The price problem is not due to things costing more today (many do, others not so much, some even less when adjusted for inflation).
The problem is that with no LHS you can't buy just one thing like a boxcar kit or a package of couplers without paying a shipping charge.
When I mail order I spend at least $200 or else the shipping makes the prices too high.
Train shows help some, but they come around only a few timed a year. And again you have to buy a ticket to get in, so buying one thing like a car kit makes it cost more.
I don't have a solution to this problem - retailing is changing. But it does make it harder for people to try the hobby in a low cost way.
Paul
tatans Just bought a Roundhouse 3 in 1 craft kit at a train show, paid $8.00, it is a 3/26' old timer "shorty' flat car kit, it's an amazing kit with many differnt options to construct various cars, I'm very pleased as it's my first Roundhouse kit- - - just when did Roundhouse quit making model kits and is there an equivalent company today making similar kits??
Just bought a Roundhouse 3 in 1 craft kit at a train show, paid $8.00, it is a 3/26' old timer "shorty' flat car kit, it's an amazing kit with many differnt options to construct various cars, I'm very pleased as it's my first Roundhouse kit- - - just when did Roundhouse quit making model kits and is there an equivalent company today making similar kits??
I have built a number of Tichy kits. They come with a lot of underbody detail like brake components and wire for brake lines. I particularly like getting undecorated kits for special projects, like "Hides Only" box cars for the tannery and idler flats for the carfloat terminal.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Count me in as one who loves the old kits (both the affordability and assembly process) and hasn't been to a mall in a long time.
The hobby has mostly moved to the internet and I have mostly moved with it. The bulk of my buying is on forums, groups and some ebay. Shops that don't sell used trains or NOS kits have very little to offer me.
That said, I'm lucky enough to have a great old shop near by "Zientek" that is packed to the gills with NOS kits. I shop there regularly.
I don't know what will happen in the next couple decades when the last of the guys running shops that date back to the time when kits were sold finally retire but I suspect I'll still be able to find plenty of kits and used stuff at shows, online, forums, etc. Model Railroaders are hoarders and there's just so much unbuilt product out there. Eventually the guys that have it in their closets are going to retire from the hobby or depart this terrestrial plane and it will make it's way back onto the market.
I just connected with a fellow on a swap group who is getting out the hobby and getting rid of 700 cars! He put together a small batch of pieces for me that haven't been avaialble for years at a very fair price and I suspect there will be plenty more opportunities like this in the years to come.
As for new folks entering the hobby. Almost anyone in the midwest who visits a Menards durring the holiday season get's a big dose of starter trains. Plenty of $100 Bachman train sets, Lionel starters and $20 O Gauge railcars.
I may be a used/kit snob, but there's still entry level options for railroaders. Heck, the "new" Lionel (Upgraded Model Power) rolling stock MSRP's at just 20 bucks a car and probably will street for less.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
Eilif Count me in as one who loves the old kits (both the affordability and assembly process) and hasn't been to a mall in a long time. The hobby has mostly moved to the internet and I have mostly moved with it. The bulk of my buying is on forums, groups and some ebay. Shops that don't sell used trains or NOS kits have very little to offer me. That said, I'm lucky enough to have a great old shop near by "Zientek" that is packed to the gills with NOS kits. I shop there regularly. I don't know what will happen in the next couple decades when the last of the guys running shops that date back to the time when kits were sold finally retire but I suspect I'll still be able to find plenty of kits and used stuff at shows, online, forums, etc. Model Railroaders are hoarders and there's just so much unbuilt product out there. Eventually the guys that have it in their closets are going to retire from the hobby or depart this terrestrial plane and it will make it's way back onto the market. I just connected with a fellow on a swap group who is getting out the hobby and getting rid of 700 cars! He put together a small batch of pieces for me that haven't been avaialble for years at a very fair price and I suspect there will be plenty more opportunities like this in the years to come. As for new folks entering the hobby. Almost anyone in the midwest who visits a Menards durring the holiday season get's a big dose of starter trains. Plenty of $100 Bachman train sets, Lionel starters and $20 O Gauge railcars. I may be a used/kit snob, but there's still entry level options for railroaders. Heck, the "new" Lionel (Upgraded Model Power) rolling stock MSRP's at just 20 bucks a car and probably will street for less.
