Overmod In a previous life I built and detailed automobiles from styrene kit parts. One standard procedure back then was to use pieces of sprue/gates dissolved in liquid to make solutions with better 'body' for gap filling or overhand work; I even used thick 'mix' material as a substitute for body putty in some circumstances. Surely there is some place for these techniques in railroad work with styrene or other 'solvent-weld' polymers or copolymer systems?
In a previous life I built and detailed automobiles from styrene kit parts. One standard procedure back then was to use pieces of sprue/gates dissolved in liquid to make solutions with better 'body' for gap filling or overhand work; I even used thick 'mix' material as a substitute for body putty in some circumstances. Surely there is some place for these techniques in railroad work with styrene or other 'solvent-weld' polymers or copolymer systems?
Overmod,
I did exactly what You are speaking of with RIX bridge piers. The kit comes with four piers that have three concrete pillars.....I wanted to have a wider overpass with 3-lanes instead of two. I cut one of the piers in three sections and glued them to the three pillars sections to make thm four pillars...just enough to support the three lane overpass. To hide the seams.....I glued them together and then used shavings from sprues done with an Xacto knife layed on top of the seam and with lacquer thinner, spread over the shavings. The shavings would melt, I then would spread it over th seam with an Xacto flat chizel blade. Once dried, I would sand it down, then sand the whole pier area with sand paper to give it a rough concrete look. I learned that little trick from also building model cars.....which most all were by AMT......using Dope cement...remember that stuff. You didn't have any type of model body putty back in the 50's. I even learned how to do body work with lead on My own cars.......Memories......
You may click on pic's for a larger view.
Take Care!
Frank
ROBERT PETRICK maxman Well, I'm working with some right now. and yes, what I have is thicker. Possibly it has been around too long as the bristles on the bottle brush are shedding from the plastic holder. I dunno about the bristles; that doesn't sound good. But if you always use the same brush and keep dipping it in the bottle and brushing the joints of the styrene or ABS, then you're gonna get a lot of 'backwash', and that's gonna gum up the clear solvent. I use two bottles: one clean and one cloudy. I use the cloudy one to kinda fill in weld joints that will be sanded smooth (600 grit). Robert
maxman Well, I'm working with some right now. and yes, what I have is thicker. Possibly it has been around too long as the bristles on the bottle brush are shedding from the plastic holder.
Well, I'm working with some right now. and yes, what I have is thicker. Possibly it has been around too long as the bristles on the bottle brush are shedding from the plastic holder.
I dunno about the bristles; that doesn't sound good. But if you always use the same brush and keep dipping it in the bottle and brushing the joints of the styrene or ABS, then you're gonna get a lot of 'backwash', and that's gonna gum up the clear solvent. I use two bottles: one clean and one cloudy. I use the cloudy one to kinda fill in weld joints that will be sanded smooth (600 grit).
Robert
Maxman,
Now that makes more sense....sounds like the adhesive is contaminated with some thing else. I do the same thing that Robert does. The cloudy bottle, in My case is from paint. Sometimes I put a bead of adhesive inside of a structure that has been painted already and the solvent mixes with the paint, but will still work. That is probably why the bristles are messed up. I usually keep the old brushes and continue to use them in the cloudy bottle. When it gets too cloudy, I throw it out. I use a lot of that adhesive so none is real old. Getting it by the case, comes out to 3.00 a bottle.
LINK to SNSR Blog
zstripeI got to laugh.......Thick? It's not any thicker than Ambroid ProWeld, Squadron and a number of others......first time I heard that one!
Real men clean their track with carbon tetrachloride while chain-smoking Camel unfiltereds.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
mbinsewi You'll have that type of response in today's OMG atmosphere
Mike,
It's amazing...isn't it? According to what You hear out there....I should have been dead long ago. The Cong tried it in Vietnam in 67'......came out alive with a gift from them that I'll have forever....but I'm still kicking.
Thank You for Your accolades.....never give up.
