On the original portion of my layout, I put down the cork using yellow carpenter's glue, temporarily holding the cork in place with partially-driven 2 1/2" nails (I had a 50lb. box of them left over after building my house). The nails were all removed the next day, and after sanding the cork, track was added, using nails to hold it in place. I've not needed to move any of the track that's on cork, but have removed some turnouts forming a crossover between parallel main lines, and managed to scrape away the excess cork between the two lines.
On the upper level of the layout, all of the cork was put down using contact cement, working to pre-drawn centrelines. However, after adding an interchange, I discovered that its tracks, leading to a staging yard in another room, were too close to the existing main line, leaving insufficient room to add a view-block for much of the interchange's track.I couldn't relocate the interchange tracks, as it would have created unsuitably tight curves through the room's wall, so instead, I altered the too-close mainline's curve to create the needed space.
Here's an over-all view showing the proximity of the curved main (between the temporarily-placed station and the hole-in-the-wall) with the interchange tracks at right, with the loco and short train on it...
As you can see, none of the track involved had yet been ballasted.The track throughout the mainline curve is all Atlas flex, soldered at all rail joints and held in place with nails. I used a cut-off disc to cut the rails of the main, just beyond the turnout which is under the caboose of the train in the foreground, above. The nails from that point, right through the curve, were all pulled, and I then manually re-aligned the curve to see what looked best and would still function properly. Once I found a reasonable compromise, I used a pencil to roughly mark the edges for removing parts of the existing cork on the outer edge of the original curve and for adding new cork on the inside of the curve. Here's a partial view showing some of the cork removed (a scraper and some elbow grease made short work of it) afer first using a utilty knife to cut a bevel along what was to become the outer shoulder of the new ballast line...
...and some new cork, or remnants of leftovers from the original, have been added under the moved track, which is already held in place with re-used track nails.
This work was carried through the curve until it reached a point where it transitioned into the original curve...
After all of the trimming of cork and clean-up was done, the free ends of the rails at the original cut were shortened and re-soldered at the original cut-point.
Here's the increased space between the two tracks, enough for a thin stone retaining wall, as most of this curve will be in a low rock cut. Trees and some extruded foam hillside should be sufficient to hide that portion of the interchange tracks....
With the track move completed, the main and visible portion of the interchange tracks were ballasted...
...and all tracks put back into service. Another vote for track nails.
Wayne
DoughlessSo for the track nail folks, do you use one nail through both the track and the roadbed or do you first nail down the roadbed to the subroadbed, then the track to the roadbed? So you would need to take up both nails to realign something.
The only way that makes any sense is to lay the cork first, which I lay on the center-line I draw, and fasten it down with nails. The go back and lay the track on top. Of course if you need to remove it to relay or to salvage, reverse the order. (naturally if everything is fixed with ballast, thats a different story - but nails, IMO, give you the best options if you are at that stage and need to remove for any reason)
My experience with caulk is that you just pry up the roadbed and the caulked track comes with it and move the whole thing a bit.
I use Atlas track nails to attach my cork as well as the track. I learned that technique from old Atlas books years ago and it works just fine. I put nails every 3 inches on the straight sections and about every 2 inches on curve sections. When it came time to break the layout down and I had not ballasted it yet, I took needle nose pliers and pulled out the nails and recovered all of the cork.
Here are photo's of the cork going in with nails, and later recovering it when the layout was torn down - I salvaged everything for re-use due to the no-adhesive methods and no mess either, no water to soak glue. No caulk to have to scrape off the bottom of track or cork to clean it up, nothing.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Doughless Okay, on the subtopic of making changes, we're talking about taking up both the track and the roadbed, and not just the track from the roadbed? Doing the latter would be a problem, no? So for the track nail folks, do you use one nail through both the track and the roadbed or do you first nail down the roadbed to the subroadbed, then the track to the roadbed? So you would need to take up both nails to realign something. My experience with caulk is that you just pry up the roadbed and the caulked track comes with it and move the whole thing a bit. I don't know if either way is a real problem or an advantage, just want to be clear as to what's being talked about.
Okay, on the subtopic of making changes, we're talking about taking up both the track and the roadbed, and not just the track from the roadbed? Doing the latter would be a problem, no?
So for the track nail folks, do you use one nail through both the track and the roadbed or do you first nail down the roadbed to the subroadbed, then the track to the roadbed? So you would need to take up both nails to realign something.
I don't know if either way is a real problem or an advantage, just want to be clear as to what's being talked about.
Correct, I nail down the cork roadbed first, and then nail the track to the roadbed.
Bubbytrains
- Douglas
Nails. That allows you to easily make changes. Once ballasted, you can remove the nails if you don't like the looks of them. They don't bother me. I just paint the nail heads to blend in with the ties.
Trainman440 I guess I'll stick with just using some glue afterall... Charles
I guess I'll stick with just using some glue afterall...
Charles
Nails or spikes didn't sound appealing? The sure work well for me and I can't tell you how many times I've had to lift track to re-lay it and it was so much easier pulling out the nails or spikes than having to pry the track up from the adhesive, and risk damaging it.
To me, adhesives and glue seem too permanent too quick. I'd rather get the track down solid but have my options left open until I am satisfied with the geometry and arrangement.
I definitely guess I'll stick with nails and spikes after all. YMMV
Once you have your roadbed in place, you can solder several lengths of flex track together, then use nails to install it. This is especially useful on curves, and there's no need to add weight to keep it in place, as with caulk or glue. If you get called away or need to take a break, no clean-up is necessary, and you can return to the job at any time. If you need to realign the track or make adjustments, pull the nails, do what's necessary, then re-install the nails. They can be removed after ballasting, if their appearance bothers you. Use regular blunt-nosed pliers to install the nails, not a hammer: grip the nail with the pliers to insert it into the hole in the tie, and push it into position to start it into the cork or plywood, then release the grip, close the pliers, and use the side of them to push the nail home, applying as much force as is necessary, directly above the nail, with your free hand.Nails aren't a great choice on foam, but will work temporarily (as will "T" pins) if you plan to add ballast (using diluted white glue or matte medium) before running trains. I discovered this when helping a friend, who opted for extruded foam as the surface of the layout, with Woodland Scenics soft foam roadbed. I didn't at all care for working with the latter, but the process has weathered the test of time.
Where I used the Central Valley tie strips, they were cemented together using solvent-type cement. I then drew a centreline for the cork roadbed (or for the track, where it was to be layed directly atop the plywood) and applied contact cement to both mating surfaces, using a 1" brush.After the cement had dried for the specified time, I placed some waxed paper atop the cork or plywood, then positioned the moulded-on indicators on the ties over the centreline, pressing down firmly while withdrawing the waxed paper.
Turnouts were installed next, using a combination of contact cement and nails. I then soldered rail into the lengths necessary to reach from turnout to turnout, or completely through curves, usually 12' or 15', then installed it using the contact cement and waxed paper method. The only waiting time, about 15 minutes, is that which is necessary for the contact cement to dry, as per the manufacturer's suggestions, before bringing the mating surfaces together. The "working time" is stated as one hour, and if you're well organised, a lot of roadbed/ties/rail can be installed in that period.
Thankyou alll for replying!
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
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Step 1: Apply very thin layer of adhesive caulk applied with an expired credit card or similar card.
Step 2: Lay up to 3 feet of track on caulk
Step 3: Lay 3 X 1 section(s) scrap lumber on track
Step 4: Lay bricks on lumber
Step 5: Go back to building a model industry
Bear "It's all about having fun."
IRONROOSTER I glue the cork roadbed and then use track nails for the track. The track nails have pretty thin heads and are black. I have trouble finding them if I need to take the track up. But that could be my old eyes But since I don't see them in the ties, they're fine for me. Paul
I glue the cork roadbed and then use track nails for the track. The track nails have pretty thin heads and are black. I have trouble finding them if I need to take the track up. But that could be my old eyes But since I don't see them in the ties, they're fine for me.
Paul
Similar to what Paul wrote above. Micro Engineering makes great track nails. Did anyone else find that ballasting the track keeps it from rising up? Curious if the OP should go that route instead?
Interestingly, how flat the track is depends on the shipping method(s). One place I bought track had it bound to 1x2's. That kept the track from being uneven. MB Klein bound the track together. They told me that connecting it to 1x2s increasing shipping charges big time.
rrebellI thought I would have to buy all new turnouts when I moved but was able to save 90% of them (had a few curved that were too fragile).
I don't caulk down the turnouts, I do make sure the track is really secure where it meets the turnout at all connection points though.
I paint under the turnout, ballast grey, and then after installation, I take a paintbrush and carefully paint some glue in between the ties and then sprinkle just a few grains of ballast between each tie. Looks great and when the T/O is taken up there is nothing stuck to it.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Use caulk and ballast with matt medium over cork. If you want to reuse a turnout that is installed that way, all you do is slide a puddy knife under the cork so you can remove it, then remove the caulk and ballast by soaking it in a bucket of water. I thought I would have to buy all new turnouts when I moved but was able to save 90% of them (had a few curved that were too fragile).
LION uses NAILS.... foold you, you thought that I would say caulk.
Nails work good on a fiber base such as used by LION... holds good, easy to remove and realign tracks.
Him tried nails on pink foam boards. Works good if sliding you want to prevent, but lifting up is a problem. LION nails directly to foam, and then runs a bead of Elmer's glue down the center line, paying particular attention to covering the nail heads.
Ballast? LION uses CAT LITTER, him gluse it not. Makes it easy to move tracks.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Nails or ME spikes for track. Ballast dilute white glue or matt medium.
For the main level of my layout, I used Atlas track secured with nails, either through the cork roadbed, which was affixed to the plywood sub-roadbed with carpenter's yellow glue, or, where the track was directly on the plywood sub-roadbed, directly into the plywood. All nails were pushed into place using pliers, never hammered in. While they're somewhat visible, I don't plan on removing them, even though the ballast holds everything securely in place.. The advantage with nails is that a few days after fastening everything in place, I could go back and re-align places that needed adjustment, often doing so simply by applying lateral pressure to one side of the nail's head...
For the partial upper level, I used mostly Central Valley tie strips, either atop cork or directly on the plywood surface of the entire upper level. Both the cork and the tie strips were fastened in place using contact cement, as was the Micro Engineering rail....
The turnouts (Atlas, Micro Engineering, Shinohara, and Peco) are held in place with contact cement and/or nails, while the Central Valley turnout kits use mostly contact cement. (In the photo above, the track is freshly ballasted, with the tie-tops still wet.)
My club has laid the track using just nails to start. The reason was that it would be easy to realign the track if need be. In a club environment there may be several people laying track who have varying skill levels. If someone doesn't get the track down quite right it is easy to correct. For example, our primary track layer refuses to use a straightedge. We have adjusted some of his work. Of course we did it when he wasn't around and we never said anything to him.
Another situation arose where the person who was laying the main yard misinterpreted the instructions that he was given and cut the yard tracks where they didn't need to be cut. With only nails holding the track in place it was easy to pull up the shortened pieces of track and replace them with full lengths of flex track. We could have left the short pieces in place, but that would have required that we install more feeders in an area that will already have a lot of wiring under the layout. The short pieces were quickly used up in other areas.
Another reason for using just nails to start is that we didn't know what the benchwork would do as the seasons changed. This is our first year in the new club house. We did in fact have some track distort within a few days of it being laid.
Ultimately, the track will be glued down quite firmly when we install the ballast. Until then the use of nails by themselves makes getting the track aligned properly very easy.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
The use of Liquid Nails in track work is downright destructive. WAY too permanent! You can kiss goodbye any track you need to relocate or even adjust, and you'll be surprised how much you may need to. I wasted plenty of expensive Micro Engineering flex track learning that mistake.
I use nails, with the intention of letting the ballast hold the track in it's final position. Then the nails can be pulled if distracting. Caulk would be a good alternative as attested above, but by all means, AVOID Liquid Nails! Dan
I have been known to use both. It just depend's on if it's a straght section ( calk / glue ) or curve section ( nail's )
But be careful using nail's , if you drive them in too far they will pull the track out of gauge.
Rust...... It's a good thing !
Nails .... If track is causing derailments, you can easily remove it so you can correct the problem with replacement track.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
I use nails, which blend in with the sleepers once they're painted. Then when I ballast the track, the glue from that holds the tracks in place.
The Location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest, OregonThe Year: 1948The Scale: On30The Blog: http://bvlcorr.tumblr.com
Hello all,
With 15-inch minimum curves in HO scale:
I use GE brand silicone caulk to adhere the roadbed to the blue foam base. Spread it evenly with the putty knife. Any cleanup can be done with water and a damp cloth.
Then I “T” pin the track to the roadbed.
I ballast the track, as in the thread I listed above.
Once the ballast in set I remove the “T” pins. After 24-hours the roadbed, track and ballast are set.
Remove the “T” pins and move onto the next section.
When I need to adjust the roadbed I can peel it up and remove the caulk from both the roadbed and blue foam base.
If I need to adjust the tracks after ballasting I just soak the area with water, let the glue dilute then remove the track.
To thoroughly clean the track I wash it in warm water with “blue” dish soap until the track(s) are free of debris.
I understand that you would prefer to not use track nails. With this method the final ballast holds the track in place with only using the “T” pins to allow the glue to set.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I give my cork a thinned coat of grey craft paint after sanding. Then use gray latex caulk spread thin with a putty knife and set the track on top. In a few places I may have to put some weight for an hour or so, but mostly a thin layer grabs it just fine.
I've used clear caulk for putting down cork, but lately use gray for the whole process.
It also has the advantage of making it look a little more finished until you get around to ballasting.
Don
Tacky Glue/Weldbond They're pretty similar. I think the squeeze bottle makes it easier to apply than caulk.
Jim
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
BigDaddy I don't know why you would use both. I'm a caulk convert.
I don't know why you would use both. I'm a caulk convert.
I have found that using caulk on cork roadbed is perfect, it holds like a really, really strong fridge magnet. For some reason, I have found using caulk on some types of wood to hold track is a really strong joint that is sometimes hard to pull apart. Usually, when I am mounting directly to wood it is for a temporary purpose so I will use a nail or two.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Nails.