I'm a kit builder too, I have big stock of them yet to build, but I also buy my share of RTR as well. This hobby need not be all one thing, or all the other.
Affordable? Well buying used kits can save a lot of money if you find what you want, no question.
But comparing new prices for new merchandise with old prices for similar merchandise, my earlier statements stand, adjusted for inflation, item for item, this hobby is no more expensive than it ever was.
Everyone's personal situation is different and our personal situations change throughout our lives. That does not change the overall value of things in the larger picture.
We all have different levels of detail that satisfy our tastes, we all have different skill levels, we all have different interests, we all have different goals in the hobby.
AND, we all have different amounts of space, time and money to devote to the hobby.
Judging the choices others make, or complaining about the direction the industry has taken, will have no positive effect.
New people of all ages enter the hobby all the time, people leave the hobby all the time. I have long ago stopped concerning myself with that. Selfishly, I am only interested in what me, and the modelers I know personally, are doing in the hobby.
I have no control or effect on what others do.........I apply my thoughts and efforts on things I can control.
And Horizon saved Athearn and Roundhouse on several levels in several ways. Athearn had pricing and distribution problems, the kit line was about to loose money, the Blue Box loco line had completely been displaced by products like Proto2000. Thanks to Horizon all that great Athearn tooling, and lots of newer updated versions/products continue on in RTR form, again, still at reasonable prices based on the cost of things these days.
Sheldon
I'm a long-time fan of MDC/Roundhouse products, although never bought any of their 3-in-1 kits.
This all-metal gondola dates from the mid-'50s, and whilst taking the photo today, it reminded me that it's one of my few older cars that's not yet received free-standing grabirons and a more detailed underbody...
It came factory painted for Pennsy, but I had re-lettered it for my own EG&E, then re-did it again as a PRR car.
I bought a lot of MDC's IPD boxcars when they first became available, but sold them when I backdated my layout's era to the late '30s.
This MDC 36' reefer was painted, lettered, and re-detailed when I built it...
This MDC 36' boxcar got a re-detailed underbody, with both a steel centresill and truss rods, like the prototype car which I was trying to re-create...
...it also got a new scratchbuilt roof...
...and Hutchins ends...
...along with some new details on the sides...
...making it into a pretty-good representation of a Southern Su-class boxcar...
I have several of MDC's covered hoppers, but have upgraded all of them with new roof hatches and outlet gates, courtesy of some Bowser parts, and have replaced all of the cast-on grasb irons with metal ones, along with new sill steps...
...and several 50' single sheathed automobile boxcars...
These MoW cars were built from MDC 36' doublesheathed boxcars, and both got scratchbuilt fishbelly underframes in place of their truss rods...
...while these MDC old time passenger cars were downgraded to MoW service, too, with a few alterations...
MDC's Pullman Palace cars still fit into my late '30s layout era, and serve both the CNR...
...and the Grand Valley...
I have another four Palace cars, most of which will be shortened somewhat, and this Harriman baggage car...
I wouldn't mind getting another of the Harriman baggage cars and an RPO, too.
Wayne
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm a kit builder too, I have big stock of them yet to build, but I also buy my share of RTR as well. This hobby need not be all one thing, or all the other. Affordable? Well buying used kits can save a lot of money if you find what you want, no question. But comparing new prices for new merchandise with old prices for similar merchandise, my earlier statements stand, adjusted for inflation, item for item, this hobby is no more expensive than it ever was... ...We all have different levels of detail that satisfy our tastes, we all have different skill levels, we all have different interests, we all have different goals in the hobby. AND, we all have different amounts of space, time and money to devote to the hobby. Sheldon
But comparing new prices for new merchandise with old prices for similar merchandise, my earlier statements stand, adjusted for inflation, item for item, this hobby is no more expensive than it ever was...
...We all have different levels of detail that satisfy our tastes, we all have different skill levels, we all have different interests, we all have different goals in the hobby.
