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Peco turnouts spring with tortoise machine

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Peco turnouts spring with tortoise machine
Posted by Semi4 on Tuesday, January 02, 2018 12:12 PM

I am using peco SL-91 and SL-92 turnouts and plan to use the tortoise machine to control the turnouts. Do I have to remove the overcenter spring from the turnouts to use the tortoise machines?

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Posted by trevorsmith3489 on Tuesday, January 02, 2018 12:22 PM

Yes

the spring is there to hold the turnout blade firm against the stock rail, the tortoise machine does this through its “stall” motor. In addition the spring “snaps” the turnout blades into position and interferes with the slow movement of the tortoise motor.

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Posted by IC Fan on Tuesday, January 02, 2018 2:53 PM

For what it's worth, one of the owners at a local hobby shop said he does not remove the Peco springs. Rather, he just uses a heavier gauge wire to throw the points. Circuitron provides a .025" wire. He recommends two sizes heavier - .047 or so. As trevorsmith mentions, you won't get a smooth-action throw anymore but the LHS claimed it would work.

FYI, I have not tried this. If I use any tortoises with PECO turnouts, I plan to remove the spring or throw them by hand in some way.

Vince

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, January 02, 2018 5:37 PM

 Have to, no, but you won't have slow motion point movement unless you do.

                              --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, January 02, 2018 5:40 PM

If you remove those springs, save them in case you ever decide to sell the Peco turnouts.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by dinwitty on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 3:44 AM
take them out, it interferes with the tortoise, slow motion or not. The tortoise has all the springing you want.
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 5:46 AM

richhotrain

If you remove those springs, save them in case you ever decide to sell the Peco turnouts.

Rich

 

Now that is an interesting perspective I never would have considered......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 5:55 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
 
richhotrain

If you remove those springs, save them in case you ever decide to sell the Peco turnouts.

Rich 

Now that is an interesting perspective I never would have considered......

Sheldon

 

I have yet to sell a Peco turnout, but I have sold used Atlas turnouts. It definitely helps the selling process (eBay) if you have the original packaging, rail joiners, and anything else that came in the original packaging. That would include the spring on Peco turnouts.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 6:15 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
ATLANTIC CENTRAL wrote the following post 20 minutes ago: richhotrain If you remove those springs, save them in case you ever decide to sell the Peco turnouts. Rich   Now that is an interesting perspective I never would have considered......

Actually I find myself in that exact boat as it were. If my back pain issues are not able to be resolved I will not be building a layout. I tried to carry one end of a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" plywood at the club on Tuesday night but I couldn't do it because of the pain. That is after having been on medical cannabis for six weeks. It has helped a bit but not much. That leaves me with about $1000 worth of Peco turnouts with the springs already removed. Fortunately I saved the springs so if and when I try to sell them I can reinstall the springs and hopefully they will have retained their value.

Dave

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 2:16 PM

richhotrain

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
 
richhotrain

If you remove those springs, save them in case you ever decide to sell the Peco turnouts.

Rich 

Now that is an interesting perspective I never would have considered......

Sheldon

 

 

 

I have yet to sell a Peco turnout, but I have sold used Atlas turnouts. It definitely helps the selling process (eBay) if you have the original packaging, rail joiners, and anything else that came in the original packaging. That would include the spring on Peco turnouts.

 

Rich

 

That is amazing. The last thing on this planet that I would ever consider saving is the blister pack from an Atlas turnout.......

But then again, I am still in that old school that installs most trackwork in ways that render its successful removal and reuse nearly impossible.........

I have managed from time to time to save a few turnouts, mostly ones from hidden staging yards.

But I solder all my rail joints, and glue down all my ballast, paint all my track, an for the last 20 years of my 50 years at this, I have been glueing down track (except turnouts) with adheasive caulk.

Once glued to homasote or wood roadbed, soldered, painted, and ballasted, the labor necessary to make an attempt at reuse far exceeds its value - Atlas keeps unloading those containers full of those 300 pc boxes of the stuff.......

