I Thought that Tenna was a brand of disposable breif.
Showing my age
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
ATLANTIC CENTRALOur model layouts are too short in most cases for all that "extra" activity. As for "forms", just simple switch lists for way freights and belt line switching. And simple timetables for CTC controlled mainline trains - start here, obey the signals, stop here, listen to the radio (or with what you are talking about, watch the tower orders) for changes. Sheldon
That's pretty much my philosophy, too. The protocol used should accommodate most of that sort of simulation. Switch lists might face some limits. The message size is limited to 236 bytes and each user gets up to 5 transmissions a minute. I suspect that's adequate for all but the largest, fastest-paced ops sessions. But I may be displaying my ignorance of software development and engineering here.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman Steve, That's true. Morse code befuddled me when I was working toward my First Class Scout badge. I recall at least one article (maybe in the NG&SL Gazette?) where operators actially had keys at each station to send code with. Just not my idea of fun. Probably most adults would join the teens in lining up for the phone over the key. My own philosophy on this is that simulating prototye operations is what I'm after, leaving out the stuff that's just busy work or drudgery. Form 19s? Yes. In Morse code? Probably not. That's why the goTenna interests me in connection with operations.
Steve,
That's true. Morse code befuddled me when I was working toward my First Class Scout badge. I recall at least one article (maybe in the NG&SL Gazette?) where operators actially had keys at each station to send code with. Just not my idea of fun. Probably most adults would join the teens in lining up for the phone over the key.
My own philosophy on this is that simulating prototye operations is what I'm after, leaving out the stuff that's just busy work or drudgery. Form 19s? Yes. In Morse code? Probably not. That's why the goTenna interests me in connection with operations.
Mike, I like operations, but I have to admit I am really into the simplified versions.
So in keeping with my eailer post here, I do like the idea of some sort of simple text message process to simulate the telegraph.
That said, my mainline operates with CTC. But it too is simplified, not a full blown CTC machine like other modelers have built.
Being a DC operator, my simplified CTC works like this:
The CTC panel is a schematic of the layout, just like a full blown CTC machine, but with way simpler controls.
Lighted pushbuttons control turnout routes, one button sets the whole route through an interlocking, LED's show signals and train detection, and lighted pushbuttons also assign blocks to trains (wireless throttles).
So each of the two step processes of a CTC machine have been reduced to a single step.
Push a button to set a route, push a button to assign the route, which automaticly clears the route signals.
Our model layouts are too short in most cases for all that "extra" activity.
As for "forms", just simple switch lists for way freights and belt line switching. And simple timetables for CTC controlled mainline trains - start here, obey the signals, stop here, listen to the radio (or with what you are talking about, watch the tower orders) for changes.
Sheldon
True that, Joe. I often thought once that was dropped, I'd be all over getting my ticket. But life has been too busy, with resources already committed to model railroading and supporting a fairly well-equipped listening post on the utility radio side of things, my main interest anyway.
In further conversation with the goTenna folks, they're actually pretty excited about the potential of the mesh system to support model railroad operations. To me, this is something that could fit within the JMRI ecosystem like WiThrottle and Engine Driver do. goTenna encourages development of other applications through their sofware designer's kit (SDK), available here:
https://www.gotenna.com/pages/sdk
The SDK provides developers the tools to build on the underlying Aspen Grove mesh protocol's capabilities to "transmit bursts of secure data" -- things like "telegrams," Form 19s and Clearance Cards should all be possible they tell me.
Unfortunately, despite past stabs at COBOL and PERL, I am not a developer. But if people who are developers are interested in seeing the potential goTenna holds to facilitate model railroad operatons, I'd certainly support their efforts and be willing to test and do other support tasks.
Back in the day you needed to know Morse code to get a ham radio license
Joe Staten Island West
Somebody needs to make a telegraph app on which you actually have to tap out Morse code to communicate. You can bet it won't be flooded with teenage users...
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
I suspect goTenna isn't so much worried about market share as about serving niche communities that find what they have useful. One of the big markets are people who attend mass events -- those that typically cause cell service to clog or become unreliable. There are only a handful of model railroad events that might cause such local disruptions, so this is someone else's use model, to be sure, at least in comparison to cell service.