Eilif ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm a kit builder too, I have big stock of them yet to build, but I also buy my share of RTR as well. This hobby need not be all one thing, or all the other. Affordable? Well buying used kits can save a lot of money if you find what you want, no question. But comparing new prices for new merchandise with old prices for similar merchandise, my earlier statements stand, adjusted for inflation, item for item, this hobby is no more expensive than it ever was... ...We all have different levels of detail that satisfy our tastes, we all have different skill levels, we all have different interests, we all have different goals in the hobby. AND, we all have different amounts of space, time and money to devote to the hobby. Sheldon I very much agree with you, especially on these points. Kits, RTR, Kits built by someone else, etc if I can find what I like -at the low prices I want- I'm not picky. I also agree that the hobby as a whole isn't actually much more expensive. I ran some numbers recently and -adjusted for inflation- the price of middle and up quality R2R rolling stock has increased a bit, but not much and even then it's not really a fair comparison when you figure in the truely increased quality of -and labor requirements necessary to produce- things at the very high standards hobbyists require today. At the same time, the low end (base level Bachman, Roundhouse, Lionel HO) is about the same cost -adjusted for inflation- that it always was. I was reading some 60's MR this week and looking at the ads it doesn't take more than a moment to realize that railroading was not a cheap hobby back in the day. Not to say it was exorbitantly expensive but it's not like it was a bargain hobby then. All that said I'm still a cheapskate who tries to buy things for the sticker price of yesteryear, but I won't gripe about today's retail prices and I wish more power and godspeed to those who buy the stuff today that keeps the older stuff rolling into my train room. Hopefully we are all able do it in the way that suits us and I couldn't be the bottom feeder I am without the folks buying at the top end.
There is nothing wrong with being a bargain hunter, I am too.
But when I need to pay the going rate to get what I want, I simply pay it or do without.
I just moved, took down a layout in a 1000 sq foot space. My new space is about 1500 sq ft. The layout theme will be nearly identical, just rearranged for the new space.
I am interested in all aspects of the hobby, and I like modeling the big time railroading of a Class I line set in 1954. I like long trains and lots of them, the new layout will stage about 30 trains, typical train length 35 to 45 cars.
I like building kits, and I have been at this hobby for over 50 years, but 1000 freight cars is a lot of kits to build, so some are RTR.
And many date back pretty far, I have lots of old blue box, and yellow box Athearn, Athearn metal cars, Varney metal cars, silver streak wood kits, etc.
I am not one of those people who replace stuff, but I have added lots of mid range and high end RTR to the mix.
For me not every car needs to be a super detailed museum quality piece - RTR or built by me - but my skills are pretty good.
I like operation and display running, I like building scenery as well as rolling stock.
I will have signaling and CTC.
So RTR helps me achieve my total layout goals in a realistic time frame and allows me to use my model building skills were they are needed most to achieve my goals.
I have not been shopping for many kits recently, but both built and yet to build, I have a selection that includes kits of all ages and skill levels.
About the only thing in this hobby that does not interest me is onboard sound and DCC. I have used DCC a lot on the layouts of many friends, but it is just not important to my goals.
So I do lots of stuff the old ways, and lots of stuff the new ways....
Take care,
This thread has wandered a bit off topic (nothing wrong with that!). The original post was specifically in reference to the Roundhouse 3-in-1 kits.
As I said much earlier in the thread, I think the 3-in-1 kits are extremely entertaining. I have built many of them and the results are truly rewarding. As an introduction to scratch building, I think they are unparalleled.
I believe that the manufacturers today are missing an opportunity by not reintroducing kits like the 3-in-1s that really involve more than just assembling parts. They already have the basic pieces on hand. All it would take is a little creativity to provide a guideline for how to make a very personalized model out of basic parts, just like the 3-in-1 kits did. No doubt the kits would be much more costly than the old 3-in-1s were. So what? I would gladly pay $20 - $30+ for the entertainment value alone.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Back to topic of Roundhouse and their kits, did the Roundhouse 50' Hi-Cube kits ever make it back into production in a RTR form? They were very simple kits but I've bought a few over the years and found them to be a nice quick way to add somewhat more modern cars to the lineup.
dfdf1995 The hobby today is mostly aging baby-boomers including myself. Where are the young people --they're nowhere because they cannot afford the expense of entering the hobby.
