Howdy, I have decided to help my club out with its track cleaning problem by building a consist of track cleaning cars with Cratex extra fine bright boy pads under them...
I plan to use 40' Hi Cube boxcars and 3x1 pads under them... I'm going to cut the frame past the trucks and replacing it with styrene... Then above the trucks I'm going to place 4 ounce weights at each end and then additional 8 ounces of weight on the pad... I want to build eight of these...
I will update you all as I proceed... please feel free to comment or give advice on this project...
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
What are you going to pull this with?
Well for the time being I was going to pull it with my T-1, my RSD-15, my brothers RSD-15, and if needed four SD40s from the club... for my birthday I'm asking for a U50 and I'm going to buy another in February when I get a job, and eventually I hope to get Big John the boxcab, running with its 4 motors and B-D-B+B-D-B wheel arrangement...
Really. All in one consist? With that many cars with abrasive blocks under them, weighted with 16 oz, each car, one lap around the layout and you'll change the code of the track. You'll have to run a vacuum car behind it all to clean up or that metal dust will get sucked up into the locos.
Mike.
My You Tube
Ok maybe 16 ounces a car is way too much... what would you suggest I weight it?
Maybe I'll weight the cars to 8 ounces but no weights on the pad itself let gravity do the trick?
Solvents generally do a better job of breaking down the dirt on the rails. On the club modular layout we use one of the CMX cars from Tony's with acetone, and it is followed by a Centerline car with a handi-wipe on the roller to collect the moist and now loose dirt. The key is to just open the vale on the CMX car enough to keep the pad moist but not sopping wet, that way no acetone drops down onto the plastic ties.
This gets run more often than I think is necessary, as soon as someone has some control issues they assume it's dirty track. The real problem is the older modules use the old method of removable fitter sections to connect the tracks together, and the joiners come loose on these and create 2-5" dead sections. Unless you have a long steam loco with both sides of the loco AND tender picking up power, you have to run multiple units so one can push the dead one over the dead spot. Newer modules use butt joints with no fitter pieces, and even when the cleaning train is running because someone things the track has gotten dirty, uou can run at creeping speed on those modules without stalling.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
My club will only use 75% alcohol and dry methods of track cleaning... solvents are considered "bad ju ju" at the club... since I'm new I find it wise not to protest...
Let me remind you all that I am going to use the finest grit bright boy material there is...
NWP SWPLet me remind you all that I am going to use the finest grit bright boy material there is...
I might suggest designing your cars to accept these sturdy cleaning pads, Steven:
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Walthers-HO-931-1100-Replacment-Track-Cleaning-Pad-p/931-1100.htm
By having a standardized pad it will be a simple matter to change them out when needed. Compared to the price of the regular "BrightBoy" pads, $5.50 isn't too bad of a cost, either.
I had bought several of them with the intention of making my own "John Allen" style pad car. After weighing all the options, I finally broke down and simply bought the car they were made to fit... problem solved.
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Walthers-Trainline-HO-1753-40-Track-Cleaning-Box-p/931-1753.htm
These take the pad I pointed to above. Several road names are available. The cars are well weighted (not quite one pound, though) and the dense pad also has springs pressing against the pad as well.
I run a cleaning train occasionally, similar to the setup Randy describes above. I use 99% Isopropyl in my CMX, followed by the Centerline, then the Walthers pad car.
Regards, Ed
Well alcohol is a solvent. I'm talking similar types of things that evaporate completely. i would NEVER use anything that leaves behind some residue to clean track. Acetone evaporates even faster than alcohol. Frankly, I never clean mine, except after painting to remove the excess paint that inevitably gets on the railhead. I then do the burnish step from the gleaming process, and that's it, done. Only metal wheels and frequent running keep it clean.
NWP SWP My club will only use 75% alcohol and dry methods of track cleaning... solvents are considered "bad ju ju" at the club... Let me remind you all that I am going to use the finest grit bright boy material there is...
My club will only use 75% alcohol and dry methods of track cleaning... solvents are considered "bad ju ju" at the club...
Steven,
FYI: Alcohol IS a solvent; it's just not as aggressive as acetone, MEK, or lacquer thinner.