For model train events, where issues often arise is with FRS radios when multiple module groups set up. Usage varies according to their operating scheme, but those who are most dependent, doing actual operations rather than just circling the set-up, are those who might find goTenna useful in reducing the need for airtime or multiple channels. Yep, that's far from everyone in the hobby, but might just be a good use case.
One advantage of goTenna pushing SMS to a simple app on your phone is that it avoids the distractions of email. I really wouldn't want to have to scroll through the ads for various stuff no one in their right mind would order on the internet or about having to worry about whitelisting the dispatcher in my email server. Like WiThrottle, goTenna's SMS service is simple and straightforward, helping to keep the focus on the trains in front of you.
Another aspect of goTenna that provides useful, easy flexibility is that it can set up private groups that you can broadcast to. Currently, the size limit is 10, but this is likely to see an increase in future firmware updates. The dispatcher could have groups for the yardmaster and road crews, while the yardmaster could speak with his yard crews. All with minimal muss and fuss. Obviously, this use case doesn't include a lot of folks, but goTenna may be a good solution.
As for cell service, that works for those who are using cell phones for WiThrottle or Engine Driver(or whatever the Android thingee is called). But many folks use a old, decommissioned cell phone for their throttle, so having dispatching done that way might mean having to carry an extra device or leave someone out who just couldn't handle that hurdle. Like me, since I don't own a cell and thus haven't aready paid for anything (and don't want to on a monthly basis), athough I have multiple hand-me-down WiThrottle's thanks to my wife's desire to have an up to date phone on a regular basis -- or at least before the battery melts down
While your reasons are all good reasons for some people to not need a goTenna, there are still plenty of cases where it could come in handy by leveraging an asset many already carry by putting a secure (not so much the Top Secret-grade encryption and other privacy features, but the fact that it is NOT on the internet at all these days) additional layer of useful communication in place that fits so well with the needs of those who do see the value in the device.
BTW, while I'm a goTenna owner (and experimenter) and participate in their oniine user community, I have no other interest, including financial, in the company. Just wanted to make people in our hobby aware of the potential I'm already seeing in it to be a very useful tool in other realms.
These devices just create an alternate network to carry your SMS text messages. If your layout room has no cell service these might be useful but otherwise why not just use the network that you've already paid for?
And BTW, Verizon offters a Samsung network extender that would bring cell service to the train room for everybody way cheaper than each person buying one of these devices. The 3G version (fine for SMS) can be had for $50 on eBay.
And also BTW, there are many text message apps available like WhatApp (there is even one called Telegram) that will let you send messages over wifi without cell service. If your intent is to simulate telegraph, you could just use email. Set up a private server in the train room if you want to avoid network delays.
I've got to believe that the number of folks that want to set up a private (but portable) network just to use SMS messaging in locations without cell service is a pretty small market. This looks to me like a solution in search of a problem.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL"Saving" the hobby today will have to fall to others.
I doubt any single thing will "save" the hobby. It's actually doing rather good, but I think that the news about how young folks get engaged just doesn't translate into what us old-timers may hear or see. But making the hobby accessible and attractive to all is a lot of little things. This surely can't hurt, though, so it's something I support because it's one of many reasons for model railroaders of all ages to get engaged with it. That's one of the strengths of the hobby, there's something for everyone if we can help those interested find what it is that works for them.
BTW, it's over my head, but I wonder if the software developers kit would allow the capability to create forms, like a Form 19, to be created so that the dispatcher just needed to fill in the blanks? This might be more than SMS can do, but would be a great addition if possible
Mike, agreed, the idea of a dispatcher sending telegrams is of interest.
As for the young people aspect, well honestly I don't give that much thought.
Young or old, I have never been good at anticipating the needs, wants, likes, dislikes or interests of other people. For me it is full time job to do the necessary amount of that regarding wife and family - total strangers, not a shot.
I did my "community service" in this hobby when I was young, behind the counter of the local hobby shop, instructing, explaining, repairing, etc.
"Saving" the hobby today will have to fall to others.
Yep, those things are tiny and I'm not all thumbz like those kids are...
Hey, wait a minute. This might just be one of those things that young folks might find interesting and attractive? Maybe.
SMS text messaging isn't just for phones. So long as you have SMS capability and Bluetooth, the goTenna should work with it. Your phone doesn't even need to be a phone, since my iPhone is that way, a hand me down that saved me from buying a new radio trhottle.
That means your iPad or other tablet will work, too. Dont like the touchscreen keyboards? Then grab a Bluetooth keyboard and use it with your iPad. I recently picked one up that works great with my iPad and my wife used it with her iPhone 8, too.
For operations use, most of the messsaging would be done by the dispatcher, so having a tablet + keyboard wont be a problem like it could be for operators. Those "on the road" would mostly be acknowledging receipt of orders, etc, so would have relatively less of a keyboard burden . That point is well taken, as not everyone is a fan of typing into their apps on a tiny and vague feeling keyboard.
Yep, the goTenna is something new and won't work for everyone. It does open up some real possibilities, though including making the hobby more attractive by making it more familair and relatable to young folks.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I however will pass. I'm not good at typing on those things, in fact I bought a tablet because my fingers simply cannot type on the small screeen of a smart phone.
I however will pass. I'm not good at typing on those things, in fact I bought a tablet because my fingers simply cannot type on the small screeen of a smart phone.
Me too. I have to use my smart phone but I HATE typing on it.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
For those who are smart phone savy, it does sound interesting.
And the touch screen throttle is a non starter for me even if I did go DCC........
But agreed, sending a written message like they did in the day would be interesting especially for TT & TO operations.
The mainline here is CTC.........
But it does give me an idea - a keypad at the dispatchers CTC panel could send telegrams to the tower panel locations......
I will think on it......
That all sounds very interesting for the operators amongst us.
.
It sounds like something a club sized layout could use. Interesting information.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Recently, some friends of my wife introduced her to a new device that could be very useful for model railroad operations, the goTenna Mesh. Many people already operate using a phone app as a wireless throttle; here, we use WiThrottle with iPhones, but Android devices have a similar app. Even if you don't use them, most still have a smart phone in their pocket anyway, even if you are still running DC or have jumped the shark and gone deadrail.
What the goTenna does is provides a means to send SMS text messaging without relying on cell service or the internet. It's a small unit about 5" tall and 1.5 inches wide that has a 1 watt UHF radio built in. It can send messages directly like other radios or act as a relay and hop several intermediary sites to get considerable distances. That really isn't needed on your layout, but the device offers a neat, turn-key way to simulate telegrams.
Preliminary testing shows that goTenna message alerts will be passed on with WiThrottle in use to let the user know an incoming message is present to read. This feature would allow taking much radio traffic off the air, freeing up bandwith and limiting the noise in the layout room. Range is plenty sufficient for any indoor layout and would work well for large scale outdoor layouts, too.
More info can be found here: https://www.gotenna.com/pages/mesh
Cost varies on quantty purchased, but is around what a quality FRS radio might cost (~$50 in quantity). There s a software developers kit available, so some customizationfor model railroad operations is poetntially possible and goTenna seems especially open to suggestions for improvements and added features. The goTenna Mesh version has only been on the marjket since last July, although an earlier version has been around longer.
So this is new technology, although not untested. There is an active user community already, although I think I'm the first to suggest this use for the goTenna: https://www.gotenna.com/pages/mesh
I'll add more as things fall into place, but others may want to look and consider what this could do to facilitate ops on your layout. The goTenna Mesh holds potential to limit the amount of extraneous noise in the railroad layout room, replicate some of the functionality of prototype operations, and facilitate the safe operation of the line by crews. In a sense, for thos already familar with using FRS for many of the same things, goTenna is a lot like “FRS text.” Although that term undersells the overall capabilities of the goTenna, is is very descriptive for those who could use it to substitute for much of the work done by means of voice in model railroading.