I'm working on an N-scale model railroad set in South Dakota in the 1980s. Weed grown track, second-hand locomotives, shortline penny pinching. I've been building a collection of Milwaukee Road and Chicago Great Western locomotives to fill the roster. In this era of limited production runs, it takes a while to source the locomotives I want, and they aren't cheap.
My vision is for downtrodden and beat up power--heavy weathering, fresh paint on single body panels were repairs were made, "bandit" paint stripes covering up old road names, hastily stenciled marks for my short line.
My problem is the angst that comes from the thought of "vandalizing" that CGW F3 or MILW SD-9 that took forever to find on eBay. Weathering is one thing--but painting over the road name and making it as ugly as I want seems like a crime. I'm taking this less-than-common model and making it good only for me and my roadname. Seems like a crime against humanity (or at least the the greater community of model railroaders).
Anybody else have such hesitation?
I've considered it with trepidation then realized, it can always be changed back to a pristine F-3 or SD-9. If you can paint and weather it to suit yourself...I can certainly do it to suit me!
WP Lives
I've been in your shoes more than once. That's why I'd rather use a cheap second hand loco to do my "dirty work" on so I won't feel so bad about it...
TODD SCHULTZAnybody else have such hesitation?
TODD
Not "hesitation" exactly, but a certain skill level is certainly necessary to pull it off to look convincing.
I'm planning to do a couple of ex-New York Central E-7s into a Penn-Central "patch-out" scheme. P-C knew the E7s weren't long for this world at the time of the merger so few, if any, were fully painted into the P-C black like many of the E8s were.
Often, the gray got washed out and much of the white or very light gray under coat shone through. The nose door would have been painted shiny black with a P-C worm emblem slapped on right over the NYC "cigar band" emblem.
Penn Central E-units, power for the Valparaiso train Chicago by Mark LLanuza, on Flickr
I have done a few ex_PRR passenger cars into Penn-Central but they didn't look nearly as down-trodden as some of the locomotives did.
Good Stuff! Ed
The idea of deliberately making something less attractive goes against the grain for most of us. No one I know goes out and weathers their automobile.
And it will most likely make your locomotive less valuable. But then this is a hobby not an investment.
So grit your teeth and do it.
Good luck
Paul
I went through this, sorta, when I beat up my first Kato. Most of my "prize" locos of such quality are all NOS, and valuable only to me.
I do have an Athearn Genesis that my wife gave me a couple of years ago for Christmas. I've been treading lightly with that one.
And, most of my weathering is with powders, chaulks, and acrylics (dry brushing techniques), which all can be removed.
Have at it OP, practice first with prototype pics, and build your "financially strapped" MILW. The way it actually lived out it's final years. I like your concept, and hopefully we will see some pictures of your efferts.
Mike.
My You Tube
IRONROOSTERAnd it will most likely make your locomotive less valuable.
Perhaps not if it's done right.
One useful place to start researching effective weathering techniques, and see examples, is the proto:48 group. Several of the passed masters in good technique regularly participate ... and advise ... there, and they have blogs that contain more wisdom 'free' than any published reference I know of.
The point of proper weathering on models begins with making them look as 'realistic' as possible -- no sheen, no plastic appearance, no excessive thickness at the windows, and so forth. I would advise 'getting there' first, and then staging gradually into deeper and deeper 'age' weathering as you gain knowledge first of the effects, and then how to realize them.
In my opinion a proper job of painting and weathering adds great value to almost anything except a special limited-edition custom-painted engine (like the last run of the UP steam turbines with the lighted nose signs). There's a difference between surgery and butchering, and there's a difference between proper weathering and 'dirtifying' (for want of a better word). And yes, I love seeing a good job of 'heavy weathering' just as I appreciate one of those multi-year buildings which lovingly recreate 100 years of mess and clutter in excruciating miniature...
TODD SCHULTZ....Weathering is one thing--but painting over the road name and making it as ugly as I want seems like a crime. I'm taking this less-than-common model and making it good only for me and my roadname....
If you're serious about having the locomotives suit your needs, then they become, to you, more valuable. Their value to others becomes immaterial.
I don't think that I've ever owned a locomotive or piece of rolling stock that I haven't modified to suit my needs or preferences.When I backdated my layout's operating era, and had to sell the too-modern stuff, I was surprised that it went not only quickly, but for extremely good prices, often two or three times what I had originally payed.
If you do your modifications and weathering well, then somewhere down the road decide to change course, as I did, you may be surprised to find that what you've done is indeed appealing to others.