I've never been a fan of abrasives for cleaning track - including Bright Boys - because it abrades the polished surface of the nickel-silver track, which then traps more dirt. (And you still have to remove the abrasive with a cleaner.) Better to use a solvent to remove the troublesome gunk.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I use the same three cars as Ed. (old Pharts think alike).
Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
Use some proven methods, in the long run you will find is saves you cash and frustration and build time that could be better spent on better things.
Even the "Gleam System" that has been hashed and rehashed here ( BTW a system of Jeffrey's whose name the Diner bears ) I found was going to be to labor intensive and I have never needed it going about things the way I have.
But to each their own.. Carry on my Lad.
Johnboy out.........
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
tstageI've never been a fan of abrasives for cleaning track - including Bright Boys - because it abrades the polished surface of the nickel-silver track, which then traps more dirt.
I can't say for certain if my rail head is scratched, gouged or otherwise pitted.
I seem to recall some sort of highly-scientific certified clinical trials on the subject some years ago including SEM photos and all and if I recall correctly, the results of the study were inconclusive.
I can attest to the fact that my layout will be 25 years old in 2018 and the Shinohara code 85 NS rail has been cleaned with several makes of "BrightBoy" type pads and, more recently, the slider pad car.
I honestly can't see any kind of degradation of the rail, nor do I suffer any kind of recurring problems with gunk accumulation. As far as the rail-cleaning train goes, I probably run it every two months or whenever I happen to give it any thought.
I will say that there are about a dozen different brands of "Abrasive track cleaning pads" out there all with varying degrees of "grit".
There is one labeled "Perfect" (gold color) that seems to be more of an ink reaser than a grit pad, Peco makes one as does Shinohara, Cratex, Roco and Micro-Engineering. Each of these are what I would call "mildly abrasive" Walthers then is a next step up in the grit size and I have another one that actually looks like a piece of lava-rock. It is pretty stiff and you can tell by the action that it is "aggressive". The original "Bright Boy" was an oxide color if I recall, and fairly aggressive, too.
There are SO many more considerations to clean track, probably 70 or 80 % related to environment and room dust (ceiling and floors!) that the occasional passing of an abrasive probably won't have much detriment in the long run.
As near as I can tell, my rail will be good for at least another 25 years
1¢ + 1¢
Best of Luck, Ed
If you are making your own pad type cars, there are options that affect car weight and pad force on the track.
One option is to weight the car fairly heavily and add down force to the pad (beyond its own weight) by adding appropriate spings between the pad and the car floor. Another approach is to have a lighter weight car and add pad downforce by adding weight to the pad or it's vertical sliders above the floor. Of course, the lightest down force option is to simply let the pad and its vertical guides be solely their own weight, with no enhanced force.
IMG_7628 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
I'm not sure that one way is better or more common than another. I built two masonite pad cars using springs for added downforce and thus weighted the cars to make up for the "lift" created on the car, the added weights ensuring proper tracking due to needed weight on the trucks.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Ok yes alcohol is a solvent BUT I am speaking of real solvents like paint thinner... most of the clubs troubles are because of no more climate control because it's not in the budget... So I'll weight the car 2 ounces an end and an additional 4 ounces on the pad... CMX units and others like that are out of the budget... I can build 8 of the Cratex EXTRA FINE rubberized abrasive cars for less... the cleaning block will be attached with hook and loop command strips...
Not trying to reinvent the wheel just the tire on said wheel...
And instead of eight cars maybe 4 would be plenty???
NWP SWPAnd instead of eight cars maybe 4 would be plenty???
Could you run four cars around twice?
Personally, I think even two cars would be plenty.
I think it was RR Mel's suggestion, that I made a metal pick-up car that I run with my cleaning train, too.
IMG_7270_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
I'd much rather have that "Ferrite crud" on these neodymium magnets than in a locomotive motor or speaker...
NWP SWP the cleaning block will be attached with hook and loop command strips...
Whats that?
Mike
mbinsewiWhats that?
A 3M brand name. Apparently, geared toward hooks and soap dishes.
https://www.command.com/3M/en_US/command/products/
To me it is just Velcro®
Have Fun! Ed
OK, thanks Ed. I just think the decades old method of the free floating set-up, as the masonite pad cleaner, was as about as simple as it gets, and could be used with the abrasive pad.