Like Frank, I've been airbrushing for almost 40 years using lacquer thinner for most paints. My paint booth is homemade, with an exhaust fan made by placing the fan from an air hockey game in a floor-type plenum. Whether or not the motor is brushless is immaterial, as the concentration of fumes is never heavy enough to cause problems, and the fan is always turned on before painting begins. I do wear a two-stage respirator when airbrushing, as painting sessions can last several hours.Once the painting is done and the airbrush cleaned, there's no lingering odour of thinner in the air.Safe use and handling of chemicals like these, or insecticides, weed killers, lead, or asbestos, requires knowledge in proper handling procedures and a respect for the hazards, not fear based on unfounded suppositions.
Wayne
zstripeNHTX Painting with lacquer in your attic with an ordinary box fan for ventilation seems very dangerous. Given the highly flammable, even explosive nature of lacquer thinner, an arc from that fan motor would be disastrous in a concentration of vapors/fumes.
You go Frank. You'll have that type of response in today's OMG atmosphere
I use lacquer thinner also. It's a great solvent, and thinner, and has it's uses. I use it alot as a solvent while restore old garden tractors.
I also keep it around, along with MEK, acetone, xylene, turpentine, muriatic acid, and gasoline, and a couple of others I missed.
The painters we worked with on huge construction projects lived by MEK and lacquer thinner. One or the other would work on anything! I had a steady supply of them all back then, now I have to buy my own.
Love that car Frank, along with your trucks, and your scratch builds.
Mike.
My You Tube
NHTX Painting with lacquer in your attic with an ordinary box fan for ventilation seems very dangerous. Given the highly flammable, even explosive nature of lacquer thinner, an arc from that fan motor would be disastrous in a concentration of vapors/fumes.
Painting with lacquer in your attic with an ordinary box fan for ventilation seems very dangerous. Given the highly flammable, even explosive nature of lacquer thinner, an arc from that fan motor would be disastrous in a concentration of vapors/fumes.
You don't even smell the lacquer thinner when used with an air-brush......I also use lacquer thinner in My CMX track cleaning car.....(that's what they recommend to use in it)...You don't smell that either. My attic is finished, with temp control.....layout takes up half of it.
Sounds like You have been painting with a lot of rattle cans.....the propellant in those makes the paint/chemical fumes/vapors linger in the air along with over-spray. Air-brushes use air for propellant and the vapors evaporate very quickly.
The fan is 15ft.away from the paint area and it really doesn't matter...the fan has a brushless motor. Been doing this for a very long time.....I believe I know what I'm doing in My 75yrs.
maxman zstripe My whole scratch/bash bridge was glued with Plastruct Plastic Weld (orange bottle) I just don't like that stuff. I have several bottles around, unopened. Way too thick.
zstripe My whole scratch/bash bridge was glued with Plastruct Plastic Weld (orange bottle)
I just don't like that stuff. I have several bottles around, unopened. Way too thick.
Max,
I got to laugh.......Thick? It's not any thicker than Ambroid ProWeld, Squadron and a number of others......first time I heard that one!
This whole scratch built structure was built with Plastruct shapes, H- girders, I-beams, C-channels and trusses with Plastruct Plastic Weld....see any glue marks?
Click pic' for a larger view:
If You say It's too thick.....then it's ok by Me......works great for all I have used it on.
