a current thread regarding a young adults attempt to build a layout seemed to highlight the reality that model railroading and the responsibilities of early adult life, in particular college, are not compatible.
i often read posts lamenting that there aren't enough kids involved in the hobby or how to encourage them.
Like many of you, I saved my pennies and built a small layout while in high school. But by the time I was in college studying engineering, i didn't have time for it. I also tried building a small layout after getting married when I bought a house. But I eventually realized that kids and work on the house didn't leave much time for it.
I think model railroading is not well suited for young adults because, unlike many hobbies, it requires 1) a dedicated space, 2) a commitment in time to build, complete and maintain, besides 3) $$
I think the more likely way for young adults to participate is if they can help a parent or nearby group who are the primary builders of the layout.
I assume my experiences are similar to many of you. But if they are not, how were you able to participate in the hobby while in high school, college, post college and as a parent?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
https://sites.psu.edu/mrrc/
Greg, I believe I understand what you mean, and I mostly agree. But, not completely. I don't see this as an either/or situation. Depending on one's motivation, and how much weight one assigns to a given undertaking or passion, we all organize our time accordingly. And our talents...and moolah.
If one has the support of important and influential people around oneself, and is willing to dedicate the time and other requisite resources, we can all do pretty much what we want, when we want.
Some of us become skirt chasers full time, others take apart lawnmower motors and fix 'em (or so we tell each other ), or we collect comic books. A fully functional model train layout isn't beyond the pale in my view. It may be difficult at that age, 14-28, but it's by no means impossible.
A lot of colleges have model railroad clubs, a chance to gain experience without having the problems of building and maintaining a layout by yourself.
“Is this really a hobby for young adults?”
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
It is.
But like many, I had to keep it small. I had 4x8 in the second bedroom when our first child was born. But I immediately built the second layout in the master bedroom 6x6.5 - it was a pretty large bedroom and my wife is fairly understanding.
Over the next several years and moves I started several small layouts some of which had track. I also built a few models. But mostly I did very little while my three sons were growing up.
Paul
Why not for young adults???
When I attended Penn State University, there was a model railroad club conveniently located in the basement of the Hetzel Union Building. You could grab a cheeseburger at a snack cafeteria and go hang out in the model railroad club between classes for an hour or so, without needing to walk back to your residence, either on or off campus. We had a lot of fun running that layout!
I worked weekends for a good train store, and trains were still expensive back then versus the minimum wage I earned. In fact, I think they are actually cheaper today relative to pay rates and cost of living (more detail, but the detail is offset by Chinese labor/price markup structure). I'm still financially strapped today: kids' travel baseball, possible transfer to a private Christian school from public school. It never gets easier.
There never is or seems to be money enough, yet I make do.
I have coworkers who go spend an awful lot of money on golf. Between the cart fee, the playing fee, and the drinks/food before and after, I can skip the lousy golf, and purchase a gorgeous HO Intermountain Autorack instead--and have something for my money spent. I'll take the autorack every time!
It's all a question of priorities. Where there is a will there is a way.
When I was single, before wife and kids, I had much more disposable income than ever since. I was able to buy any kind of train I wanted. In my first apartment, I had a 5'x9' flat table spaghetti bowl of track layout, and was able to run some brass articulateds on it. I had a blast with it.
I will turn 50 in a few weeks. I patently reject the thought that the hobby is "too expensive" for today's generation. I would say that there are a lot of colleges offering totally worthless degrees (as in would you like fries with that because you will be working fast food) for far too much money. Some people are foolish enough to get those degrees. We have been sold a bill of goods that everyone needs a college education. Sorry, not true.
My wife earned a B.S. in Psychology. She can make more money working fast food or at a pet store or as a teacher's aide than working in her field.
Just as in Indiana Jones, people "choose poorly".
If I had it to do over again, I'd have skipped college and worked for the railroad. My mother wouldn't let me do that when I was changing majors at the time. Guess what? Working for the railroad I would actually be making more money than after 26 years in professional engineering. Funny how things turn out.