Wayne
I struggle a bit with this too. Having saved a few HO pieces from my childhood (mostly streamlined 4-6-2 Pacifics & passenger sets) I now find myself at a crossroads: They require significant surgery/modification to be suitable for the DCC control I now use, but they're rare-ish and go for $$$ (for plastic) on eBay when "like new" condition.
OTOH, they're useless to me as model trains in their current state, and upgrading to DCC would fix that - and give me the freedom to make other modifications to fix scale inaccuracies, as 'preserving' their factory state will already be moot.
One day I'll just do it - they're my trains after all, I never acquired them as investment pieces.
TODD SCHULTZ I'm working on an N-scale model railroad set in South Dakota in the 1980s. Weed grown track, second-hand locomotives, shortline penny pinching. I've been building a collection of Milwaukee Road and Chicago Great Western locomotives to fill the roster. In this era of limited production runs, it takes a while to source the locomotives I want, and they aren't cheap. My vision is for downtrodden and beat up power--heavy weathering, fresh paint on single body panels were repairs were made, "bandit" paint stripes covering up old road names, hastily stenciled marks for my short line. My problem is the angst that comes from the thought of "vandalizing" that CGW F3 or MILW SD-9 that took forever to find on eBay. Weathering is one thing--but painting over the road name and making it as ugly as I want seems like a crime. I'm taking this less-than-common model and making it good only for me and my roadname. Seems like a crime against humanity (or at least the the greater community of model railroaders). Anybody else have such hesitation?
First off, get over the idea that your model trains, especially plastic mass produced HO or N scale model trains, have any real long term monatary value.
They don't.
They are just little toys for big boys. Play with your toys as you see fit.
IF you bought you model trains thinking you were investing in something of value, learn quickly that the only "value" in them is the fun and personal satisfaction YOU get from them.
I am a freelance modeler, I paint stuff up for my fictional railroad. I weather it, although my weathering preference is rather "well cared for and slighly dirty".
I have no expectation of ever reselling any of my models, and I buy them with the same kind of money I use to take my wife to dinner - money I can afford to never recoup.
I have been at this for 50 years, and in my younger years I worked in a hobby shop selling trains.
Some people like buying and selling "used" trains - good for them, that is a hobby within this hobby.
Personally, while I do buy some stuff that is technically "used", I very seldom buy anything "already been played with". So even if you left them in their factory schemes, with no weathering, you have limited the number of buyers just by taking them out and running them for a few years.
I will buy a 40 year old unbuilt freight car kit, but I would not buy a 5 year old lightly weathered loco without a box from your layout.
One more thought, if you think you will get bored with this theme or layout concept, then you have to decide, becuase when you do get bored, these items will have little value to anyone else. BUT, there is no guarantee that left un-modified that they will retain any real value to others either.
Just because you wanted them and had a hard time finding them is no assurance that others want them now, or will want them if you loose interest........
I have brass locos I have modified, put plastic tenders behind, painted for my freelance railroad - so what, they are MY toys......and they make my layout look the way I want it - that is their ONLY important value.
Sheldon
A few more thoughts:
There are several responses above commenting on the market for well painted and weathered models. And yes I am aware that there is a some sort of market for this sort of thing.
But I do consider that potentially "trendy", what a few people are willing to pay for today may be valueless tomorrow - or 5 years from now - or it may be all that much more the rage - no way to know.
Because I am fussy, not just about painting and weathering, but about trucks, couplers, and other mechanical stuff, buying someone else's weathered equipment is just not for me.
But as I said before, I don't buy "already been played with".........
I like to be the first person to mess around with it, and the last........until the wife has that big yard sale when I'm gone.........
Sometimes it just makes more sense to do the mods than not. The point is not to make your models more or less attractive. The point is to make them represent what you see in the real world. I am often put off by those who use unmodified USRA locomotives, or stand-ins, to represent engines that had a decidedly different appearance on the railroad modeled, in the reputed time frame. Of course that is the individual modeler's prerogative, and none of us has the right to tell somebody else how to have fun. I only say that such items are jarring to MY eyes and would not be satisfying to me personally.
So go out and find photos of the items you want to represent, and copy what you see, as closely as you can. And if you mess up, it's only plastic; and there is such a thing as paint remover.
Tom
Note; I'm not into this type of modeling but, Is it any different than buying a $80 sheet of plywood,cutting it into small pieaces,drilling holes and then covering it with paint. In the end you can't even see it.
