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What a scrap yard could have been ?

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Posted by S and C Branch on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 1:10 PM
Oh, feel free to pick my brain if you like. The more I think about this and remember the better my layout will be! Mark
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Posted by S and C Branch on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 1:08 PM

dragonriversteel

 Thank you Mark for sharing your insight. Fascinating stuff. Would you mind me picking your brain on steel mill stuff from time to time ?

You wouldn't happen to know the model numbers of the American hydraulic boom material handlers would you ? I've been searching for the identity of the American crane in my Flickr photostream. Can't find out what model number it is.

Sorry, I don't remember the model numbers of the American hydraulics.  Now that I think about it, the road numbers were 44 and 45, and the three Ohio diesel-electrics were 10, 81, and 82. The latter two were identical and #10 crane was smaller.  

I have a Walthers that I'm going to use as-is on my layout, except for weathering and decaling.  I'll be modelling a Bethehem Steel plant and not J&L.  

What I've never figured out is why these mills have a separate small RR company that services the mill and then also has their own road equipment (our switcher was a "J&L" switcher, not "A&S." All the hourly employees I supervised were members of the Steelworkers union, while the A&S crews were in the multiple RR workers unions.  Maybe government regulations? 

 

Some folks like to model these small RRs in their layouts but I don't think I'm going to bother.  I'm the czar of my RR world and I'll have the mill deal directly with the mainline RRs.  

Mark

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  • From: Shenandoah Valley The Home Of Patsy Cline
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Posted by superbe on Sunday, February 18, 2018 3:33 PM

dragonriversteel

Thank you Bob for sharing.

What types of "stuff laying around", did you use ? 

SmileBig SmileWink   Oops - Sign

The stuff laying around were buildings from eBay.

I have built a Blair Line lazer cut model, PIZZALAND, which turned out very well.

Bob

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Posted by dragonriversteel on Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:07 PM

Thank you Bob for sharing.

What types of "stuff laying around", did you use ?  Fine job on both models.

I reuse/recycle all sorts of stuff to use in modeling. For instance. I once commendered an old 70's styrene laundry hamper. Turned the plastic into all sorts of things. Namely, most everything I've built in the last two years. 

Ran out of that hamper styrene recently on the slag pot crane build. Darn !

 

People would be surprised at what lies around their home that can be used for modeling purposes.

 

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

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  • From: Shenandoah Valley The Home Of Patsy Cline
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Posted by superbe on Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:25 PM

dragonriversteel

Do you model anything from your hometown ?

 

I incorporated two industries operating in my home town as they have a unique relationship. One is Miller Milling Co. and the other is New World Pasta. They are located side by side. Miller grinds the flour and pipes it across to New World.

Miller also ships refined flour in dedicated cars to customers. The operation is large enough for them to have multi track siding and their own swicher.

I didn't replicte the buildings but used what I had available.

Also in 1956 I built a service station and leased it to the Gulf Oil Corporation. I had wanted to build a 3 bay station but Gulf would only lease a two bay one. With the left over ground I built a diner in 1958 (Amherst Diner) which is still operating today under the same name.

Miller & New World

Station / Diner:

Meaningful to me but not to anyone else as they are not a true replica, just the concept.

Bob

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Posted by dragonriversteel on Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:11 AM

Southgate

I have 2 WIP structures that are models of real structures that did exist here in Bend Or. Both will be very recognizable land marks, and both will be such that I'm the only one who will know the minor adjustments I had to make to fit them to my layout's footprint.

One is a wooden concrete batch plant that was used from the mid 40s to the late 90s, The other a famous verylarge lumber shed

A third is a very accurate model of another structure I built and still have and currently display... in 1/24 scale; A detailed truck shop 

 

 

  Thank you for sharing South Gate. How long did each project take to complete ?

 

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:11 AM

dragonriversteel
Mike, that's left over glow stick lanyards from Halloween. Bought them at the dollar store

Thanks, I'll have to check that out.  I have a couple of track hoes I wanted to detail.

Mike.

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Posted by dragonriversteel on Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:08 AM

Thank you Wayne.

 

 

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

  • Member since
    May 2005
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Posted by dragonriversteel on Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:06 AM

mbinsewi

For those of us not familiar with steel making terminology, by BOS you mean Basic Oxygen Steelmaking?

Your models look great!  Hopefully everyone has seen the red one you built.  What did you use for the hydraulic hoses?

Mike.

 

 

  Mike, that's left over glow stick lanyards from Halloween. Bought them at the dollar store. They make great flexible hydraulic hoses as you can tell. The silver lines are paper clips. Many hours figeting with those lines. 

Far better than using electronic wire for hoses.

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

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  • From: Canada, eh?
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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, February 17, 2018 2:20 AM

maxman
...Not sure, but I believe that basic oxygen steel making is the entire process, while BOF is the furnace itself.  But I could be mistaken.