The hobby today is mostly aging baby-boomers including myself. Where are the young people --they're nowhere because they cannot afford the expense of entering the hobby.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain dfdf1995 The hobby today is mostly aging baby-boomers including myself. Where are the young people --they're nowhere because they cannot afford the expense of entering the hobby. All of the young people are playing Fortnite on their iPads. Rich
All of the young people are playing Fortnite on their iPads.
Rich, you are spot on with that assessment.
EilifBack to topic of Roundhouse and their kits, did the Roundhouse 50' Hi-Cube kits ever make it back into production in a RTR form
Russell
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm a kit builder too, I have big stock of them yet to build, but I also buy my share of RTR as well. This hobby need not be all one thing, or all the other.
Yes.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I like building kits, and I have been at this hobby for over 50 years, but 1000 freight cars is a lot of kits to build, so some are RTR.
Yes. (Other than the 50 years part...)
ATLANTIC CENTRAL For me not every car needs to be a super detailed museum quality piece - RTR or built by me - but my skills are pretty good.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I like operation and display running, I like building scenery as well as rolling stock.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL So RTR helps me achieve my total layout goals in a realistic time frame and allows me to use my model building skills were they are needed most to achieve my goals.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL About the only thing in this hobby that does not interest me is onboard sound and DCC. I have used DCC a lot on the layouts of many friends, but it is just not important to my goals.
About the only place I part company with you on your post (other than specific personal choice of era and theme).
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain dfdf1995 The hobby today is mostly aging baby-boomers including myself. Where are the young people --they're nowhere because they cannot afford the expense of entering the hobby. All of the young people are playing Fortnite on their iPads. Rich Rich, you are spot on with that assessment. Sheldon
Except that MR was publishing similar "the hobby is aging and dying out" editorials 50 years ago. At one point the suspect was slot cars. Then video games. Then the next thing.
Other than the basic TYCO set running in a circle, the main part of the hobby has really always been a mature person's hobby. That's when you have the resources in space, time and money to actually do it. You get a lot of middle aged guys coming back to it at that point or getting into it because they get the toy train set for *their* kids.
But one way or the other, that person has to have an interest in trains to either pick it up or stay with it.
cv_acrExcept that MR was publishing similar "the hobby is aging and dying out" editorials 50 years ago. At one point the suspect was slot cars. Then video games. Then the next thing. Other than the basic TYCO set running in a circle, the main part of the hobby has really always been a mature person's hobby. That's when you have the resources in space, time and money to actually do it. You get a lot of middle aged guys coming back to it at that point or getting into it because they get the toy train set for *their* kids. But one way or the other, that person has to have an interest in trains to either pick it up or stay with it.
cv_acr ATLANTIC CENTRAL About the only thing in this hobby that does not interest me is onboard sound and DCC. I have used DCC a lot on the layouts of many friends, but it is just not important to my goals. About the only place I part company with you on your post (other than specific personal choice of era and theme).
Well Chris, a few more detailed thoughts on sound and DCC as seperate subjects - sound first.
I understand that a lot of people like sound, but as a person interested in a large layout with lots of trains running at once, it has drawbacks. As a confessed introvert I do not like chaos. My layout plan supports the operaton of eight trains at once......eight sound equiped locos, even with the volume down, even in a 1600 sq ft space, is chaos.
Secondly, I am a HiFi buff as one of my other hobbies. The sound quality of onboard sound in HO is poor at best to my ears, but more importantly in my view is the scale of the sound.
At three feet away from an HO model I am 270 scale feet away. I live near two important mainlines, I see trains all the time, most of the noise they make blends quickly into the background from distances equal to typical HO viewing distances.
While I am very interested in scale operations, being the engineer is not necessarily my favorite job (I favor being the dispatcher or yard master), so this "intimate" experiance of pretending to be in the cab is not a top priority for me.
I do plan to experiment with some layout based background sounds, crossing gate sounds, etc. But those can be done with much better sounding speakers.......
