Perhaps a better definition of "train set" would be to consider it a purchased product in the first place.
Placing it on the floor, carpet or on a table is really the only way to use it as such. It's temporary nature- disassembling the track and replacing it in its box renders it a toy per se. Establishing a permanent location by building a fixed support base is the point where it goes from a toy to a layout. In that context, a 4x8 plywood surface, an operational module are layouts. A static diorama - or for that matter- a set of cars and an engine on a display track are merely exhibits- the same way a model airplane built from a kit is different from an RC airplane that flies.
My $.02 (hey- my phone has a $, a € and a £ symbol but no "cents".) Makes no sense!
Cedarwoodron
I think we would all agree that the Virginian & Ohio is a layout.
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I think we would all agree the three sections of 9"Atlas Snap Track on a glass shelf with a locomotive sitting on it is not a layout.
Somewhere is between those two examples we all have our tipping point to where we consider it to be a layout. I doubt any concensus is possible.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
dknelsonSomeone said a test track didn't count but why not?
I would argue that a test track could be part of a layout, but a test track is not necessarily a layout. I built a short DCC/test track as a siding on my layout originally. It was on the lower level and while that's fine for operating it was a pain when testing. So I opted for a separate test track, although it's right next to staging in another room now. It is separate from the layout intentionally, so that's why it's not a layout. Or maybe it's a "test layout"? YMMV
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
dknelsonSomeone said a test track didn't count but why not? Because it is too short? What if it was 50 feet long? What does a test track lack that something we would all agree IS a layout doesn't also lack? Scenery, turnouts, pretend business purpose -- ? If we rule those out as essential, why isn't a test track a layout, albeit one we wouldn't care to tour during an NMRA convention .....
Dave,Thanks for picking up on that thought..I threw that out and was hoping to hear a test track could be a museum operation just by adding two coaches behind a locomotive or perhaps a museum trolley operation by stringing some overhead wire.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I think; therefore my layout is.
LINK to SNSR Blog
I'm with Dave. Otherwise, how could we mean anything intelligent or intelligible when we say, "A layout is never finished?" It's a layout...or not. There is no 'finished'. With apologies to the Master.
"What is a layout?" is not an existential question. "Why is a layout?" - now THAT'S existential.
Are trains that run the tipping point? If I recreated the entire Gorre & Daphetid in my basement but held off electrical connections until last, would it be a layout only once I did actually run a train but not the moment before that? That seems incorrect.
Track seems to be a requirement, but is scenery? I remember seeing a photo of a huge layout, maybe Howard Zane's, before scenery was applied. It looked like a layout to me! Turnouts? Some prototype railroads, admittedly rare examples, are just track from here to there with no turnouts. A replication of a business purpose - is that the test? These Christmas layouts with the streetcar that just goes endlessly back and forth - they seem like layouts. Not glorious ones perhaps.
Someone said a test track didn't count but why not? Because it is too short? What if it was 50 feet long? What does a test track lack that something we would all agree IS a layout doesn't also lack? Scenery, turnouts, pretend business purpose -- ? If we rule those out as essential, why isn't a test track a layout, albeit one we wouldn't care to tour during an NMRA convention .....
Dave Nelson
I just tell people I'm trying to get electrons to flow in a concentric circle
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
We been thru this a while back and I had my butt handed to me.But this time You asked,
If you told me you had a layout;I would think, track that went somewhere,a yard spur,depot. A controlable power unit,rolling stock that kinda fit together[time frame]. there would be buildings,cars,trucks,trees ect. of the same size/scale.
At first glance,you would assume a minature world,even if still in progess.
A section of any of this ,I would call a display,witch are neat in thire own right.
A oval of track, with mismatch equipment and accessories is a train set.
You asked.
When we moved into our new house 10 years ago, I put up adjustable shelving along the north wall of the basement. On one shelf I put down some Kato Unitrack and hooked it up to my Digitrax Zephyr. Even though it was only like 10' of straight track, since I could run an engine on it, I considered it from that day on to be a "layout".
Re G.I. Joe, I still have my 'year one' (1964 IIRC) G.I. Joe I got for Xmas, and the Mercury space capsule (and box) with the spacesuit. As I recall, Hasbro coined the term "ACTION FIGURE" so they didn't have to refer to Joe as a "doll"...or was it coined for the Major Matt Mason space line?
The title sounds existential or deeply philosophical. I'm not in the right frame of mind to ponder it and comment.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
To my mind a test track is not a layout however,add switches,some industrial buildings and you have a ISL a functional layout.
See this site for really small layouts http://www.carendt.com/
It's kind of like who's a model railroader. If you think it's a layout, then it is.
For me, if I can run trains on it, however small the trains are and however short the run is, it's a layout.
Paul
ACY Tom I guess if you can operate your trains on it, it's a layout. If nothing runs, it's a display. That leaves a lot of leeway for size, level of scenery, etc. Tom
I guess if you can operate your trains on it, it's a layout. If nothing runs, it's a display. That leaves a lot of leeway for size, level of scenery, etc.
Tom
Sounds about right to me. I'll go with Tom's definiton.
Are we searching for a distinction that doesn't really need to be made? If my little switching layout looks more like a diorama to you, OK with me. My unpowered, unwired photo diorama becomes an operating layout when I put a battery operated loco on the track.
tedtedderson So what constitutes a layout?
So what constitutes a layout?
Oh, c'mon.
Track. At least slightly "connected". On a surface.
Power supply.
Am I missing something?
Oh, yeah. Maybe just a hint of imagination and yearning.
Ed
tedteddersonNow they ask about my "train set". Never once have I uttered those words to them.
I recall a thread here a few years back regarding the things "common people" say when visiting layouts.
One of the replies was a question someone asked when viewing a basement-sized, full scenery layout — "How many train sets did you have to buy to make all this?"
I guess every hobby has their share of "uninitiated" outsiders.
Regards, Ed
A layout is where you lay out your train track and models. It can be temporary or etched in stone. I think you could consider it anything other than just having tracks on the carpet but that could be a layout also even if it just lasts for a weekend. So my answer is a layout is when you assemble some track and maybe put a locomotive or some rolling stock on it but you don’t have to. It could be an abandoned right of way.
I use the words “train set” when I refer to the hobby to friends, colleagues, etc. I find it more approachable. Geeking out on “model railroad engineering” and “ops” etc feels .. well ... a bit geeky.
gmpullman operating domain? Cheers! Ed
operating domain?
Cheers! Ed
Love it.
I made the mistake of letting my co-workers in on how I spend my free time. Now they ask about my "train set". Never once have I uttered those words to them.
T e d
gmpullmanWhen I was younger I had a bunch of G.I. Joe dolls. Never would I tell any of my friends I was playing with dolls, no way — no how. Today I would be a "War Gamer".
LOL... Ed, anytime you want to join the "real" wargamers (beer drinkers), just come on down!
Mike,
You're not snarky. Truthful. Which ain't a bad thing. I appreciate your concern for my feeling
It is a bit on the philosophical side. Just trying to get the forum thinking a little deeper. Kind of like worrying about the lack of the younger generation in the hobby on the one hand, but pouncing on them when they want to participate in a way that doesn't conform to our old crusty ways on the other. "Join our club, we're dying without you...BUT LEAVE YOUR PHONE AT HOME!" Probably won't attract much. But someone else can start that fire. I'm trying to define the undefinable... I think a layout needs to have some permanence to it, whether that be intentional or otherwise. T e d
I believe it all has to do with semantics.
I'm really playing with trains in a pretend world.
It certainly sounds much better, especially in public, to say I'm "Operating The Layout".
When I was younger I had a bunch of G.I. Joe dolls. Never would I tell any of my friends I was playing with dolls, no way — no how. Today I would be a "War Gamer".
I don't believe scenery or any kind of structures have anything to do with calling it a "layout". I think once your train set becomes, more-or-less, a somewhat permanent fixture, then it becomes a layout...
Or a pike; empire; operating domain?
How many more names are there for an assembly of track, wiring and supporting structure?
To me a layout is anywhere you can run trains through realistic scenery.
I guess that is because I feel that when the scenery is down, the scene is complete.
I am sure there are different oppinions. I look forward to reading them.
OK, never mind. Deleted it all. WAY too "snarky".
Mike.
My You Tube
User SeeYou190 created a thread that I didn't want to hijack. His thread is about participating without a layout and posted a picture of how he participates using his photo studio to take pictures and post them to the Show Me Something thread. I was surprised to learn he doesn't have a layout... in the traditional sense.
So what constitutes a layout? The picture that SeeYou190 posted of his diorama looks a like my switching layout, less a few feet, although still similar. Another forum member said he isn't going to build a layout since he lives in an apartment. Instead he's going to put up shelves and some track to do a little switching. Isn't THAT a layout? At what point do the boards, risers, track, rolling stock, and scenery become a layout? Is there a minimum requirement?
Edit: a link to the aforementioned thread: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/267146/3023272.aspx#3023272
[Link made clickable by moderator]