Where I worked, it referred to the process, the vessels in which it occurred, the heat (batch of steel), and the building in which those furnaces were operating.

While I preferred to call it the Bee-Oh-Eff, most referred to it as the Bawf or, even worse, the Boff (which to me is a totally different operation altogether).

It's a very efficient way of making steel, especially small batches of specialty grades.  Each of our three vessels originally made about 100 ton heats in approximately 45 minutes, but over the years, upgrades allowed over 120 tons in about 40 minutes.  

There's some information on the process here:  The Basic Oxygen Steelmaking (BOS) Process.

Depending on the end-use, various additives would be used to alter the chemical composition of the steel during this operation.

Products at the plant where I worked ranged from fasteners (nails, screws, nuts & bolts), to rod and wire, re-bar, automotive uses (body steel along with wheel rim and wheel spider) siding and other building/construction products, tin plate, galvanised steel, other coated steel products, tire mesh, pipeline steel (they also had their own pipe mill, for large diameter spiral-welded pipe), tie plate (but not rail), steel for rail cars, shipbuilding and armour plate, too.  
One day I was expecting a heat from the BOF, but didn't recognise the grade code (Stelco had over 300 of them listed, I believe).  I looked it up in the set of grade books that we used, and discovered that it was 120 tons of steel for toe caps in safety boots.  Wheel rim and wheel spider (centre of the wheel) were different grades, and GM, Ford, and Chrysler all had several of each, and all were different.

The plant also had a small fleet of tank cars, used for transporting the various chemicals produced by the coke ovens' by-product plant.

Wayne

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Posted by Southgate on Saturday, February 17, 2018 12:27 AM

I have 2 WIP structures that are models of real structures that did exist here in Bend Or. Both will be very recognizable land marks, and both will be such that I'm the only one who will know the minor adjustments I had to make to fit them to my layout's footprint.

One is a wooden concrete batch plant that was used from the mid 40s to the late 90s, The other a famous verylarge lumber shed

A third is a very accurate model of another structure I built and still have and currently display... in 1/24 scale; A detailed truck shop 

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, February 17, 2018 12:12 AM

mbinsewi
I had to look it up, as I had no idea to what BOF is. In a definition I found, it can also be called BOS.

Not sure, but I believe that basic oxygen steel making is the entire process, while BOF is the furnace itself.  But I could be mistaken.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, February 17, 2018 12:03 AM

dragonriversteel
....Thank you Wayne . It's sad the steady decline of North American heavy industry. How many years did you have in Wayne ? Do you miss it ? Where those old steam loco tenders used as mill cars ?....

Close to 40 years there, and while I enjoyed much of my time there, the last couple years were tough, particularly watching the ingot-associated mills being torn down - I worked most of my time in the slabbing mill, where we turned ingots into slabs.

The social atmosphere was deteriorating, with upper management very adversarial towards frontline managers, and the company struggling.  It went into bankruptcy protection, and was eventually bought-out by U.S. Steel.  They gutted the customer accounts, taking them home when they left town after Bedrock Industries bought it.  There's been some talk of beginning steel production again (the plant currently supplies coke to another branch of the company, and does some finishing work).

Many of the hi-riser cars shown in the link were former Nickel Plate Berkshire tenders, and I believe there's also a photo there showing a C&O articulated being cut-up for scrap.  

There's another large steel company in the city, along with several large scrap yards and many steel-related industries, mostly finishing operations. Our particular plant, only one of several belonging to the company within the city and in other cities, itself employed over 15,000 unionised workers, in addition to management and office staff.  Currently, I believe that number to be only a few hundred.

Here's a look inside the now-gone slabbing mill...

..."E" blast furnace... 

...and hot slabs heading to the next step in the process...

I can't get into your photobucket, but to post a photo here, I simply click on the line titled "img", which automatically copies the data, then here, place the cursor where you want the picture to appear, right click, then click on "paste".  (That's when using Mozilla).  
If I'm using Safari, I have to left-click on the img line of data - not just the "img" - then right click once the data changes colour, then click "copy".  The procedure for placing it here is the same.

Wayne

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, February 16, 2018 11:16 PM

Your right Maxman, he said BOF.  I had to look it up, as I had no idea to what BOF is.

In a definition I found, it can also be called BOS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_oxygen_steelmaking

I wanted to know what the OP and another poster, were talking about, with BOF.  Thats all.

Mike.

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Posted by maxman on Friday, February 16, 2018 10:12 PM

mbinsewi
For those of us not familiar with steel making terminology, by BOS you mean Basic Oxygen Steelmaking?