John
I think it all depends on the individual. My previous layout started in my late teens and continued into my young adulthood in the early-mid 1990s. As a young adult I had my own job and my own car, so I was free to go to hobby shops and train shows in the area. My interest in the hobby also waned during young adulthood (mid-late 1990s) due various factors, i.e. career, my other pursuits (music, community activism, travel), but also because I had grown frustrated with HO scale because the curves on my layout were too tight for the rolling stock I wanted to run and the hobby was no longer fun for me anymore. So then my layout gathered dust for years. It picked up again in 2006 after I dismantled that layout, sold off my HO collection and switched to N scale, where I had a renewed interest in the hobby due to getting acclimated to N scale and building a new layout.
I left the hobby in my early teens. Too many other interests and no desire to build a new railroad. My role model was a neighbor who had an around the basement layout. We did not have a basement, just a room, we called the utility room and the 4x8 took up a lot of space and the plasticville structures weren't very pretty.
Came back in my early 30's when I did have a basement, left in my late forties when I gave my house to a woman I didn't like anymore. and then back again in my early 60's
If I was a teenager today choosing between a DCC loco and an Iphone, I would chose the phone. It's not just that MR is too expensive, the cost of living in the modern world...netflix, cell phone, laptop, internet access, movies are all more expensive. Even if you have enabling and spoiling parents, it costs a lot to keep a teenager in the manner they would like to be accustomed to.
My college did not have a model railroad club, but we all got a good laugh at the freshman orientation meeting, when a kid, with a high pitched, nasal voice asked "Does this school have a fencing team" We did not have one of those either.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
It is all about choice in life. I still don't get it when people consider that getting married and /or having kids isn't a choice. I didn't get married and have kids until I was forty and quite a few of my friends are still not married and some of those that are never had kids. Think about what you want out of life and get going. Nothing bad will happen to you if you stay single and take advantage of all the things the world has to offer including playing with trains.
Having two kids was without a doubt my best adventure and it shot by in a flash, so now it is back to other things. Raising kids should be your primary interest when you have them. Unfortunately, we have had to take in a few for short periods of time on occasion as their parents considered them things that got in the way of their lives.
You can't have it all in life, but you can have an awful lot of it, choose wisely.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
gregcI think model railroading is not well suited for young adults because, unlike many hobbies, it requires 1) a dedicated space, 2) a commitment in time to build, complete and maintain, besides 3) $$
First,yes young adults can enjoy the hobby even those in the Armed services.
Second..Why not build a small layout or perhaps a ISL instead of jumping straight into the basement filling dream layout?
Third. Idle minds and hands can lead to a great down fall with alcohol and drugs. A easy trap to fall into and one that can be easily be avoided.
Fourth. If Rod Stewart could build structures while on tours why can't one build structures while in college?
Fifth.Use your free time wisey and don't waste it doing things that gives nothing in return except maybe a wheelchair or worst a casket..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I joined the hobby at age 10 and built a layout at age 13. I left the hobby totally at age 16 when cars, girls, college, then young career-build simply took over until age 28. Then, I began to buy MR again and built a few models in my singles apartment. Got married and bought a house and after a couple of years of getting that put together, built another layout, then another until a recent move has left me layout-less at age 54.
There is a long time to pursue this hobby and just because they don't have the time, space, or funds to enjoy it totlly how they want there is likely going to be time when they can. Stay tuned in and never give up the dreams.
- Douglas
Life has many decisions and most of you would not make the choices I made.
I have been in the hobby all of my life. There have been periods when there was no free time for hobbies, but I felt I was a model railroader in spite of that.
I recall busy college years when I worked full time while being a full time student simultaneously. Not much time for trains, but I did what I could.
I like seeing the older, more experienced model railroaders who patiently encourage younger. less experienced model railroaders to improve their skills.
Conclusion: .... Model railroading is for all ages.
