I used to have a Tenshodo USRA 0-8-, great yard engine. Make sure wheels are polished clean(wire wheel in a dremel at low speed works great, remove tender trucks and polish bolster pad and top of tender truck frame were it mates. And if you can, solder wire to top of each truck cross member and to the tender frame with either a screw or solder. Then take a small round jewelers file and twirl it lightly in the hole of the drawbar where the tender hooks to, polish tender pin with wire wheel in the dremel on low speed. I use jumpers to run the locomotive upside down while I polish the wheel treads with the wire wheel in the dremel. Then all bearings on engine and tender wheel sets get conduct-a-lube oil to help with power pickup till those hidden surfaces polish up with some running. It was rare for my Tenshodo to stall out. Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
I also have not had problems with my steam locomotives stalling, and I run DC. I have attributed this to my always using power routing metal frog turnouts.
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I hope it has not been all luck. I have recently acquired two brass USRA 0-8-0 switch engines, and both of them are a bit tempermental on Kato track (insulated frogs). One is Tenshodo and the other is Alco. I hope when the actual layout is built with old style Shinohara turnouts they straighten out, or I might be adding lots of pickups.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I myself only run DC, and I must keep my tongue on the correct side of my mouth as I have never thus far had to add pickups to rod driven models, even the NWSL USRA 0-6-0 did just fine. The only place it stalled was on a set of switch points that were "dead" and I didn't know it as my other engines could "bridge" the points and not stall. Fixed the points and no more issues. I can see the need for DCC as its much more sensitive to "resetting" when power drops out, if only for a split second. What I usually find on brass engines that are stuttering or stalling is oxidized pickup points. Tender truck bolster to tender frame is a good spot, the inside of the wireless draw bar and its swivel point on the back of the locomotive. And the pin on the tender that goes in that draw bar. A light twirl of a fine round jewelers file in the hole for the pin and the swivel point fixes that issue, a wire wheel in my dremel polishes the rest nice and shiny. I hardwire the truck bolsters to a screw or other soldered connection to the tender frame. If the wireless drawbar is worn out, then I get a new one from Precision Scale. I like not seeing a wire from the engine to the tender unless its for a reversing headlight. I have added pickups to the tender on one truck for that purpose and still not had any wiring to the locomotive. When I build my new logging layout, I will be using Atlas custom line turnouts with metal frogs, which I will power using the Caboose Industries ground throws that have the electrical contacts or Tortise slow motion machines, which also have aux contacts to power signals or switch frogs. Slow moving geared brass models love to find every place they can to stall, and adding pickups under the trucks of the PFM/United Climax is a real PITA. little to no clearance under there for anything without dragging the rail head when going thru turnouts. Mike the Aspie
Thanks Dr Wayne, I think the they're drooping as shown, it is a 2-8-0 the bottom clip is used to hold the wheels etc so I cannot replace it. I used shape-holding thin wires as shown, first solder them to thin copper strips, then taped the copper strips to the bottom, then clip off pickup wire to make the length right. It seems to work first, but as the wheels turn, sometimes the pickup drooping between rails and wheels, any adive will be appreaicated!
andrechapelon...it’s a lot easier to visualize how to do it when someone else has already gone through the pain of doing it. There’s an old Tom Lehrer song which captures the technique to which I refer above....
Yeah, I certainly didn't invent that method of adding pick-ups, but it's easier (and more correct, I suppose) to provide my own photos of the process than to link to those of someone else or, horrors!, use their photos.
I also hope that folks here recognise that when I offer advice or suggestions, along with photos, that I'm not implying that my way (often gleaned from others) is the only way, but simply my take on a subject.
I also, as usual, enjoyed the Tom Lehrer bit.
Wayne
The length of the wipers shouldn't make much difference, as long as they're not drooping. Longer wires should be a little easier on which to adjust the pressure against the rear face of the drivers' tires, but I generally try to get wipers on all drivers and orient them as needed so that they don't interfere with one another.I have another brass locomotive to which I'm adding wipers, and the bottom cover plate, which holds the drivers in place, includes leaf spring detail soldered to- and hanging below the coverplate. While it would be easy enough to remove them, I simply removed the coverplate and used it as a pattern to create a new coverplate from double-sided copper clad board. The original coverplate will go in the model's original box, in case the next owner wants to re-install it. If you find the wipers to be too low with the board affixed to the underside of the coverplate, this would be an easy enough alternative.
Dr. Wayne
When I tried to add wipers (pb wire) to the bottom of the loco, problem arises as the wheel turn, I simply double taped the the small board to the bottom, so the wires are pretty close to the rail. Is there any rule of thumb about the length (I think mine is too long) and height?
Thanks!
Mike, I think that the keep-alives are a great innovation, but my operations are strictly DC. There's nothing about DCC that would be of use to me, as I'm a solo operator. I also appreciate the simplicity of the wiring required for my layout. Beyond that, though, I doubt that I could fit a decoder in any of my locomotives, so it's just as well that I don't want to go that route.
