Hello all,
When I returned to this great hobby a few years ago I blatantly lied to "She who must be obeyed" and told her that I just wanted to "Check out" a train show in Denver.
With cash in my pocket I knew I was going to buy a "starter set".
After a few laps around the show I returned to one vendor and offered him $35 for a DC transformer, a Loctite themed set with one loco, several cars and a circle of track.
Much to my wife's dismay he took the offer.
I went to another vendor and offered him $20 for a Tyco crane set that he had priced at $30. Again, he took the offer!
Our house has hardwood floors so I set up the "starter set" on the floor.
She didn't like that so I offered to put a piece of 4'x8' plywood on the spare bed in the computer room.
I haven't progressed past the 4'x8' pike but I have upgraded to DCC and built a trackplan that I am extremely pleased with.
The initial cost of the my original pike was well under your $300 budget. However over the past few years I have spent probably ten times that amount.
I still don't run sound locos. I don't know if I will ever upgrade to sound but upgrading to DCC was inevitable.
Because of the 18- and 15-inch curves on my pike I have limited my motive power to 4-axle diesels and 0-6-0 steamers. The larger 6-axle SDs and steamers with leading and trailing trucks will work but look out of place.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Two things no one has talked about is era and location. You've already jumped around a lot on those. In the long run, you'll be happier with your layout if you pick one era and location and concentrate on that. Sure, a New York Central Hudson steamer looks great, but not if you're building a California logging layout.
Small layouts use tight curves. 18-inch radius is OK, but modern-era engines and long auto-racks might have trouble negotiating it, while an Alco RS3 pulling some 40-foot boxcars will look and perform much better.
I'm firmly sold on DCC. I like sound engines as well. When I compare the prices of sound engines with buying a DC engine and then adding a decoder and speaker, most of the time it comes out cheaper to go with the sound engine in the first place, and you don't have the tricky project of installing the decoder and speaker. Once you get beyond a basic track loop, it's actually easier to wire DCC than DC, because you don't have to worry about blocks.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
lazyfortressCan I use sound with DC, or do I have to get DCC?
That's a good question. There are lots of DC experts on here, maybe you'd get their attention if you went to the Electronics and DCC forum in here, and use that question has the title to a new thread.
Mike.
My You Tube
Rather than Bachmann EZ Track, you might want to consider Atlas True Tack which also comes with the plastic roadbed. If you get into the hobby in a big way eventually, you can use the Atlas track without the road bed. Having typed that, I would defer to someone else as far as a comparison cost analysis is concerned.
I did a quick simple double oval in True Track on an 8 X 4 ft base, the infamous plywood sheet and I think you can get get the track for a totalof about 50$.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Well it'd be cool to have DCC and sound, but it's a whole lot more expensive. I'll just stick with DC. I'm 75% sure I'm gonna buy this HO scale Athearn KCS SD70Ace and maybe 5 cars (a flat car, a couple tankers, and a couple hoppers). It's $140 for the SD70Ace.
I really want to get a NS high hood SD40-2, but none are available. The closest thing I could find was a NS high hood SD45-2 by Athearn I believe.
Can I use sound with DC, or do I have to get DCC?
Of the makes of locomotive you asked about, I would rate Atlas first with Athearn second. I have had mixed results with Bachmann. I've got some good runners from them and others I would classify as junk, and not even good junk. The biggest decision you have to make is whether to go DC or DCC, the latter being more expensive. If you are only going to run one or two trains, DCC is probably overkill.
When you say you want a track plan to go around your room, do you mean around the walls or an island type layout. Some disparage the basic 4x8 oval but I think it's not a bad way to start. I think eventually you are going to want to add scenery which can either be rural, small town or big city. With a small layout I would stick with one or two small towns. If you have a local hobby shop that deals in used merchandise, you can sometimes pick up some prebuilt structures on the cheap to help fill in the non-railroad spaces. ebay can also be a good source for this as well as building a rolling stock roster.
OK, I get the fact that your bouncing around, making sure you get the biggest bang for your $300.
I would go with the Athearn. I'm pretty sure that $90 loco is DCC Ready, if you ever wanted to go from DC to DCC. I briefly went back through the post, I didn't see if you've decided on DC or DCC ?
It's cheaper to start out in DC, and make the switch when your ready.
But, something to consider. That $90 loco will need a $20 decoder, and if you want sound, figure another $80. That is decoder and all. And that is mid range prices, as some brands of sound decoders, such as ESU will be a lot more. That $20 decoder can be taken out and put in another loco, that is DCC ready.
Too much info to think about, heh?