DCC - I have used DCC a lot, most of my friends in the hobby have DCC. I have helped design and build some of their layouts.
I also require signaling and CTC. DCC dose not make signaling or CTC any easier, and with sound out of the discussion, the added features of DCC over my Advanced Cab Control with Aristo wireless radio throttles do not justify the cost or the work for a layout of my size.
Additionally I do not like any of the ergonomics of the various DCC throttles on the market.
I already have the 140 locos I need, they are not decoder equipped.
To equip my 140 locos, and replace my 10 wireless throttles with DCC would easily cost $6,000 to possibly $10,000. The benefits would be small in my case.
I model an era where I don't need or want fancy lighting effects, I have no need of consisting or speed matching, I don't want sound, my current throttles provide great speed control using pulse width modulation just like a DCC decoder, so what would I gain?
I would gain slightly more realistic engine hostling in the engine terminal, and I would loose my built in automatic train control that prevents collisions...........for that I should spend $10,000?
I think I will stay with DC and my Advanced Cab Control, with its relay based signal system.
Please understand, I know my goals and desires are not in the mainstream on this, I understand why others like DCC.
richhotrain But that is exactly the point, Chris. If today's kids are sitting in front of their iPads playing Fortnite, they are not playing with trains. So, in the future, you are not going to get a lot of middle aged guys coming back to it because they were never into it as kids.
But that is exactly the point, Chris. If today's kids are sitting in front of their iPads playing Fortnite, they are not playing with trains. So, in the future, you are not going to get a lot of middle aged guys coming back to it because they were never into it as kids.
The only thing is, that's a wide brush you're painting with, to paint all kids that way.
And if the rise of the "maker movement" is any indication, there will ALWAYS be people that are interested unproductive frivolities, and those that are actually interesting in doing and building.
doctorwayneThis all-metal gondola dates from the mid-'50s, and whilst taking the photo today, it reminded me that it's one of my few older cars that's not yet received free-standing grabirons and a more detailed underbody...
Since I am interested in doing and building, I've updated this MDC gondola, replacing the cast-on metal grabirons and sill steps with wire parts...
...and when I get some more #79 drill bits, I'll redo the underbody details, too.
cv_acrAnd if the rise of the "maker movement" is any indication, there will ALWAYS be people that are interested unproductive frivolities, and those that are actually interesting in doing and building.
I just love it. Stuff a lot of folks just did when I was young is now called a "movement". Frankly, being called a movement really means that most people don't do this anymore.
I don't think that this means the hobby is dying, just that it is changing. RTR is becoming the norm. Not only for locomotives and cars, but also for track, structures, and scenery. DCC is more plug and play than ever. Even benchwork is available as a kit and I expect pretty soon it will be RTR as well.
And really, it's great. I use as much RTR on my under construction layout (13 1/2 x 36) as possible.
cv_acr richhotrain But that is exactly the point, Chris. If today's kids are sitting in front of their iPads playing Fortnite, they are not playing with trains. So, in the future, you are not going to get a lot of middle aged guys coming back to it because they were never into it as kids. The only thing is, that's a wide brush you're painting with, to paint all kids that way. And if the rise of the "maker movement" is any indication, there will ALWAYS be people that are interested unproductive frivolities, and those that are actually interesting in doing and building.
This is worth noting. LEGO's are more popular than ever, the maker movement is on the rise, Cosplay is blowing up, even miniature wargaming seems to be bouncing back (albeit on the fantasy/sci-fi end). Kids and young adults are building stuff. Might not be as much trains, but somehow they seem to be finding the time to get out of their phones long enough to create alot of fantastic things.
Gripes about these kids and their i-pads/phones might have SOME truth, but they're pretty broad and rub me the wrong way. Remember these memorables...
"Those kids and their MTV"
"Those kids and their Nintendos"
"Those kids and that Rock and Roll"
"Reefer MAAAADNESSSS!"
"The corrupting influence of Jazz!"
and on it goes...
