions you are going to leave them to sort out when you die?
What makes the trains such a special problem?
I explained earlier that mine are already delt with - my son gets them, even before my wife dies if I go first. If he does not want them, she can do what she wants with them, or they can sit there. She's not going to need the basement for anything......
Dumpsters are filled every day with stuff from the estates of those no longer with us - some of it is really cool stuff, some of it is trash......one man's trash, another man's treasure......
The rest of you can do what you like, but I'm not going to give away all my stuff and wait around in front of the TV to die.
Our wills already read "being of sound mind and body we spent it all" so if the wife and I get hit by a bus tomorrow, the kids will have to sell the old house, the new house, the rental properties, the two relatively new expensive cars, the model trains, the collector china, the diamond engagement ring, the rest of her expensive jewelery, the 1700 vinyl records, the high end HiFi equipment, the guns, the $10,000 garden tractor, the tools (way more money there than in the model trains...), the antique furniture, and the books........
Somehow the trains seem just a small part of that task......
And if one of you goes first, who says you have to get rid of anything? Leave it for the kids to sort out when you are both gone, or when they put you in a home.
After everything we did for them, it's the least they can do.
You are only as old as you act.........or as old as your thought process......