Alright, so I've decided to go on another locomotive route. I found a Walthers Mainline HO scale EMD SD70ACe in the KCS Red scheme, and it's $135. It has DCC and sound. I also found an Athearn KCS grey AC4400CW for $90, but it doesn't have DCC or sound. Do I need DCC and sound as a beginner?
Also, does anyone know where I can find a Norfolk Southern HO scale SD40-2 High Nose? They seem to all be sold out.
Thanks again!
Edit: My layout is a going to be a bit small. It's supposed to go around one small area in my basement, maybe 15 feet long at the most. I was thinking about making a bridge that goes up to my lizard's terrarium and loops around it.
Find a train show. They have lots of vendors selling used rolling stock and just about everything else you might need. At really good prices. Get yourself some Model Railroader and Rail Model Craftsman magazines. Every maker who advertises in those magazines makes pretty decent stuff. You ought to be able to find a good running locomotive for under $50 at a show. Ask the seller to run the locomotive before closing the deal. There are lots of cars for under $10 apiece.
How much space do you have for your layout? John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" is the bible for layout building.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
If you are just getting started in the hobby, then bachmann would be a decent choice for those on a budget.
All the manufactures you listed usually have good support and warranties.
Many will regard Bachmann on the bottom of this scale. Many will cite gear failure and less detail. Buy Bachmann comes heavily discounted if you look around. You can find sound locos for < $100. And Bachmann has a really good warranty program. $40 and they will likely ship you a new loco instead of fixing it. Just save your receipt.
Atlas and Athearn have excellent units as well that are highly servicable with parts you can purchase online. (Bachmann has parts too)
That said for small layouts small engines are best. Stick to 4 axel diesels or switchers like sw1000 which are cheap durable and tough little pullers. They also work on small radiuses.
If you decide to get sound or not, they will both work with a simple dc power supply which is about $30 for a mrc pack. But to control the individual sounds, lights brakes, direction etc... you'll want to go dcc.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Hello there LF,
Check your messages... I have sent you some links to articles which may be a help to you!
Cheers from Australia
Trevor
Hello, thank you all for the helpful suggestions! I really do like the Bachmann RS3, and was thinking about painting it like this:
I was also considering getting the Atlas RS36 in the Apache Railway scheme (the old light blue paint scheme), or a LifeLike GP9 chop nose in the old Copper Basin scheme (with the cactus):
How hard is it to paint an already-painted train? I was thinking about using a brush and some of my modeling paints to get the main color down. I was also gonna custom order the decals.
Visiting a club is a great idea, as has been mentioned. Also, if you're in an area that has train shows, you can get great bargains, especially on used stuff. Many times you can get "new-in-the-box" locomotives, from older releases, for a fraction of the cost of what they were when they were first released, at these shows. I would not be surprised too, if someone at a local club has some decent equipment that they don't need and would be willing to part from it for a modest price.
I belong to a round-robbin group here locally (we all have our own layouts, but we meet regularly); in addition to our monthly "mini meets" we have two seasonal meets: one in the spring and one in the fall. At these seasonal meets, a part of the activity is a silent auction, where members bring their unneeded/unwanted wares to sell. The bidding prices are from about 10 to 50% of their original/retail prices; great bargains!
I think you can get it done on your budget if you're careful.
Have fun, that's the main thing.
The Athearn SD40T-2 are pretty nice loco's for the price. They are DCC ready (have the plug but not the decoder) and you can get them for $99 ea at modeltrainstuff (MBK). These days $99 for a nicely detailed DCC ready diesel in HO is a pretty decent price. There are still a couple left at MBK so if you snooze ...
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
With careful planning and purchases, you can usually obtain MUCH better quality components (locomotives and rolling stock) individually than buying one of those all-in-one train sets. It's amazing what you can find and how much money you save locally and on places like eBay if you put a little time and effort into it. It's really not that difficult.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Something else I'd like to ad, we all have "budgets" for our model railroading, either documented, or just knowing about how much you can spend at a given time.
In the 80's, kids and household took presidence, but I still knew I had a little bit, even just the change can in my truck, that I could stop and spend. A new, still in the original box Athearn or Atlas, off the LHS shelves, would have been beyond my reach.
There are a few on here, building club sized and room/building filling layouts, that obviously have an unlimited amount to spend, and can buy things in mass quantites, as they need.
Anything I used/have came in small quantities, as I needed it, and could afford it. Eventually the collection of materials and rolling stock builds over time.
The $300. the OP has to start with, is way more than I had to start, but yet a very modest amount, by todays standards.
At least he doesn't have to start with older "train set" quality, or less, as many of us did.
lazy!
First layout, and a budget to follow.... Yes, it can be done!
As Tom (Tstage) mentioned above, Bachmann is much better now then they were years back.