I have remotored dozens of locomotives, though, both for myself and others, and also done several open frame motor upgrades with rare earth magnets. Wayne
With the advant of the "keep alive" circuits for DCC applications, the need to go hog wild on all wheel pickup is really a thing of the past. If the motor amp draw is low enough, even brass tender wheels will stay pretty clean if the loco is run often. Its when the amp draw goes thru the roof due to a failing magnet or other drive line issues do the wheels start pitting. Nice job on the power pickups btw. While I have never had to do that on a normal rod driven model, my PFM/United Shays all got full 8 wheel pickup and can motors. That made for some sweet running engines. I just got 3 Canon can motors of ebay. One will probably go in this model. Not sure yet, waiting on 3 logging engines I am trading for to show up so I can see how they run. Coming are 3 from NWSL and one from PFM. Have 2-8-8-2 mallet, 2-6-6-2t mallet, 2-8-2t and a 3 truck Climax. The smaller engines will be staying for sure, not sure on the monster logging mallet as it needs 36" min radius to run. Mike the Aspie
Wayne, thanks for the pics. The only brass engine I have is a Westside SP GS-8. I kind of figured that an eventual DCC conversion would involve additional pickups, but it’s a lot easier to visualize how to do it when someone else has already gone through the pain of doing it.
There’s an old Tom Lehrer song which captures the technique to which I refer above.
Thanks for the “research“ assistance a la:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gXlfXirQF3A
Kevin, I often forget to take photos when I'm working on a project and sorta stumble onto a solution when I run into an unexpected problem. So, many of my photos of that ilk are taken on subsequent occasions....when I remember to do so.Forums like this are a great place to share our successes and our failures, too.
Wayne,
Every time I read one of your posts it makes me regretful I did not take more pictures of the in-process parts of my projects.
Lots of great information in there. Thank you for sharing.
I have added all wheel pick up to one brass tender, but I have never attempted to pick up from the insulated sides of the drivers.
It's always enjoyable to get a brass locomotive at a bargain price, then upgrade it as needed to get a useful addition to your roster, whether it be for your layout or simply for the display case.Back when I was painting for a hobbyshop in my area, I made the acquaintance of a couple of local modellers, both of whom remain good friends some 30 years later.One had a large layout and ran trains often...so often that he was beginning to have problems with some brass steam locomotives, especially as far as power pick-up was concerned. I traced the problem to the drawbar connection between loco and tender. The hole into which the pin on the tender fitted had been worn so severely that electrical contact became intermittent, even with the torsion spring still functioning (some weren't - they'd either lost their springiness or broken off due to metal fatigue). Intially, I simply replaced the springs, but it didn't seem to me to be a very reliable way to make an electrical connection...after all, my only steamers at the time were cast metal ones, mostly MDC, along with a John English Pacific which I got, used, in the mid '50s, and they all had a wire connection between loco and tender. One end was soldered to one of the motor brushes, the other affixed with a screw to the metal tender. As long as the locos' and tenders' brass wheels were kept clean, the current flow was very reliable.However, when those brass wheels needed to be cleaned, that wire needed to be disconnected. I decided that rather than a screw-connected wire to the tender, some sort of plug-in might be as convenient as the brass locos' drawbar arrangement for separating loco and tender, but perhaps more reliable.
My rather inelegant solution was to solder part of a nickel silver rail joiner to the front of the tender, and add a wire from the appropriate motor brush, with a short piece of nickel silver rail soldered to its free end. A poor-man's plug. The solution worked well, and was added to many locomotives.
Years later, I found an inexpensive source of miniature plugs at an electronics store, and now use them on all my steam locomotives, brass or plastic. Here are the plugs...
...and installed between an Athearn Mikado and its tender...
These tenders didn't originally have power pick-ups, but I used Bachmann parts to convert them - the more functioning pick-ups, the less chance of a locomotive stalling, either on dirty track or an unpowered frog. The excess wire is simply stuffed into the tender, using tweezers.
As time passed, I decided that more could be done to achieve reliable operation (this is all DC operation, by the way...it may already be part of DCC steam locomotives, but if not, should be applicable as an add-on.)
This one, on a brass locomotive belonging to another friend, is a bit more refined, with the plugs and wire forming faux water lines between tender and loco...
I also added wheel wipers to the insulated wheels of the locomotive, using modified centering springs from Kadee #5s (they rub on the back of the drivers' tires)...
...and on the insulated wheels of the tender...
