I have one hidden turnout under my city with an access hatch (from above). It is the main track joined with a long passing siding.
My concern is that during operations sessions, someday, that turnout or tortoise may break or otherwise malfuncion. I wanted to be sure that only 3 conditions can result and that I'm not missing anything:
l. turnout will only work on one route due to some unknown reason (needs an adjustment or the tortoise does...)with no time to mess around "a lot" during a session.
2. or if "broken", the turnout points might flop side to side as rolling stock passes through it.
3. the tortoise switch machine "dies" and I have to pull the throw wire and pin the points to one side or the other for the remainder of the session. as a fix.
Will I always be able to make that turnout work one of the above ways, via a temporary "jury rig" without bringing a session to a halt?
The room size and layout geometry won't allow the relocation of said turnout but if it ever became an ongoing problem (none so far) I could always use the passing track as a long stub ended siding until things get resolved.
My own fault for wanting a large urban area with the area over the hidden turnout being the only choice for a location.
Fixing a derailment should one ever occur there is quick and easy due to the access hatch but I'm trying to avoid the "walk of shame" that could occur if the turnout itself ever goes awry.
Thanks as always, Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
I consider myself quite capable and generally pretty savvy after a time in a venture. But I still have my face rubbed in 'it' once in a while at my advanced age. One of those occasions was on my last layout. I had a very nice Peco Code 83 #6 buried just inside a portal to my large helix. Now, think for a minute...how much trouble do you suppose that one turnout ever gave me in the nearly three years I was able to enjoy that layout? Go on....take a SWAG.
So as not to be ambiguous, I'll state categorically: Do NOT situate a turnout in a place where you will regret your decision, and it's hard to get to if you have to change the geometry or to replace the appliance.
Don't do it, Jim. Figure out something else. I was able to lift off my mountain top on purpose because I wanted to hedge my bets. Good thing, too. Even so, I still had a lot of grief over that one turnout. The fates were not kind to me.
Lots of things can go wrong with a turnout, its drive, and its controls, so your list is not exhaustive...
That said, once installed and working, the Tortoise itself is very unlikely to cause problems. I have a couple of hundred. I usually leave the power on the layout because I'm in there so much. I may have had ONE failure in the last quarter century, so if you do the math that's several hundred years of service between failures with them.
The trackwork itself and the linkage between it and the Tortoise are more likely to cause problems. If you have access, you'll be OK, but still vulnerable to the Visitor Gremlin. Could happen, but if it does, yes, you'll likely be stuck one way or the other through the turnout -- although both could be affected in a worst case scenario.
Yep, don't do hidden track...but I did. I wish there was an alternative, but the room was only so big. I built it as bulleproof as possible and from the top down to ensure access. I have minimal issues with it, but you must be at the top of your game to get it right or you will have regrets.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Tortoises never fail.
They are indestructable.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Tortoises never fail. They are indestructable. Rich
Pretty much.
I do have one bad one I now use as the pattern for my standard suite of pigtail wires I add. IIRC, it was on the shelf some time before I used it back in the early days of the Four Corners Division, I don't think it was ever installed. I'd bught from several vendors and wasn't sure who sold it to me, so didn't want to bother with a return which would've been way out of date.
Since this was also in the early days of the Tortoise, it may have simply been a factory defect that slipped through for some reason.
Other than that, your statement pretty much holds. People look at the price of the Tortoise and compare to other drives and think they're a little pricey. But you'll most likely never have to replace a Tortoise and that's worth the price of admission to me in terms of convenience alone, cost of materials aside.
richhotrain Tortoises never fail.They are indestructable
Amen. One out of 36 I have (half are less than 2 years in operation, half are 5 years in operation) failed because I drilled through it. It will join a DS-64 which I also drilled through on a wall-mounted display tyta reminds me to “Call before digging”
NP
NP01“Call before digging”
Always good advice, whether 1:87 or 1:1.
Thanks for the input. The turnout has been installed for several years and there is no way to move it. If I remove it if it ever starts being troublesome my only remaining choice in this room is to make the passing siding stubb ended, ending near the (then removed) trunout's former location.
I have to retain this pasing siding as it's the only long one on the layout and also cannot be relocated.
I think if I'm backing a 15 car train slowly down that stub ended siding I shouldn't have any stringlining problems, etc. Do any of you or friends of yours have such a siding on a grade? (3% at the top).
I'm strongly inclined to keep the turnout where it is as long as I wouldn't have to bring an ops session to a halt if it's 99% likely to allow either one route or another. I can't see how it could jam "in the middle" between straight and divergent...
During a session either route will work for scheduled passenger trains or freights so as long as one route is always going to be working during a failure and I can tack it in place if necessary during that session and quickly resume the session I'll probably leave it where it is.
I have easy access via the hatch from above so am inclined to leave it as it's preferable to the stub siding alternative.
Thanks for the input and specifics. I'd be interested to hear from stub ended on a grade passing siding people though if you're out there.
Jim
You are right to worry about derailments and track and turnout failures in hidden (underground) track. On the other hand, it can be made to work. The North Shore MRR Club has a huge layout with an astounding amount of hidden trackage. The layout operated very well, with very few underground catastrophes. I was favorable impressed. The secret is extremely well laid track. Level, no vertical jogs between flex track lengths, good track gauge, Turnout point rails filed to a perfect match with the stock rails, no kinks. Long curves made of several pieces of flex track soldered together on the bench and carefully curved to fit. Care taken to insure NO extra sharp curves underground. It helped that North Shore had a lot of very skilled track layers. We have people who hand laid dual gauge turnouts for fun.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
That Tortuise is all but bulletproof. (Bullets, and as mentioned, drills, can kill them. Not much else can.)
That Tortoise won't be the issue.
That grade has me wondering, is the turnout part of the grade? If so, it's still level, with both rails even, and no bumps, right?
Any place there is a bump or low/high rail will cause issues, and should be fixed before going any further.
If the track work is just as bulletproof as the tortoise is, then you are fine. (Until the gremlins unscrew a screw under a moving train, as it passes over that turnout....) That Tortoise won't give you any issues. Period. Make the track work the same.
Then, barring a turnout failure, or train derailment, you won't have any issues. Hidden track or not.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Against everything I read, I have serveral turnouts on grade (2-2.5%). They work fine .. as long as the grade is smooth and no transitions 12” from the turnout.