Did he say BOS or BOF?  BOF is basic oxygen furnace.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, February 16, 2018 8:40 PM

For those of us not familiar with steel making terminology, by BOS you mean Basic Oxygen Steelmaking?

Your models look great!  Hopefully everyone has seen the red one you built.  What did you use for the hydraulic hoses?

Mike.

  • Member since
    May 2005
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Posted by dragonriversteel on Friday, February 16, 2018 7:38 PM

doctorwayne

Nice job on the Kress Carrier!  YesYes

At the plant where I worked, they were used mostly for carrying slabs and slagpots.  I'm not sure, but they might have used them for coils, too. 
The BOFs there used mostly hot metal, tranferred from the blast furnace in torpedo cars.  The steel went directly to a continuous caster, via overhead crane.
They were still using some specialised rail cars for slabs when I retired, and I think that most of their 29 diesel locomotives are gone, too.

There's some more information on the plant HERE.

Wayne

 

 

 Thank you Wayne . It's sad the steady decline of North American heavy industry. How many years did you have in Wayne ? Do you miss it ?

Where those old steam loco tenders used as mill cars ?

Uploaded more scratch built HO machines recently if you care to view. Still haven't figured out how to post/link my flickr photos. Yelling at my table doesn't work...

 

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

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Posted by dragonriversteel on Friday, February 16, 2018 7:26 PM

S and C Branch

Interesting post! In the early 80's, I worked in the rail yard of a big steel mill outside of Pittsburgh (J&L Aliquippa Works) stretched for 5-7 miles along the Ohio River) where scrap was handled (for the BOF, as you describe; each scrap "drag" of 7 (?) cars had to have a particular mix of scrap types) as well as prime steel was handled: ingots were stored for future rolling or milling, and steel "rounds" were transferred from in-house rail cars (no air brakes) to different gons for shipment to other mills in the corporation (Indiana or Ohio mostly).

We had one locomotive and I think 6 locomotive rail cranes (two American hydralics and four diesel-electrics, I think), a five track yard (dual ladders) and. There was also a huge overhead gantry crane (the "skullbreaker") that broke up the worn-out ingot molds (more scrap), as well as "beds" where recently made steel was scrapped (I think the metalurgy didn't work out so the whole "heat"--200 tons--would be scrapped). That was done by guys in heavy suits with cutting lances. So these billets and blooms had to be off-loaded by a crane crew and then the cut-up pieces reloaded.

They made this kid (me) a foreman and I had 3-4 two-man crews (engineer/operator and conductor) to supervise each shift. Daylight had a locomotive crew and 3 crane crews, other shifts had all crane crews unless they gave me four crews on midnight and I had a crew do some switching.

Yikes, some days I'd be laughing like a hyena at what was going on and other days end up in shouting matches. Good education, but I'm glad I only spent a year doing it.

There was a local railroad company (the "Aliquippa and Southern" or A&S) that handled traffic between the mainline (Pittsburgh and Lake Erie RR) and the mill. I had to deal with the clerk for that RR in my end of the mill, and the numerous unionized guys working for that RR. I learned to ask nicely for favors.

I'm not going to model that mill but one in my hometown, but I'm going to include some of these rail yard activities that I know about. Wow, you got my mind going thinking about that stuff. Slag handling, different road gons could go only certain places, I learned the hard way about "cross-coupling" and tore up a couple hundred feet of track; I once slipped and fell off a moving locomotive. I prefer the 1:87 ones now!

 

Mark

 

 

 Thank you Mark for sharing your insight. Fascinating stuff. Would you mind me picking your brain on steel mill stuff from time to time ?

You wouldn't happen to know the model numbers of the American hydraulic boom material handlers would you ? I've been searching for the identity of the American crane in my Flickr photostream. Can't find out what model number it is.

If I can find out more information on that specific model. I can bash a Walthers crane into it.

Anyone know what darn model number it is ? Shoot, I've even contacted American crane AOL themselves. Haven't heard a peep back.

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • 1,037 posts
Posted by dragonriversteel on Friday, February 16, 2018 7:19 PM

hornblower

Although not a model of a scrap yard supplying a steel plant, I always thought that what's left of the old Kaiser Steel plant (now California Steel Industries) in Fontana, California would make a great layout!  So much to model on just a single property!

 

 

 Yes very interesting to model that outfit. Those U30C's painted in Kaiser steel colors. Which reminds me. Model Railroader's Magazine did a whole series on building a small portion of Kaiser Steel. Really great article and nicely modelled.

I hope it inspires you to take that modeling on. 

 

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • 1,037 posts
Posted by dragonriversteel on Friday, February 16, 2018 7:14 PM

Thank you Henry. 

 

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

  • Member since
    September 2003
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Posted by Overmod on Friday, February 16, 2018 7:09 PM

SouthPenn
Is that the Kovalchicks that own the East Broad Top railroad?