You want/need a .... thats not out there to buy,must be built, you need raw materials,parts. Does it mater where they come from?
Remember people freyying over their brass and some were real pricey, then the market dropped out and for many has not recovered. Point is you never know when or if something of leisure is an investment or an item only important to you. Their is a reason behind this, demand. I garentee you that if all of a sudden Action Comics #1 which sold for over $3,000,000 was collected by many people in original condition or if a hord was found, the price would plumit. On e-bay I have sold a toy layout auto I got for free for $35 and lost money on a couple brass that I got at bargin basement prices for a wash, glad I got such a good deal on the brass originaly.
I used to worry about "value" until I got to thinking about what I am willing to pay for "previously enjoyed" model trains -- that being, pennies on the dollar. That is all I'd get for my stuff assuming it is sold and not just thrown away. So go at it, I say.
I will say this, which I also point out in my weathering clinics. Most weathering techniques and methods involve skill and judgement, to some degree or another, as do detailing and kitbashing and other such modifications. Skill takes practice and it is unrealistic to expect to get it perfect the first time you try. This didn't matter so much when you were working on a $1.98 Blue Box freight car -- so what if you only got it right by the third try? It matters more now. If you are worried about "value" not for resale but rather in the sense that you paid a lot for that beautiful Tangent freight car or Broadway Limited locomotive, then, yes, practice on something cheaper until you feel comfortable. Swap meet tables are groaning with cheap trains that are good fodder for practicing things.
Dave Nelson
ACY Tom Sometimes it just makes more sense to do the mods than not. The point is not to make your models more or less attractive. The point is to make them represent what you see in the real world. I am often put off by those who use unmodified USRA locomotives, or stand-ins, to represent engines that had a decidedly different appearance on the railroad modeled, in the reputed time frame. Of course that is the individual modeler's prerogative, and none of us has the right to tell somebody else how to have fun. I only say that such items are jarring to MY eyes and would not be satisfying to me personally. So go out and find photos of the items you want to represent, and copy what you see, as closely as you can. And if you mess up, it's only plastic; and there is such a thing as paint remover. Tom
This is how I see it as well. We each have a responsibility to discern, and to achieve, what we want in our play time. Which is all this is. To the extent that we achieve our aims, we'll be happy. What makes any one of us happy might very well horrify an onlooker. Weathering, I'm sure, and bashing, does very much horrify some people.
When I was newer in the hobby, I was greatly averse to weathering up my beautiful locomotives. Once I began to appreciate all it took to produce a nice Photo Phun image, and to force me to do a double take, I realized what I had to do, and I took a deep breath. The first loco I weathered was that beautiful little gem from Life Like, their Proto 2000 0-6-0 switcher. It turned out okay; I used chalk powders, real chalk, and some DullCote. Did I say 'okay'? That's all, just okay, but I appreciated that it's a necessary first step in learning.
It was when I tackled my costly and new PCM Y6b that my heart was in my mouth. You would have to be kind, or charitable, to call it a good job, but really, even if I say so myself, it's not half bad. And, it looks a lot more realistic to me than the way I first cast eyes on it.
Between hospital stays(twice last month) I'm "destroying" a BLI SW7 that's lettered for USAF-I liked the color- and trying to leave some "ghost" lettering to show its former owner..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Get well, Larry!
Model railroading does have an element of collecting about it. Some do nothing but collect, and that's cool, as well as the person who takes a nice, collectable loco and dirties it up, artistically. Go for whichever suits, but if you're conflicted, then think about it some more so you're confident you're making the right decision whatever it is. As was mentioned by Sheldon, there are actually very few HO items that are truly collectable and rare enough to worry over and you probably already know what they are if you spent the bucks to acquire them versus finding them in the attaic after Grandpa passed on.
You'll likely only regret making them truly yours if you mess them up vs the vision you had for them. Thus, find some items you truly don't care about and parctice on them first.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Hello all,
TODD SCHULTZMy vision is for downtrodden and beat up power--heavy weathering, fresh paint on single body panels were repairs were made, "bandit" paint stripes covering up old road names, hastily stenciled marks for my short line.
This was the thought process behind the Gorre & Daphetid R.R.!
Weather away!!!
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I agree with the people who say practice on other cars first and after you are good at it then do your locomotives. Don’t start with your most valuable piece. Start with something you can thrash. Learn and get better until you have confidence in your skills. And nobody says you have to do the whole locomotive at once. Maybe just start with some soot on the exhaust or something else that is simple. I started out on freight cars that I didn’t care to much before I did cars that I really like. I still keep most of my diesels clean except for the exhaust because a bright shiny silver exhaust doesn’t look good when it’s black on the real thing.