The copper-clad circuit board is cemented to the tender trucks and bottom of the locomotive's cover plate, using contact cement. Later conversions use two-sided circuit board, which can be soldered in place.For those, I substituted .020" phosphor bronze wire for the Kadee springs, and added wipers to both the insulated and non-insulated wheels of both loco and tender. This is mainly an attempt to balance the somewhat greater pressure exerted by the wires so that the wheels, particularly those of the tender, aren't forced to one side enough to cause tracking problems. This little 0-6-0 will keep running, even if all of the loco or tender wheels are off the rails...not that I normally run trains in that manner, of course...
As an added bonus, all of the locos will run without their tenders, a big plus if you need to paint the running gear or add whitewalls to the drivers. Simply clip some jumpers from you workbench power supply to the exposed plugs. It's also useful when you're lubricating the siderods and valve gear.
Yeah, I need to get decals on this baby and get in back together again.
I think I will finish my PowerHouse mikado first, then move onto this one.
Hardest part once its painted it dealing with the infernal driver springs and valve gear. Just takes a steady hand and a good set of tweezers. Mike the Aspie
Really nice Mike.
I have a United/PFM taken apart right now for painting. That will be the first brass locomotive I have taken apart and reassembled, if I do it successfully.
As many here have no idea how simple the drive is in a typical brass steamer, here is an "under the hood" shot of my engine. I wasn't happy with the stiff rubber tube between the motor and the gear box. It was transmitting motor noise to the gearbox and thru it to the track, and it was pushing the gear box around instead of just tranmitting rotational motion. I found my stash of really floppy rubber tubing and replaced it. Takes some trial and error to get the tubing to run true and not vibrate. But once its running smooth, its good untill you take it apart again. Now she is much smoother running, espically in reverse. You can also see in the pic, the new stick of super magnets from Micro Mark that replaced the old Alinco magnet that had next to no magnetizm left. Mike the Aspie
DC only. I have no desire to run DCC.
Are you planning on converting it to run on DCC? Or will it remain a DC engine?
Thank guys, Anytime I find bargain brass models, if I am able to afford to get them I do. I fix them back up and either keep them, or resale at a proffit if it doesn't fit in with my needs. Smaller engines are always in need on my little railroad. I have a PFM ATSF 2-8-0 that was a wreck and had a hidious paint job(now stripped back to bare brass), A GEM PRR H10 2-8-0 and GEM N8 caboose with antennas that are looking for new homes, Suydam Brill Gas Electric in PRR colors and a Custom Brass Budd RDC-1 that I just love the nickle plated brass look! I was going a different route for my layout, and changed back over to a logging theme. When my expensive Overland engine arrives from layaway later this month, its getting swapped for a pair of geared logging engines and a couple of brass freight cars. The SP 2-6-0 and ATSF 2-8-0 will eventually get painted for my shortline that will enterchange with the logging line. Hopefully I can find the MB Austin SP 2-8-0 in the near future, If I do then I will sell off the ATSF engine. Want to have all MB Austin SP hand me down power to somewhat keep a "theme" to the shortlines power. Mike the Aspie
Those are some great finds, Mike
I have done a few similar projects and wound up with great running locomotives that will probably never be available to the mass market.
While at a recent model railroad show here in NE Ohio I came across several vendors that had some real bargains which, unfortunately, I had to pass on simply because I don't have the time to devote to any more "new" projects, although I couldn't pass up a PRR N1s 2-10-2 that needed a new "roundhouse"!
I'll look forward to seeing your progress on these gems...
Regards, Ed
That, I would call a SCORE! The tender is worth well more than you paid. Congrats on getting a great little engine up and running. Dan
Local brass seller unloaded a bunch of project engines recently and I managed to pick up 2 pieces. Both models have thier original boxes and neither ran and were missing a few things like screws and motors. Pictured below is the first one I got running again. She is an old MB Austin SP 2-6-0 that I gave $40 for. She was in pieces, missing driver springs, valve gear apart and the motor was missing. The motors shaft used to be one with the gear box(open frame with long output shaft with worm soldered to it). This had been cut, probably preparing to install a can motor. I installed a genuine Pittman open frame motor with a fresh stack of super magnets in its frame, connected to the gear box shaft with a short piece of rubber tubing. I repared the valve gear, found some driver springs on ebay and reassembled the model. She runs well, getting quieter as the motor brushes seat in and the gear box gets run in. I suspect the model had little to no run time as there was no wear on the wheel treads. For a late 1950's import, she has excellent detail, missing only brake shoes on the locomotive frame. PO had drilled the frame and the brake shoes were included, but the holes are not tapped for the micro screws that keep the shoes on. So they are not installed yet. The model even had a lighted headlight right from the factory. The little vanderbilt tender is really interesting and sets the model off from other small steamers. She will be a hand me down engine for the shortline that interchanges with my logging line. I want to find the SP 2-8-0 that MB Austin imported during the same time frame. The second piece is a Suydam Brill gas electric nicely painted for the PRR, missing motor, spring belts and the special pulley for the motor's shaft. Willl post pics when she gets her time in the shop. Mike the Aspie