The very same, I believe.

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Posted by SouthPenn on Friday, February 16, 2018 7:06 PM

Spacemouse said "The name of the company is Kovalchick Corporation"

Is that the Kovalchicks that own the East Broad Top railroad?

South Penn
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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, February 16, 2018 5:44 PM

Nice job on the Kress Carrier!  YesYes

At the plant where I worked, they were used mostly for carrying slabs and slagpots.  I'm not sure, but they might have used them for coils, too. 
The BOFs there used mostly hot metal, tranferred from the blast furnace in torpedo cars.  The steel went directly to a continuous caster, via overhead crane.
They were still using some specialised rail cars for slabs when I retired, and I think that most of their 29 diesel locomotives are gone, too.

There's some more information on the plant HERE.

Wayne

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • 19 posts
Posted by S and C Branch on Friday, February 16, 2018 4:06 PM

Interesting post! In the early 80's, I worked in the rail yard of a big steel mill outside of Pittsburgh (J&L Aliquippa Works) stretched for 5-7 miles along the Ohio River) where scrap was handled (for the BOF, as you describe; each scrap "drag" of 7 (?) cars had to have a particular mix of scrap types) as well as prime steel was handled: ingots were stored for future rolling or milling, and steel "rounds" were transferred from in-house rail cars (no air brakes) to different gons for shipment to other mills in the corporation (Indiana or Ohio mostly).

We had one locomotive and I think 6 locomotive rail cranes (two American hydralics and four diesel-electrics, I think), a five track yard (dual ladders) and. There was also a huge overhead gantry crane (the "skullbreaker") that broke up the worn-out ingot molds (more scrap), as well as "beds" where recently made steel was scrapped (I think the metalurgy didn't work out so the whole "heat"--200 tons--would be scrapped). That was done by guys in heavy suits with cutting lances. So these billets and blooms had to be off-loaded by a crane crew and then the cut-up pieces reloaded.

They made this kid (me) a foreman and I had 3-4 two-man crews (engineer/operator and conductor) to supervise each shift. Daylight had a locomotive crew and 3 crane crews, other shifts had all crane crews unless they gave me four crews on midnight and I had a crew do some switching.

Yikes, some days I'd be laughing like a hyena at what was going on and other days end up in shouting matches. Good education, but I'm glad I only spent a year doing it.

There was a local railroad company (the "Aliquippa and Southern" or A&S) that handled traffic between the mainline (Pittsburgh and Lake Erie RR) and the mill. I had to deal with the clerk for that RR in my end of the mill, and the numerous unionized guys working for that RR. I learned to ask nicely for favors.

I'm not going to model that mill but one in my hometown, but I'm going to include some of these rail yard activities that I know about. Wow, you got my mind going thinking about that stuff. Slag handling, different road gons could go only certain places, I learned the hard way about "cross-coupling" and tore up a couple hundred feet of track; I once slipped and fell off a moving locomotive. I prefer the 1:87 ones now!

 

Mark

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  • From: Fullerton, California
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Posted by hornblower on Friday, February 16, 2018 1:42 PM

Although not a model of a scrap yard supplying a steel plant, I always thought that what's left of the old Kaiser Steel plant (now California Steel Industries) in Fontana, California would make a great layout!  So much to model on just a single property!

Hornblower

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, February 16, 2018 10:57 AM

I guess I'll have to read up on how to use Flickr.  I've have an account that I never use.

The first link in my post above, is another model he built.

The second link is what Henry posted.

Mike.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, February 16, 2018 10:44 AM

dragonriversteel
If you really want to see them. Hop on Flickr, type Kress carrier on search bar. Lookie for the yellow monstrosity. Click on that photo. Then Plumpy2009 for the other photo of the Kress carrier modelled after Phoenix Slag scrap box carrier. If you wouldn't mind. Please post both photos for others to view. Have a tough time posting photos myself.

It's like a treasure hunt

No idea which yellow vehicle is the yellow monstrosity and the likely suspects don't seem to be shareable.  Here is the one you built

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, February 16, 2018 10:33 AM

OK, I'll try it.

https://flic.kr/p/24pdQk8

I guess I don't know how to use flicker either.  I have an account, just don't know how to share pics.

The link works.  I'll ad a couple more links.

https://flic.kr/p/GgkwYy

I'll have to figure out how flikr works.

Mike.

EDIT:  Now the top link doesn't work.  Now I got.

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Posted by dragonriversteel on Friday, February 16, 2018 10:18 AM

SouthPenn

I went to this grade school in my home town.

Here is my rendition on my layout. Not perfect, but it works for me.

 

 

 That's a fine job and exactly what I was talking about.  Little bits and pieces of memories made into whimsical structures fondly remembered.

Great job South Penn.

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

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