There's always something for the older generation to exagerateand find fault with the younger.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL To equip my 140 locos, and replace my 10 wireless throttles with DCC would easily cost $6,000 to possibly $10,000. The benefits would be small in my case. I model an era where I don't need or want fancy lighting effects, I have no need of consisting or speed matching, I don't want sound, my current throttles provide great speed control using pulse width modulation just like a DCC decoder, so what would I gain? I would gain slightly more realistic engine hostling in the engine terminal, and I would loose my built in automatic train control that prevents collisions...........for that I should spend $10,000? I think I will stay with DC and my Advanced Cab Control, with its relay based signal system. Please understand, I know my goals and desires are not in the mainstream on this, I understand why others like DCC. Sheldon
Mel, I understand you are having fun with sound and that is great, but it simply does not interest me.
With my Advanced Cab Control system there is no way to simply substitute a DCC controller into the system.
My blocks are not all manually selected like normal cab control. More than half of my control blocks are selected automaticly by a combination of route selection and cab selection of the adjacent blocks.
And my blocks use a power overlap scheme that prevents trains for over running their assigned blocks.
Adding DCC to that mix is bound to cause trouble.
Honestly, the only way I enjoy sound is operating a single loco with no other distractions or noise - kind of the opposite of my four train capable double track mainline with four other trains working elsewhere.
As for any other features DCC offers, my control system is more than flexible enough for my needs.
IRONROOSTERFrankly, being called a movement really means that most people don't do this anymore.
Not always true. I know of a movement that everyone belongs to.
Eilif cv_acr richhotrain But that is exactly the point, Chris. If today's kids are sitting in front of their iPads playing Fortnite, they are not playing with trains. So, in the future, you are not going to get a lot of middle aged guys coming back to it because they were never into it as kids. The only thing is, that's a wide brush you're painting with, to paint all kids that way. And if the rise of the "maker movement" is any indication, there will ALWAYS be people that are interested unproductive frivolities, and those that are actually interesting in doing and building. This is worth noting. LEGO's are more popular than ever, the maker movement is on the rise, Cosplay is blowing up, even miniature wargaming seems to be bouncing back (albeit on the fantasy/sci-fi end). Kids and young adults are building stuff. Might not be as much trains, but somehow they seem to be finding the time to get out of their phones long enough to create alot of fantastic things. Gripes about these kids and their i-pads/phones might have SOME truth, but they're pretty broad and rub me the wrong way. Remember these memorables... "Those kids and their MTV" "Those kids and their Nintendos" "Those kids and their deadly marijuanna" "Those kids and that Rock and Roll" "The corrupting influence of Jazz!" and on it goes... There's always something for the older generation to find fault with the younger.
"Those kids and their deadly marijuanna"
There's always something for the older generation to find fault with the younger.
Here is what rubs me the wrong way, any hint of a liberal dribble notion that marijuanna is ok on public forum read by kids.
Actually LEGO sales are down the last two years, first time in their history.
The "Maker Movement" is for extroverts to fulfill their need for constant validation from others while they create something, us introverts can create stuff on our own. A talent once praised in this culture, we can wait for success, then be validated by others......
Young people and electronics, I'm not griping, but I don't think it's my job to save the hobby.
I gripe about the people my age (I'm 62), who are tieing up traffic talking on their cell phones while driving.
Don't worry, I don't think anyone on this forum is going to announce "hey kids, did you ever try model railroading on weed?"
My favorites of the Roundhouse "3 in 1" kits are the building kits, which featured their relatively little-known modular building components. I'm not positive but I think they were among the earliest modular building components, well before the Walthers modulars and even the now-venerable DPM modular building component systems. Sure, they were a little flimsy, but that also meant they were easy to cut up and modify, along with the assorted bits of rolling stock thrown in the boxes, to build character-filled 19th century buildings for your charming little towns, industrial buildings, and railroad facilities. For late 20th century modelers, they had a "Victoria Station" kit, with a boxcar and caboose, so you could build one of their railroad-themed restaurants for your pike. For 19th century fans who wanted something different, they had a cable car kit, with a passenger car to be laboriously converted to a narrow gauge cable car (they recommended using N scale tracks, effectively HOn30, to model the most common cable car gauge of 3'6") and a cable/powerhouse for the end of the line! They're a good introduction to kitbashing and creative model railroading.