It is fun for all !
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
rrebell Life has many decisions and most of you would not make the choices I made.
Perhaps so....but we're all here, ain't we? We have a mutual love for railroading or the scale versions of them, all 13M across the globe. We all do what we have to to achieve our aims. For some of us, it's whining to our parents for some discretionary cash/space/time. Some of us find other ways. You found your way. We all ended up here, in our train rooms, or our beds while we read ourselves to sleep, married, divorced, repeated....s'alla same.
Some bright person opined in mixed company, "Where there's a will..."
BTW, and no bank will recognize this currency, but I'm glad you're here.
-Crandell
When I was a young adult, I was on active duty and just the two moves I made to different bases precluded participation in the hobby. I tried to work on Athearn BB kits, only to ship them home to my dad to store for when I got out. Then, getting out and going to college sort of preoccupied my time- not to mention social pursuits. By the time I considered returning to model railroading, I was a homeowner and settled- sufficient factors that allowed for more permanent planning and participating. When you are young, young folks' "fancies" tend to turn in other directions than assembling rolling stock and laying track.
Cedarwoodron
Bucksco https://sites.psu.edu/mrrc/
Unfortunately, not for much longer. They are losing their space.
I remember having my Lionels when I was 5 years old. When I grew a bit older, I sold them and switched to HO, which I built and worked on through my teenage years. When I went to college, I was told to pack them up, which I did. They ended up in the basement. After my Mom moved and that house got sold, I moved the boxes of trains from apartment to apartment to apartment, and finally to my house, without ever opening them. In about 2000, I was 53 and finally had space and time. And money. I loved it, and I was able to start and continue a layout. The 30 years from college to then was a time to keep my trains on hold, almost forgotten, but they were never lost.
My twenties, thirties and forties were simply full of other pleasures and treasures, young ladies and finally my daughter, the youngest lady of them all.
I don't regret the path my trains have taken. They were there when I wanted them as a boy and as a young man, and they were there again to bring back to life in middle age.
As much as we like to think of this as a hobby for everyone, it really is for those who have the space, time and money to do it right.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasleyI moved the boxes of trains from apartment to apartment to apartment, and finally to my house, without ever opening them.
I have a similar story. Moving a few boxes full of train stuff around with me through my entire life was nothing. I started R/C airplanes 46 years ago and they were a bear to move with their 6 foot wingspans. They did come along and in my current house were put in the crawlspace when we moved in, in 1996. IT looked like a small airport down there when I would go down to get the Christmas stuff. There they sat all perfectly functional and ready to go, until our flood last November.
The insurance money will buy me a couple of BLIs CP 2-8-0s. So maybe all those aircraft relocation trips were worth it.
My hobby and layout has basically relied completely on my parents paying for the large expensives. They have the house I am building the layout in, they payed for the turnouts, they paid for the benchwork, they paid for some of the rolling stock, and they paid for the NCE system that runs the layout. I am building it, and most of the rolling stock and locomotives are mine; but the layout itself might as well be theirs. College also means that I am rarely able to dedicate much time to work on the layout. It took me a year to get the benchwork, track, and backdrop done. Now I am slowly picking at scenery. Its a "as time is available" hobby, and often it is easier to sit down and read a book about the hobby during a busy day than it is to find time to set up a work space on the kitchen table and build something.
Is this a hobby for young people? I think it could be. It needs people willing to invite a few of the younger guys to their ops sessions, for the younger guys to meet up together and share ideas. I am building a layout at my parent's home. Some of my friends own a few locomotives or structures they scratchbuild in the dorm room then place in storage for that future layout "someday." Others offer their aid in building layout's owned by older model railroaders, to gain experience working on somebody else's layout.
cedarwoodronWhen you are young, young folks' "fancies" tend to turn in other directions than assembling rolling stock and laying track. Cedarwoodron
For years I avoid that rat trap but,alas I ended up married.Thankfully my wife fully understood my passion for trains.