I have a couple of Bachmann units now, and, if funds work right, will be adding another in a couple of months, but that is only if it works out. (The Kirkland Ohio Railfest will be upcoming near my area, and there is always a certain dealer that goes there that I wil visit, and he usually has some great deals on Bachmann locomotives. So, if I can manage to make it, and find the right one, with the right price....)
You will save money by going DC (analog) operation, at least to start out with. A MRC DC power pack is much more affordable than even a starter DCC set up.
(DCC with sound, MSRP will be your whole budget on just the loco.) DCC can be added at a later date, if wanted. (That is the route I took, once I could afford it.)
For rolling stock, Accurail kits will be cheaper than anyone's RTR (Ready To Run) stuff, to save some money. Also, don't overlook used freight cars. They will most often be cheaper than new RTR ones.
A good place to find rail cars, and locomotives, as I alluded to above, is a model train show, if there is one in your area. Most people, especially on used equipment, will be willing to "wheel and deal" on their stuff. (If I pay cash for this loco, what's the best price for that railcar with it? Type stuff.) If you do not like the price, do not be afraid to walk. (You need to know the going rate on what the item is for this to work.) Other good sources are already mentioned, like Modeltrainstuff, eBay, etc...
If you find one at the right price, an older Athearn Blue-Box loco will provide years of reliable service for a decent price. (I got an SD40-2 in CR paint, at a show, for under $55.00 very recently, and these units, so long as they have the newer gold-flywheel Equiped motors, are nearly bulletproof. eBay almost always has Athearn BB units at a decent price. Yes, details are less than the newer RTR units from Intermountain, Atlas, and even the new Athearn RTR units, but they run smoothly, and are very durable.
Track - Turnouts (switches) will be the most expensive part of trackwork. Kato, Bachmann, and Atlas all make track similar to the Bachmann EZ-Track that Tom mentioned. (Although, Bachmann is, I believe, the cheaper option there.) Atlas version the roadbed is removable, and comes in Code 83 rail, which is slightly smaller, therefore more prototypical in appearance than the EZ-track at Code 100 rail. (Code 100 would be more for the heaviest PRR mainline ever built, Code 83 much closer in scale size to modern mainline rails.) EZ-track style track is great for the first layout. (Commonly referred to as "click track", due to the fact that the roadbed pieces "click" together, to lock together and align the rails properly.) Another benefit of click track is that the radii is constant, no cheating in the radii.
A note on track radius needs - The general sharpest in HO scale is 18", or a 36" diameter circle. This will work with 4-axle units better than 6-axle, like the SD40 series units you mentioned. It can work with some, but 22" radii, or 44" diameter, will look, and operate, better with the SD40's you like. (Also, most longer railcars, like full-length passenger cars, autoracks, 80'+ flats, etc... will not work well, if at all, on 18" radii curves. Even 22" is tight for passenger equipment, and the 80'+ length freight cars.) And, 22" radii will just fit onto a standard 4x8 sheet of plywood.
While $300 is not a lot when it comes to model trains, that is plenty to get you started in the hobby, so long as you budget for all needed items, and are frugal with purchases.
Don't forget to account for the layout physical plant needs, like the aforementioned plywood base. (Cabinet grade plywood is more expensive, but is much easier to work with, as it is much less warped, and far fewer knots than the cheap plywood has.) Some use foam board for the layout base, this might be a bit cheaper for you, depending on what area you are in. (Blue or pink foam insulation board material, not beadboard style foam.) If you use foam, seal it on all sides with latex acrylic paint, in a "earthy color", like grass green. (It does shrink if you don't seal it on all sides, and don't ask me how I know that!)
And, just because you start with only a small amount, if you stick with it you will amass more as time goes on. More railcars, locomotives, and accessories, like buildings, etc... can be added as time (and money) allows.
I started with a yard sale set, of track, power pack, one loco, and some cars. A plywood sheet, a building kit, and the set were in under your budget. Now? I have well over that, but it has been almost 20 years of getting there! (Yikes! Time flies when you are having fun!) But budget model railroading can indeed be done!
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
https://www.micromark.com/Bachmann-HO-Standard-Line-RS3-Diesel-Locomotive-DCC-Equipped-New-York-Central-No-8295
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
Lazy,
Bachmann has improved but I would go with either the Atlas Classic or Silver-series. Atlas makes top-notch diesels that are really smooth runners.
I don't know if you're interested in other road names apart from the KCS but there are Silver RS3s on eBay - new - for less than the Trainman brand you linked to. There are also Trainman RS36s on eBay for less than the Silver. For the KCS SD40-2, I would go with Intermountain. Here's one - new - with FREE shipping for $135.
That would leave you with $165 for a power pack, track, and a few cars:
Hope that helps...
Welcome lazyfortress!