As to "the kids," well yeah, if you read decades-old issues of MR, the death of the hobby is always a topic for discussion, even in the 1940s when then old-timers lamented the first "shake the box" kits and modelers' abandonment of cigar boxes and other found-object scrap as preferred modeling materials during the Great Depression and materials shortages of World War II! But the kids these days love the nostalgia of previous generations, which is why vinyl records and even cassette tapes are having a serious comeback. Part of how music of previous generations became so available to young people is online downloading, which became the gateway towards buying music on less ephemeral media than an MP3. Now, even those who are far from a hobby shop can order new items directly from the distributor or manufacturer, and I'm sure kids page through with the same wonder as my generation (Generation X, between the boomers and Millennials) enjoyed flipping through the Walthers catalog. Plus, they also have eBay and other resale sites which provides access to the vintage stuff. Once they catch the bug, some will make the pilgrimages to train shows and the shrinking number of brick-and-mortar hobby shops out there. And they have a bunch of grumpy old model railroaders like us posting on online forums for advice and explanations as to exactly what this strange widget from the 1950s was supposed to do!
The final factor that will influence young people getting into the hobby is the enduring prevalence of trains. My generation (those raised in the 1970s-80s) were taught that trains were going the way of the horse and buggy, only visited in museums, and the decline of railroading would result in their virtual elimination. Instead, railroad freight business boomed, Amtrak endured, and a new generation of light rail and streetcars carried young passengers the same way that their grandparents rode their predecessors. So they carry the memory of trains with them, and will pass along those memories to their kids--and, most likely, toy trains and train sets to play with when birthdays and holidays roll around. And someday, those kids might discover Dad's old Roundhouse kits that they bought off an old-fashioned early 21st century "web site" called eBay...
Jetrock!
Very positive thinking! I think you see your glass as half full.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Eilif This is worth noting. LEGO's are more popular than ever, the maker movement is on the rise, Cosplay is blowing up, even miniature wargaming seems to be bouncing back (albeit on the fantasy/sci-fi end). Kids and young adults are building stuff. Might not be as much trains, but somehow they seem to be finding the time to get out of their phones long enough to create alot of fantastic things. Gripes about these kids and their i-pads/phones might have SOME truth, but they're pretty broad and rub me the wrong way. Remember these memorables... "Those kids and their MTV" "Those kids and their Nintendos" "Those kids and their deadly marijuanna" "Those kids and that Rock and Roll" "The corrupting influence of Jazz!" and on it goes... There's always something for the older generation to find fault with the younger. Here is what rubs me the wrong way, any hint of a liberal dribble notion that marijuanna is ok on public forum read by kids. Actually LEGO sales are down the last two years, first time in their history. The "Maker Movement" is for extroverts to fulfill their need for constant validation from others while they create something, us introverts can create stuff on our own. A talent once praised in this culture, we can wait for success, then be validated by others...... Young people and electronics, I'm not griping, but I don't think it's my job to save the hobby. I gripe about the people my age (I'm 62), who are tieing up traffic talking on their cell phones while driving. Sheldon
Eilif This is worth noting. LEGO's are more popular than ever, the maker movement is on the rise, Cosplay is blowing up, even miniature wargaming seems to be bouncing back (albeit on the fantasy/sci-fi end). Kids and young adults are building stuff. Might not be as much trains, but somehow they seem to be finding the time to get out of their phones long enough to create alot of fantastic things. Gripes about these kids and their i-pads/phones might have SOME truth, but they're pretty broad and rub me the wrong way. Remember these memorables... "Those kids and their MTV" "Those kids and their Nintendos" "Those kids and their deadly marijuanna" "Those kids and that Rock and Roll" "The corrupting influence of Jazz!" and on it goes... There's always something for the older generation to find fault with the younger.
My bad. I was thinking more of overrought "Reefer Maddness" and not trying to make a political statement. I'll edit my original post accordingly.
However, as regards your sweeping statements about the "Maker Movement" you are just wrong. It's not all about public validation nor is it limited to extroverts. There are tons of kids working away in their bedrooms, basements and public library maker labs. Further, if they choose to share their work and have their "community" on instagram or some other platform that's no different than those of us that choose to gather and share our work on a MR forum, train club, etc.