Some may find this IPS page useful; it lists the MSDS for the various Weld-On products
http://www.ipscorp.com/plumbing/weldon/weldon_spec
zstripe Ambroid ProWeld contained Methylene Chloride which will give You headaches/dizziness if used without adequate ventilation. One reason why it was removed from the market....although it did do a great job bonding plastic's. I used it for many yrs. without any ill effects.......but with all chemicals....You are not supposed to use them in any unventilated area...like being in a cardboard box. All these adhesives that are being mentioned....they do give You the ingredients on the containers with warnings and cautions for their use....it's the Law. Should You require more info on the contents, all You have to do is look at the MSDS sheet which is available to All.....Free. http://www.ehso.com/msds.php I've been in this Hobby since 1950 at 8yrs. old and haved used many glues, paints etc. and in My later yrs. painted/worked on body parts of all, lead, tin fiberglass of cars and trucks without ANY kind of ill effects at 75yrs. now........any chemical used with common sense and reading of the warnings following their use should be a habit. I believe that is part of this new world.......No One Reads....anymore! I buy Automotive General purpose Lacquer thinner in 5 gal cans @34.00 and pour it in a tall looking mason jar in the garage with a funnel and bring it in the house to use on My airbrushes. When I paint, which is upstairs in My attic. I just have a window box fan set to exhaust......don't even use a spray booth. Somethings I paint won't work/fit in a spray booth.....big waste of money, IMHO Take Care! Frank
Ambroid ProWeld contained Methylene Chloride which will give You headaches/dizziness if used without adequate ventilation. One reason why it was removed from the market....although it did do a great job bonding plastic's. I used it for many yrs. without any ill effects.......but with all chemicals....You are not supposed to use them in any unventilated area...like being in a cardboard box.
All these adhesives that are being mentioned....they do give You the ingredients on the containers with warnings and cautions for their use....it's the Law. Should You require more info on the contents, all You have to do is look at the MSDS sheet which is available to All.....Free.
http://www.ehso.com/msds.php
I've been in this Hobby since 1950 at 8yrs. old and haved used many glues, paints etc. and in My later yrs. painted/worked on body parts of all, lead, tin fiberglass of cars and trucks without ANY kind of ill effects at 75yrs. now........any chemical used with common sense and reading of the warnings following their use should be a habit. I believe that is part of this new world.......No One Reads....anymore!
I buy Automotive General purpose Lacquer thinner in 5 gal cans @34.00 and pour it in a tall looking mason jar in the garage with a funnel and bring it in the house to use on My airbrushes. When I paint, which is upstairs in My attic. I just have a window box fan set to exhaust......don't even use a spray booth. Somethings I paint won't work/fit in a spray booth.....big waste of money, IMHO
Hey Frank,
First off, decent car!
Second, the info regarding MSDSs was very useful. I followed the link and one thing led to another and I found exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.
zstripeMy whole scratch/bash bridge was glued with Plastruct Plastic Weld (orange bottle)
It's the ratio of the ingredients of the chemicals is what makes the differance on how strong or volatile it is. I still have Ambroid ProWeld and Same stuff and although they contain the same ingredients, the Ambroid works better than the other. Another is Squadron Plastic weld....works better than same stuff.
I generally stay with what works for Me. I have been using Plastruct Plastic Weld for the past 15yrs. on just about every plastic/ABS project that I build and found it to be superior to a lot of others, once You learn how to use it. It will still stick to one another, if both parts have a coating on them....they may appear to be dry, but they still will bond to one another......I then use the brush supplied and run a bead down the seam, capillary action does the rest. I also lightly sand both parts being glued and that produces a super bond that welds the parts together that You can't get apart without breaking the parts around the weld.
My whole scratch/bash bridge was glued with Plastruct Plastic Weld (orange bottle) the parts are Styrene/ABS plastic from Walthers bridge, Central Valley girders, Evergreen ETC. and it is extremely strong and can be handled, which I have done many times for measuring and placement purposes.....it was made to be lifted out.
Lightly sanding parts to be glued is a very important step to insure a welded bond, it helps reduce the surface tension of the parts you want to join....gives the solvent a head start in the weld process. Most people don't take the time to do that...resulting in a weak bond.
You can click on pic' for a larger view:
zstripeAmbroid ProWeld contained Methylene Cloride w
SameStuff also contains methylene cloride.
According to MicroMark, Same Stuff is "exactly the same as ProWeld and Tenax-7R except for the name": https://www.micromark.com/SAME-STUFF-APPLICATOR
Jumijo I don't know what Ambroid Pro Weld has in it, but I often got a pounding headache while using it.
I don't know what Ambroid Pro Weld has in it, but I often got a pounding headache while using it.
maxman Hmmmm, maybe I'll look into one of those turkey basters.
Hmmmm, maybe I'll look into one of those turkey basters.
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Related to this discussion of cements, why on this green earth can't the manufacturers indicate on the packaging of their models, what type of plastic they used, so we can use a compatable cement for repairs or modifications?
