justify the cost of "O" scale model trains

[ben10ben]

Tatans,
To answer your question, O gauge(notice my lack of the use of the term scale) comes in three basic flavors.
1. Traditional
2. Hi-rail
3. Two-rail scale

Traditional is characterized by 3 rail track, generally less than scale pieces, minimal details, and tight curves. Traditional can further be divided into two categories, Standard O and O27. O27 pieces are generally close to S scale in size(1/64), and run on curves 27" in diameter. Standard O pieces are larger, usually somewhere around 1/53 scale or so(although they sometimes might very close or right on full 1/48 scale), and usually require minimum curves of 31" in diameter. Keep in mind that both Standard O and O27 pieces are often "selectively compressed" which means that they may be full scale in width and height, but shortened lenghtwise. Standard O and O27 can generally be mixed together just fine on the same layout, and even in the same train.

Hi-rail is characterized by more emphasis on scale size, detail, and scenery, although it still uses three rail track. Most hi-rail pieces are full 1/48 scale, have excellent details, and run on 54" and 72" diameter curves(although many pieces are capable of negotiating curves as sharp as 31", given the fact that they look horrible and don't always run well). Some hi-railers run on traditional Lionel-style tubular rails, while most opt for the T shaped rail alternatives from Atlas and Gargraves. Many hi-railers use traditional Lionel-style tinplate knuckle couplers with deep tinplate flanges, although a small but increasing number are switching over to Kadee type couplers with scale flanges. Scale flanges can't be used on tubular track, but Kadee couplers will still mate freely with Lionel couplers. It's also possible to run traditional non-scale equipment on Hi-rail layouts.

Two rail full O scale is a small but increasing segment of the hobby, thanks, in part, to affordable offerings from Atlas O. Many people run DC or DCC engines, although a good many of the new arrivals are using AC with Lionel's Trainmaster Command Control system(TMCC). TMCC allows the easy inclusion of an excellent quality digital sound system, as well as remotely operatable couplers(now available in Kadee style) and smoke units.

[Anonymous]

keep in mind that even during the heyday of Lionel in late 40's and early 50's, a good set was atleast a weeks wages for the common american family, this is before we had duel income familys where both mom and dad work. With todays cost of living, Lionel still makes some very affordable trains, while yes there are always trains that are out of reach, just like some sets in the 50's. There are plenty of sets in the range of most parents, The Polar Express sold out, was number 1 item in sales on ebay, The LHS is completely sold out of starter sets, and he had plenty of them including the top NKP Berkshire super set. Lionel trains have always been an expensive toy and will always be one. Would you rather pay 30-60 dollers for a cheap HO set from wallmart type stores, or 179-350 for a Lionel set that with a little care will be here for you great grand kids??? You can make the O scale hobby as expensive or as cheap as you choose it to be. I can assembly a nice post war Lionel set, in good condition for under 125 dollers. I prefer O gauge trains, preferably Lionel, but I do own a couple of MTH items, but only because I wanted that particular style or road name, it that case it was a SD-9 diesel in the Nickel Plate Road colors.

[boomer5344]

Two words:
YOU CAN'T

Thats why I came back (Running!) to N scale.

[Eriediamond]

Someone above kind of hit the nail on the head so to speak, when they mentioned "collector" models. I have no doubt that most of the Lionel line is intended for collectors, not the averge family wanting a toy train for their kids. Lionel is comparible to say, Harley -Davidson motorcycles in that they are kind of American icons, once built for the average consumer, but now built mainly for the "rich and famous'". Heck, Lionel even stated themselves that they are geared more toward the collector than us peasents, though not in those exact words. I also feel like was stated above that model railroading itself is slowely climbing in cost and will some day be out of reach of most of us as more and more demands by the consumer for more and more do everything models. Just an opinion here. Ken. P.S. I've also been in the model R/C airplane hobby for the past 40 years also and let me say this. It cost about $300 15-20 years ago to get a good trainer type airplane in the air. Today the cost for the same type airplane with even higher tech radios and equipmen is still about $300 dollars. Compare this to model railroading. Like the young say-- go figure!!!

[IRONROOSTER]

First of all, you can always find spot deals that are cheap. In general the bigger the scale the more it costs. When you compare comparable RTR 2 rail scale between N, HO, S, O, and G the price goes up with scale proportional to the size. For boxcars: N is $15-20, HO is $25-30, S is $40-45, O is $50- 60 and G is $60 - 70. (These are list prices from MicroTrains, Kadee, SHelper, Atlas, and Aristocraft) There is a notable exception in that HO has several low cost lines - Athearn, MDC, and others. I don't what tooling and dies cost, but it stands to reason that the larger they are the more they cost. So I don't think the price differential is that out of line - this just isn't a cheap hobby. One reason there are so many of us older guys in the hobby us that we can afford it now - the kids are grown, the mortgage on the 25 year old house seems low.
Enjoy
Paul

[tatans]

Question: Is "O" scale the same as "O27" (Lionel) which has 3-rail, Have I seen "O" scale brass with 2-rail or was I dreaming, I think "O" IS very expensive, but would be a great scale simply because of it's size, I' m finding I now need thicker glasses,a magnifying glass and smaller steadier hands when I'm working on "HO" A larger scale would be a new alternative (along with much more room!!!) If I can remember an "O" scale boxcar kit was insanely expensive and I would imagine the engines must be out of reach, any comments or am I way off track???