Bachmann has changed a lot! Don't be afraid of their "newer" stuff, along with Athearn, and Atlas. All of them offer "DCC ready" locos. Atlas has locos with "dual mode" decoders, meaning that by rearranging a "dummy plug" you can switch back and forth from DC and DCC. It's all in the instructions that come with the loco. Decent, well running locos can be had for your budget price. Sound is a liitle more of an investment.
Your track plan is up to you, there are tons of publications out there, and, if you are a subscriber to MRR magazine, there is wealth of track plans right here, on the web site. Look at the black bar at the top of the page, hover your mouse over "How to", and in the middle column, click on Track Plan Database.
Have fun!
Get the RS3. Small layouts should have smaller engines. Get 50's era freight cars to go with it. Modern equipment is usually longer, and won't look as good on the tight curves. And what do you mean by "around the room"? Do you intend to set up your track on the floor?
Going to or visiting a Model Railroading club is a good idea. You probably can use some of the club equipment for a while and you can find out if you are interested enough to pursue the hobby, and if so where your interests lie. The other option is to throw money at the options until you either run out of cash or find your niche. I personally have tons of stuff I'll never use and and I've already sold the bulk of my engines on eBay.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Welcome to the forums.
As mentioned, $300 won't go to far, but it's a start.
I would suggest looking at a small train set, both Bachmann and Athearn make them. Most come with a loop of track, power pack, locomotive and cars. Get a sheet of plywood and set your track up on that. A coat of cheap green paint, sprinkled with several different colors and textures of ground foam (my first layout used dyed sawdust) will make a great improvement over the bare plywood. Add enough track to make a loop big enough to come within 4" of the edge of the table. If you have a little more money, some switches and more track will add to your operation. As a little more money and gifts trickle in, you can add buildiings, vehicles, people and more rolling stock.
If you don't have a hobby shop near you, Walthers, Modeltrainstuff, Trainworld and others all have web sites that you can browse and purchase. When ordering remember shippiing costs, sometimes it's cheaper to get it all from one place, even though one or two items may not be the lowest price.
By the way,Bachmann products have improved considerably, but their past still darkens some viewpoints. I have a couple that do just fine.
EDIT: Some sets come with sound locos, but they will use up more of your $300. It's up to you how important sound is, as compared to a little more in the way of scenery, rolling stock and accessories.
Good luck,
Richard
May I suggest you try getting a "critter" type diesel or a switcher off eBay, try Best Offer listings and offer about 50% less than Buy it Now and go up from there and also try getting some Accurail kits to build your rolling stock roster... Joining a club is a wonderful idea, most of all be willing to learn... good luck and welcome to the forums hope we all are helpful...
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Sadly, $300 doesn't get you as far in the hobby as it used to!
I would suggest seeking out a local model railroad club -- it's a great way to learn about the hobby, plus you don't have to wait to build a layout to start running trains (and your fellow club members may let you run theirs!).
Bachmann: Their equipment is a mix, some of the cheaper ones have detail that's a little crude and noisy mechanisms, others are detailed quite nicely. I've found that their pulling power isn't great, but I love the value (lower prices mean you can add more locomotives to pull your train!).
I have a couple of Athearns and I find the delicate detail can be a problem at our club, where stuff sometimes gets manhandled. I love the detail (and sound on those equipped) but I keep them in their original packaging when they aren't on the club layout. I only own a couple of Atlas locomotives and they perform nicely. I like a bargain (maybe you can tell!) and I have had good luck with new (but old stock) Proto 2000 locomotives that I convert to DCC.
For new stuff, I often buy from Train World. They have good sale prices and often have free shipping sales.
I hope some of this helps -- again I'd consider a club as a good place to learn. If you're in Los Angeles, look us up -- www.pmrrc.org .
Aaron
Found another locomotive:
http://www.lombardhobby.com/Athearn-HO-RTR-SD45-w-DCC-Sound-Norfolk-Souther-p/ath65105.htm
What do you think?
Hello! I'm new here, and this is my first post. I have a limited budget, around $300, and I have a few questions on how to get started.
I guess I'll start with the locomotives first. I don't know much about which brands are good or not, so I'll name a few locomotives I get and their manufacturers. These are all in HO scale by the way.
I've heard bad things about Bachmann, though. Are they cheap made or something? I really want a decent SD40 in the KCS scheme(s). I'm not looking to spend over $150 on a locomotive. What would you reccommend?
And after I get the HO scale locomotive, what else would I have to buy? I'm not looking to make a really big track, just a small track that'll go around my room.
Also, if I buy a train that has no sound, what would I have to buy? Here's the link to the Alco RS36 by the way:
https://www.pwrs.ca/announcements/view.php?ID=13676
Any help is greatly appreciated!