I get the spring set-up, if you think more down pressure is what you want.
So I will build two of my cars and see how they work...
NWP SWPOk yes alcohol is a solvent BUT I am speaking of real solvents like paint thinner...
While I undestand what you are saying, Steven, a solvent is any substance (usually a liquid but can be a gas) in which other materials dissolve to form a solution. Some are more agressive than others but they are all real solvents. Case in point: 99% isopropanol is better at degreasing than 75% or 71% but not as good as acetone. And lacquer thinner is one of the best at it. You just have to be extra careful with the latter so that you don't inadvertenlty apply too much and start melting your plastic rail ties.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I want to try making two cars with the the extra fine version of THIS and see how it works with no weights on the pad...
I like this idea, A little "track cleaning vacuum train" on the club layout you mentioned. Very Cool!
I sure wish my HO Module Club had this!
I'm interested to see what color the boxcars and locomotive are going to be, You mentioned a U50, do you model the Espee? I'd love to see photos of the train when you get a chance.
Do you really want to use 5 locomotives to pull 8 boxcars? Are the boxcars lightweight?
UP also had U50's as well.
ATSFGuy, if you remember I was CascadeNorthernRR... I left the forum a while back and have since done some growing up... I changed my username because the CNRR is no longer my main railroad it's now the NWP-SWP System, the full story is in my tag and biography...
And far as the cars go, I was planning to make eight bright boy cars that each weighed 16 ounces or 1 pound that's why I was going to use 5 locomotives...
It seems the general consensus is that the bright boy block will sand away the rails? If so I will build Masonite train of eight with felt on the pads and some weight on the pads as well and maybe some 75% alcohol on the felt for good measure.. Or alternatively I could use rubber erasers under cars that way it doesn't wear the rails??? Another solution could be gleaming??? I don't know I have very little experience with such things but I have studied the problem and have formulated several hypothesis on a solution I need you guys years of experience to help me narrow it down...
RR_MelRR_Mel wrote the following post 8 hours ago: I just sit back and smile at the track cleaning topics. I’ve been using a CMX car with ACT6006 to clean my rails for close to 10 years without any problems what so ever. The ACT6006 even cleans the wheels on my locomotives and rolling stock. I push the CMX with a pair of E7s and occasionally a mop up caboose at the end of a freight with a slightly weighted cloth covered slider. I change the pad on the CMX about once a year and the mop up slider when it needs changing. If the ACT6006 has an odor neither my wife or I can detect it during the cleaning process. To each his own, the CMX/ATC600 combination works great for me. Mel
AMEN........
Take Care!
Frank
Another option.
many years ago i used pink erasers. Then the ink erasers. They did a nice job. But the mess. I just realized with vaccuum cars a system with ink erasers and vacuum and a magnet car. Would be a pausible option. Custom built train would be different. The masonite cars could be run in trains to maintain the rails while the cleaning train could take care of the heavier build up.
A specific engine could be assigned to the train. One that isnt the best
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
You don;t really need the extra weight, or any special attachment to the car - the VERY simple John Allen method has worked for people for years, and without extra downforce it's less likely to get snagged on anything. Since the 'holder' is just a couple of nails, you just use the car until the pad wears down completely. I'm sure you can reuse the nails on a new pad if you have to, but if 2 nails is a make or break point then the club won't be around until the pad wears out anyway. Being small squares of masonite, the pads aren't terribly abrasive but do seem to clean the gunk off the rails - so you can build a couple and just keep them in service at all times, in regular trains. Just one per train, not a whole string of them together, so yuou get coverage over the entire layout.
I once had one, a Revell car from the late 50's/early 60's that had a pair of abrasive pads that could be raised or lowered, and I think Revell was trying to get you to buy more track with that thing, the abrasive nubs on the ends were hard like small Dremel grinding stones, not realtively soft like a rubber block abrasive. I cleaned the dirt off - along with I think a couple mils of the brass. A modern versionthey probably could build into a model of a rail grinder, it's about the equivalent.