Maxman, that's why I do it outside. I have also used the turkey baster. I also like Wayne's large pipette method. I have a couple of misc. lengths of that water line around here.
I don't have any structures under construction, but when I do, I'll experiment with mixing acetone to slow down the evaporation rate. Although, acetone evaporates very quickly too. Right now, for the small detail parts I'm using while building some tank cars, etc., I'm happy with the MEK and CA.
doctorwayneI place the open Testors bottle atop the can, then dip the tube into the MEK, place my thumb tightly over the hole in the top of the fitting, and carefully lift it out of the can, placing the bottom end of the tubing into the bottle and then simply remove my thumb from the tubing to release the MEK into the jar.
mbinsewi I transfer product from gallon can to smaller containers, including bottles, (which are clearly labeled) outside, using a small funnel
Yes, that's what I do. But it takes two hands to handle the can, and another to steady the funnel. Somehow the math doesn't quite work out and I end up slopping thinner all over the basement floor.
doctorwayne I suppose that's one way to look at it. However, I payed about $20.00 for 127.8oz. of lacquer thinner, the equivalent of, obviously, 128.7 one ounce bottles of Testors. Using Ed's price of about $5.00 per bottle, it would cost $639.00 for the equivalent of that gallon from Testors, or, for a one ounce bottle of lacquer thinner, 15.6 cents. And even if you opted for the MEK, at $40.00/gallon, 31.2 cents per bottle. Incidentally, I Googled "Testors liquid cement for modellers" and got THIS. If I had to pay those prices, I'd quit the hobby immediately. Wayne
I suppose that's one way to look at it. However, I payed about $20.00 for 127.8oz. of lacquer thinner, the equivalent of, obviously, 128.7 one ounce bottles of Testors. Using Ed's price of about $5.00 per bottle, it would cost $639.00 for the equivalent of that gallon from Testors, or, for a one ounce bottle of lacquer thinner, 15.6 cents. And even if you opted for the MEK, at $40.00/gallon, 31.2 cents per bottle.
When I want to re-fill the little square Testors bottle, with the brush-in-cap, I use a piece of tubing left over from a plumbing project. It's a water supply line, with a plastic compression-type fitting on top, as shown in the photo below.I place the open Testors bottle atop the can, then dip the tube into the MEK, place my thumb tightly over the hole in the top of the fitting, and carefully lift it out of the can, placing the bottom end of the tubing into the bottle and then simply remove my thumb from the tubing to release the MEK into the jar.
The MEK, lacquer thinner, methyl hydrate, 99% alcohol, acetone, perclorethylene, Pollyscale's Easy-Lift-Off, SuperClean, contact cement and contact cement thinner, along with a lot more paint than is visible in the photo, is all kept in cupboards under the workbench in this small room. This was formerly my paint shop, which is now in my detached garage. All of these chemicals are stored in closed containers when not in use - it's no different than storing canned goods in your kitchen cupboard, and doesn't need to take up a lot of space.If you're concerned about vapours and odour in your home when transferring the solvents from can to jar, do it outdoors.
maxmanCan you recommend some sort of pump or other device to get the product out of the gallon can into smaller containers?
I can't tell you what Wayne would say, but I use MEK for other things that I need a stong solvent for, in my garage, working with lawn tractors, or whatever, and I transfer product from gallon can to smaller containers, including bottles, (which are clearly labeled) outside, using a small funnel. No problem.
doctorwayneThere's no inconvenience at all in storing a gallon can of either, and if you can't see yourself using that amount in a reasonable period of time, perhaps you could partner with other local modellers: buy a gallon,
Can you recommend some sort of pump or other device to get the product out of the gallon can into smaller containers?
I did the same, Wayne, and I agree! I could not find what the "active ingredients" were.
I've been using MEK, and I will check out mixing it with acetone, as mentioned in a previous post, and I also use a lot of CA glue.
I'm too impatient for the good old "Testors Plastic cement". And since I do a lot of brass to plastic glueing, the CA seems the best.