First of all... to the forums.
.
Hey... It is your locomotive and your railroad. Make it into whatever you want. In spite of how hard they might have been to find, they are replaceable. I needed several hard to find brass cabooses for my railroad, it took four years, but I have them all now.
Once you have modified the locomotive, it will truly be yours, unique, prized, and not so easily replaced.
HAVE FUN!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
selector If that is your weathering attempt, don't see how it could be so so, see an eisily fixed spot on the tender but that is it. Maybe we need closeups to nit pick? ACY Tom Sometimes it just makes more sense to do the mods than not. The point is not to make your models more or less attractive. The point is to make them represent what you see in the real world. I am often put off by those who use unmodified USRA locomotives, or stand-ins, to represent engines that had a decidedly different appearance on the railroad modeled, in the reputed time frame. Of course that is the individual modeler's prerogative, and none of us has the right to tell somebody else how to have fun. I only say that such items are jarring to MY eyes and would not be satisfying to me personally. So go out and find photos of the items you want to represent, and copy what you see, as closely as you can. And if you mess up, it's only plastic; and there is such a thing as paint remover. Tom This is how I see it as well. We each have a responsibility to discern, and to achieve, what we want in our play time. Which is all this is. To the extent that we achieve our aims, we'll be happy. What makes any one of us happy might very well horrify an onlooker. Weathering, I'm sure, and bashing, does very much horrify some people. When I was newer in the hobby, I was greatly averse to weathering up my beautiful locomotives. Once I began to appreciate all it took to produce a nice Photo Phun image, and to force me to do a double take, I realized what I had to do, and I took a deep breath. The first loco I weathered was that beautiful little gem from Life Like, their Proto 2000 0-6-0 switcher. It turned out okay; I used chalk powders, real chalk, and some DullCote. Did I say 'okay'? That's all, just okay, but I appreciated that it's a necessary first step in learning. It was when I tackled my costly and new PCM Y6b that my heart was in my mouth. You would have to be kind, or charitable, to call it a good job, but really, even if I say so myself, it's not half bad. And, it looks a lot more realistic to me than the way I first cast eyes on it.
Go for it. You'll get over the trepidation really fast. Now, if you mess it up and it doesn't look good, you'll feel bad about it, but you just paint over it and start over. Learn from others.
No. I absolutely do not feel that way.I buy locomotives for one, and only one, person; me. If anybody else doesn't like what I do to my own locomotive, they are welcome to kiss my pink brake hose.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Weather the trucks and fuel tank first with a mix of black, gray, and brown acrylic tube paint, or even leftover house paint. Use a thin dry brushing technique that requires almost no paint. Have three piles, then mix the paint in another separate pile like an artists pallet so the color varies. If you dont like the effect, wash it off before it cures, or paint them back to solid black.
Once you learn proficient dry brushing strokes, its easier to get bolder.
A MILW SD9 doesn't even have lettering to worry about, IIRC
- Douglas
gmpullman I have done a few ex_PRR passenger cars into Penn-Central but they didn't look nearly as down-trodden as some of the locomotives did. Good Stuff! Ed
Your weathering looks very nice. I just wonder why the brake shoes on the passenger car are still clean PRR brown.
DrWI just wonder why the brake shoes on the passenger car are still clean PRR brown.
That's easy to explain, the Car Inspector just changed them (AAR Billing)
Seriously, When I buy an item for my model railroad, It has a purpose, and it's not an investment. The nice shiny model out of the box, looks out of place. Nothing on real railroads is clean, just various degrees of dirt. That's why I like weathering powders, rather than paint. Powders blend better than paint, and layer better. Very few actual rail cars or engines are rust buckets, fewer are new car shiny and clear coat. Weather away, my friend.
BTW: Get well Larry!
Your choice of the word "destroying" is the wrong word. it sounds like you know exactly what you are trying to achieve with your layout. Don't get hung up on weathering and patching your new locomotives.
what I would suggest is practicing on some old shells first so you build the confidence to achieve what you are wantin.
Well, I personally would be reluctand to modify a model that has significant sentimental value... like my first train set. But for something I'd purchase today, even if somewhat rare, I'd have no hesitation in making it fit my modeling theme.
Afterall, we're not talking about painting moustache on the Mona Lisa or converting a Stradivarius violin into a banjo!
Jim