[Anonymous]

An inexpensive alternative is On30, Bachmann makes all kinds of great models at prices near to or similar to HO scale models. I recently got one of their Climax steam engines for around $150.00. Their HO scale model is around the same price. Try buying an O scale Climax for anything under $1000.00! (Brass)

Bob Boudreau

[grantha]

I just wonder if "O" scale would seem so expensive if one did a comparison based on cost per square inch?

Compared to "N" Scale I bet "O" would be a terrific bargain.[swg]

[Anonymous]

i know model railroading is an "exspensive hobby" but sheeesh,i am looking at from a child/parent view, like i stated earlier how does a company justify the cost ,in reality its just a "toy" to many...i had a HO set when a was 11 and making money doing a paper route but when i went to purchase extra's(buildings,freight cars,engines,etc.) my 10-15 dollars didnt go far..eventually i lost interest..thanx for replies.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jennifer RR

Here is another reason for high costs.....Lawyers being paid to sue other manufacturers......and lawyers being paid to defend against other lawyers being paid to sue....MTH, you know who you are, and in the end its we hobbiests who suffer the costs. I hope Lionel sues you guys for all the hundreds of Lionel products you reproduced without license or royalty and successfully offset the unfair and unjust gudgement you guys convinced an ignorant court to award you. Many of our friends are boycotting MTH and we even know of one dealer who has dumped the line completely.....Good riddance!

It is ashamed that greed,fueled by lawyers who dream of $ have invaded the world of model railroading.We all will pay a very high price no matter the scale.When a manf.has to consider the amount of profit that has to be put in it's defence fund into the cost at witch it can offer its products,they may very well justify themselves right out of buisness.I would love to own the same engines F3 ABA Lionel that my father run, and if i justified the cost and bought them,my wife would be justified when she stopped me at the door with that old iorn skillet.

[Anonymous]

Here is another reason for high costs.....Lawyers being paid to sue other manufacturers......and lawyers being paid to defend against other lawyers being paid to sue....MTH, you know who you are, and in the end its we hobbiests who suffer the costs. I hope Lionel sues you guys for all the hundreds of Lionel products you reproduced without license or royalty and successfully offset the unfair and unjust gudgement you guys convinced an ignorant court to award you. Many of our friends are boycotting MTH and we even know of one dealer who has dumped the line completely.....Good riddance!

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougray
why is the cost of "O" scale/guage model trains so expensive,compared to other scales? i have seen "G" scale stuff cheaper,way cheaper.

Well, that is really a hard blanket statment to make. The really good "G" scale stuff is more like $3-4-5000+ dollars for a loco. And that doesn't get into the brass stuff, I saw a K-27 1:20.5 scale that I really wanted but it was $10,000. I've had to be content with the mid quality $200-$600 range loco's.

QUOTE:
how can these companies who manufacture "O" scale/guage justify the cost,
i mean just vision a 10 year old boy asking his parents for 3-4-500+dollars for one "toy" lionel engine....
any info...thanks.

They are mainly after the collectors market. As another poster pointed out most 3 rail people are from an older generation who "collect" toy trains. Of course they may be shooting themselves in the foot because when that group is gone they will have no market. In fact, the heirs of the estates will be flooding the market with all those valuable "collector" trains. This is already happening in the doll market. My mother collected dolls for years. Some of her pieces were once worth thousands of dollars. But as she is now trying to sell her collection she has discovered that everyone else is too. Prices are falling like a brick.

But another point. I can't find it right now but somewhere I have a lionel flyer from 1957 or so. As I recall the locomotive I really wanted was close to $60. If cost of living had been a constant 5% for those 45 years that would be $539 today. Lionel used to be worth it. I mean if I would have gotten that locomotive I guarantee I would still have it and it would still be running around the Christmas tree. Trains like that are an investment, not necessarily in dollars, that are intended to be passed on to the next generation.

Our G-scale started that way. I purchased my son a locomotive an loop of track on his third birthday. Imagine paying $7 per/piece of track and $209 for a loco in 1984! We have added one turnout, car, or ? each Christmas. Now after 20 years he has quite an impressive set that he can pass on to his children. It is almost just as good now as when we first bought it. Should last another 100 years easy.

[Bikerdad]

At comparable levels of quality, the costs of detailing the O scale equipment is higher than for smaller scales, since you can do more detail.

[Anonymous]

Check these websites for your answer:

www.lionel.com
www.mth-railking.com
www.williamstrains.com

[orsonroy]

1) they're larger.
2) O scale and 3-rail are smaller markets than HO or even N. Less demand means smaller production runs, meaning higher unit prices, so the manufacturer can make the same profit margin.
3) Some brands are more desirable than others, meaning collectors are more willing to pay higher prices. Market-driven pricing.

Economics 101.

[Anonymous]

We all know they are going to tell ya that the cost of materials, labor etc keep climbing. Although this is true I often wonder myself why. If the cost is lower more people could afford to purchase trains for kids, thus making more money in the long run. At least that is how I look at it. Its not just O scale though. All model railroad items are climbing out of reach of the average person who is the buyer of most equipment. It will be another thing in America soon that only the wealthy can have. Seems to be the trend with most everything these days.

[Anonymous]

why is the cost of "O" scale/guage model trains so expensive,compared to other scales? i have seen "G" scale stuff cheaper,way cheaper. how can these companies who manufacture "O" scale/guage justify the cost,
i mean just vision a 10 year old boy asking his parents for 3-4-500+dollars for one "toy" lionel engine....
any info...thanks.