Even when I worked on the Chessie I found time to read,study or build BB and Roundhouse kits.You see when you're seventh or eighth out at your away terminal you have time to kill.
PRR8259 My wife earned a B.S. in Psychology. She can make more money working fast food or at a pet store or as a teacher's aide than working in her field. Just as in Indiana Jones, people "choose poorly".
Yeah, my 1st wife decided to get a bachelor's in music before we married. Strike 1. After we married she decided to take classes and got here real estate license. Listed a house but bailed on that career before she made a penny. Strike 2.
Then she got accepted into a PhD psychology program but didn't want to make the sacrifices the school demanded and didn't go beyond a few years. Strike 3. The rest is history, we separated and got unhitched.
Of course like music, with psychology you really need a PhD to make money and have a good career. But even back in the 1980s most people knew which degrees were pretty useless with only a bachelor's degree. Yet kids still chose those "starving artist" paths. We still hear the refrain in the media, follow your dreams. Sure, a few do and get lucky and find success in that. Then there is John's wife, my ex and countless others littering the landscape.
I knew a woman where I used to live who had a masters in chemistry. All she could get were jobs in labs which ended up being crappy dead end jobs. She ended up selling cars last I heard.
Yes, choose wisely young Padawan.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Like Mel, I got an early start in the hobby from my father. For years when I was small, he set up a very a "advanced" Christmas Garden for the holidays.
Once we had a house with a basement, he built an even more eleberate layout and turned it over to me at about age 12.
While I have not always had a layout, I have been active in some way in the hobby ever since, clubs, building models, etc. I am now about to be 61.
We all make choices in life, one of mine was model trains. It is likely that I skipped things others would not have skipped, so that I could be active in this hobby.
Even at age 12/13, I earned my own money for the hobby.
My first real job at 14 was in the local hobby shop, by age 20 I was managing the train department in another local shop. But by age 23 I moved on to other employment, self employment actually, but never left the hobby.
Heck, I was married at 19 and was about to be a father for the second time at age 23, but that never stopped me from keeping some sort of hand in this hobby.
I have a simple life statement that sums up my choices in life - "I was once well rounded until I learned what I really liked - and I learned that at a young age".
I'm not a social bug, never been a party person, I don't go with the crowd. I did not attend full time college, I don't hold a degree. I am largely self taught in a lot of different areas, with some college and technical classes thrown in.
So I did not spend four years of my life "finding myself", I simply got on with it.
No doubt I march to a different drum.
As a few others have said, it is all about the choices.
I can assure you that had I stayed single until 40 like Brent, I would not have had any children........I love my children, I would not trade them or my grandchildren for 100 million dollars, but if I had to raise the the next one full time, well I would rather not. I can't imagine being my age and having children just getting out of school or college - my youngest will be 33 in two weeks....
Sheldon
PS - while I made choices that allowed me to stay active in this hobby in some way most of my life, I never let the hobby interfere with family or work. It was always other personal things I was willing to give up in favor of this hobby.
A good friend says: "you can have ANYTHING in this life that you want, you just can't have EVERYTHING that you want".
PRR8259 I will turn 50 in a few weeks. I patently reject the thought that the hobby is "too expensive" for today's generation. I would say that there are a lot of colleges offering totally worthless degrees (as in would you like fries with that because you will be working fast food) for far too much money. Some people are foolish enough to get those degrees. We have been sold a bill of goods that everyone needs a college education. Sorry, not true. My wife earned a B.S. in Psychology. She can make more money working fast food or at a pet store or as a teacher's aide than working in her field. Just as in Indiana Jones, people "choose poorly". If I had it to do over again, I'd have skipped college and worked for the railroad. My mother wouldn't let me do that when I was changing majors at the time. Guess what? Working for the railroad I would actually be making more money than after 26 years in professional engineering. Funny how things turn out. John
Well John, you might be on to something there.