Clearly I subscribe to Jetrock's brand of optimism.
Eilif ATLANTIC CENTRAL Eilif This is worth noting. LEGO's are more popular than ever, the maker movement is on the rise, Cosplay is blowing up, even miniature wargaming seems to be bouncing back (albeit on the fantasy/sci-fi end). Kids and young adults are building stuff. Might not be as much trains, but somehow they seem to be finding the time to get out of their phones long enough to create alot of fantastic things. Gripes about these kids and their i-pads/phones might have SOME truth, but they're pretty broad and rub me the wrong way. Remember these memorables... "Those kids and their MTV" "Those kids and their Nintendos" "Those kids and their deadly marijuanna" "Those kids and that Rock and Roll" "The corrupting influence of Jazz!" and on it goes... There's always something for the older generation to find fault with the younger. Here is what rubs me the wrong way, any hint of a liberal dribble notion that marijuanna is ok on public forum read by kids. Actually LEGO sales are down the last two years, first time in their history. The "Maker Movement" is for extroverts to fulfill their need for constant validation from others while they create something, us introverts can create stuff on our own. A talent once praised in this culture, we can wait for success, then be validated by others...... Young people and electronics, I'm not griping, but I don't think it's my job to save the hobby. I gripe about the people my age (I'm 62), who are tieing up traffic talking on their cell phones while driving. Sheldon My bad. I was thinking more of overrought "Reefer Maddness" and not trying to make a political statement. I'll edit my original post accordingly. However, as regards your sweeping statements about the "Maker Movement" you are just wrong. It's not all about public validation nor is it limited to extroverts. There are tons of kids working away in their bedrooms, basements and public library maker labs. Further, if they choose to share their work and have their "community" on instagram or some other platform that's no different than those of us that choose to gather and share our work on a MR forum, train club, etc. Clearly I subscribe to Jetrock's brand of optimism.
I'm a very optimistic person, but I don't spend any time worrying about the choices others make or trying to steer their behavior.
As for the "maker movement" my comments were purposely over the top. Why does it even need a name? Like making things is a new idea?
I raised six kids, and I am helping raise their kids, that's my limit for trying to steer the outcomes of human behavior.
I'm not one who thinks the hobby is dieing, I worked in this hobby when I was young, I have been involved with several well established clubs/groups. I have been an NMRA member since 1968.
But the hobby has changed a lot, and continues to change, some for the better, some not in my opinion. Back in the day I knew some of the people who revolutionized this hobby, people responsible for creating Proto2000, Spectrum, etc.
But I don't spend one minute worrying if some young person takes an interest in this hobby or not. But I am amused by the views on that topic.
And I am also amused at this modern business approach of solving every problem by committy. I work in a technical field, I design houses and renovations, I restore historic homes, I am a skilled designer in electrical, HVAC, plumbing, light frame construction, kitchen design, and more. And I have field experiance in all these trades.
Seldom has a committy been a good way to solve problems, surely not a committy of more than two or three.
As for drugs and alcohol, I also have no illusions that I can change people's behavior, but I have seen first hand the damage done to people's lives, so I will admit I'm sensitive to that issue.
But what do I know, I'm just a hick with pickup, some guns, a passel of grand kids, and bunch of little trains without brains (no DCC).
Eilif Back to topic of Roundhouse and their kits, did the Roundhouse 50' Hi-Cube kits ever make it back into production in a RTR form? They were very simple kits but I've bought a few over the years and found them to be a nice quick way to add somewhat more modern cars to the lineup.
Probably not. Even when reintroducing old kit products into RTR, Athearn seems to be trying to be prototypically accurate.
Those 50' high cube boxcars were not a model of a real 50' hi cube boxcar, IIRC. The model is too short in height to be truly high cube.
Athearn probably has other options.
Interestingly, either Athearn or MDC, or both, had kits of 40' hi cube boxcars, which may have made it into the RTR production. While not extremely popular with railroads, the models at least represented a real car.
Not that this matters. I've used the 50 footers myself. I'm just thinking in terms of what makes it into production these days.
- Douglas