But, my latest layout initiative call for careful modular design and cabinet level construction to allow relocation and reconfiguration with minimal reconstruction.

No more tearing down and starting completely over for me.........

And unless I find myself starving and homeless, selling stuff off is more work then making more money to buy more........

But that's just me....

Sheldon

    

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Posted by owen w in california on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 2:26 PM

For HO, it's probably ok to use a heavier wire. However, in N, my experience with Peco's and motors tells me it's critical to remove the spring if using a tortoise or other motor. If you leave in the spring, the combination of the spring's resistance and the heavier wire will eventually result in the tearing of the plastic throwbar.  This is using the existing hole in the end of the throwbar. (Never tried to drill the center of an N gauge Peco.)  Joel

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 2:47 PM

owen w in california

For HO, it's probably ok to use a heavier wire. However, in N, my experience with Peco's and motors tells me it's critical to remove the spring if using a tortoise or other motor. If you leave in the spring, the combination of the spring's resistance and the heavier wire will eventually result in the tearing of the plastic throwbar.  This is using the existing hole in the end of the throwbar. (Never tried to drill the center of an N gauge Peco.)  Joel

I model N scale using Pecos throughout. Even with a heavier spring lever (0.035" I think), the Tortoise still can't throw the bar. I moved the fulcrum up and down to max limits. No go.

I removed the v-springs on about 45 turnouts so far. Saved them all in a little plastic pill bottle. Never considered selling recycled turnouts, but if I did I'd enclose the spring separately. Has anyone ever actually tried re-installing that spring? I have. Exactly once. I'm nearsighted and have pretty steady hands. It took about 30 minutes. Never again.

Robert 

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 3:34 PM

ROBERT PETRICK

Has anyone ever actually tried re-installing that spring? I have. Exactly once. I'm nearsighted and have pretty steady hands. It took about 30 minutes. Never again.

Gotta use an Optivisor!

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 3:58 PM

Gotta use an Optivisor!

Rich

Geeked Vision is not the problem. Nearsighted means I can see small things close. I take off my glasses to read. I can't see the tree on the other side of the house, but I can read micro-text on a twenty dollar bill.

The problem is those #&%# springs are v-shaped. You need to hold slight tension and partially close the gap. Then hook one end into the slot while pushing down and back to get the other end into the other slot. Holding slight and steady pressure on the spring causes it to slide off the ends of the pliers. V-shaped! Sproing!

I tried round anvil pliers, flat anvils, bent nosed, stay-open tweezers, plain tweezers . . . what I need is three hands: one to tension the spring, one to feed one hook, and one to feed the other hook.

Robert

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 3:59 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

That is amazing. The last thing on this planet that I would ever consider saving is the blister pack from an Atlas turnout.......

 

That's funny.

- Douglas

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 4:22 PM

ROBERT PETRICK
 
 

Gotta use an Optivisor!

Rich

 

 

Geeked Vision is not the problem. Nearsighted means I can see small things close. I take off my glasses to read. I can't see the tree on the other side of the house, but I can read micro-text on a twenty dollar bill.

The problem is those #&%# springs are v-shaped. You need to hold slight tension and partially close the gap. Then hook one end into the slot while pushing down and back to get the other end into the other slot. Holding slight and steady pressure on the spring causes it to slide off the ends of the pliers. V-shaped! Sproing!

I tried round anvil pliers, flat anvils, bent nosed, stay-open tweezers, plain tweezers . . . what I need is three hands: one to tension the spring, one to feed one hook, and one to feed the other hook.

Robert

 

I don't care if someone has 20/20 vision. You need an Optivisor, or something like it, to put that spring back in place on a Peco turnout.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by KemacPrr on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 4:58 PM

Over the years Peco has had a few different turnout spring mounts. If yours have the ones that the spring plate is held in with a metal tab that is U shaped just loosining the tab and sliding the spring plate away from the throwbar lessens the spring tension. This can be done on turnouts already installed. Again it all depends on what style spring plate. ---  Ken 

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