At age 17 I thought I wanted to go to college and become an Architect. But by age 19 I was working full time as a draftsman in an engineering office (and part time at the hobby shop) and saw what engineers and archictects do all day - no thank you.
Today, with just a good high school drafting program (which included an intro course in architecture), and few college courses along the way, and a willingness to to try all sorts of jobs, I am now a residential designer, specializing in residential historic restoration/preservation, run my own specialty design/construction company, I am an accomplished restoration carpenter, journeyman electrician, experianced electrical designer, and can handle most all of the building trades from design to hands on construction. And the wives of my clients tell me I'm a pretty good historic period interior designer as well.
College? who needs college. Libraries are full of books........and I can read.
One of my clients, a highly educated man, said I am an autodidact - I had to go home and look it up?
My wife says I'm a perfectionist, maybe, I think my customers like that.......
I just like to build things, design things, I like working with my brain and my hands. And I like making old houses look like new again - new like how they looked when they were new......
This hobby suits me......
While a lot of us "seasoned" model railroaders did have time for the hobby when we were young adults, today's young adults generally do not have the same life experiences we did. I feel kind of sorry for most young adults as they have absolutely no idea where to start building a layout of their own (or even how to change a light bulb). Most have little to no hands-on experience with basic tools. They're scared to death of power tools and they don't know what to do with wood, metal, plastic or drywall because their schools no longer offer shop classes.
My son had an engineering project in high school. The task was to design and build a gravity powered vehicle. He did come up with his own design but had no idea how to build it. He asked for my help so I suggested different materials and showed him how to cut and shape the first of each type of piece with the intent of letting him fabricate the rest. Every time I showed him a new technique, he stared at me in amazement because he didn't know where I learned to do these things. When we added on to our house and did quite a bit of the work ourselves, I assigned various jobs to both my son and daughter that required them to learn how to use different tools and how to work with a few different materials. My son recently moved into a house with three friends. Because of his addition building experiences, he has at least some knowledge of what to do when something needs fixing. Now the other three guys stare at him in amazement!
Hornblower
Anyone notice who is responding to this thread? All are seasoned train modelers. Not one young adult has chimed in to make his thoughts known. That says a lot about who is is the game and reading this forum.
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
I am a member of the younger contingent, I find if you've got the funds you can swing it, that's my biggest problem not enough money. And I'm not going to beg my parents for an allowance, mostly because they would not let me spend it on trains.
I haven't responded to this thread for one reason, because of my sputtering start into being active in the hobby I'm not taken too seriously around here.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
PED Anyone notice who is responding to this thread? All are seasoned train modelers. Not one young adult has chimed in to make his thoughts known. That says a lot about who is is the game and reading this forum.
This is the only "forum" that has enough going on in it to keep me checking in.
I have recently joined four facebook specialty groups that caught my interest and they are loaded with young people. They also have live ops sessions and live interactive tutorials on everything. There are plenty of younger people in these groups and at these op sessions as well. I am still learning to navigate and am not crazy about the FB layout but that may just be a "being old" thing.
I went to a new product demo at a local train shop attended by about thirty people. The subject of forums came up and only two of us said we participated online on any RR forum. So this is not a good place to take a poll
Depends. One can be a full participant in this hobby without a layout. Thus no need for a dedicated space, except for maybe a workbench and even that isn't strictly necessary so long as you have a well-organized tool collection.
Time is where you find it. I don't hardly watch TV, that alone gives me 20+ hours a week vs the average American. There are other tradeoffs one can make for time. And there is no required minimum number of hours you must reach to qualify as a model railroader. Even as a nearly retired adult, the time I have available varies greatly.
$$? Well, if you feel you must buy everything RTR for some reason, sure it can be. Start scratchbuilding and not so much, if one focuses hobby dollars on that. It's not free, but if you look at projects in terms of the number of hours of pleasurable work, you can drive the per hour cost pretty low.
Model railroading is the hobby that is pretty much what you choose to make it. One size expands or contracts to fit all.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL