Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

A little bit of Model Railroader history remembered

4364 views
18 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
SBX
  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Ipswich, UK
  • 122 posts
A little bit of Model Railroader history remembered
Posted by SBX on Sunday, October 1, 2017 4:22 PM

I have a large quantity of negatives, many b&w, which I needed to scan. I bought a Canon 9000f, which has a transparancy scanner built in. When going through a big pile from the early 1970s I came across a set that included the following two images:

For those of you too young to remember before DCC, up until 1970(ish) there were only standard potentiometer/rheostat based DC speed controllers (maybe with some pulse added). Linn Wescott revolutionised the genre with his release of a series of articles describing his TAT III (True Action Throttle). 

This was a fully transistorised controller that included, for the first time, feedback compensation, adjustable acceleration and adjustable braking. I know that I was so excited that I scoured the UK finding the required parts (individual transistors, resistors, capacitors etc. - no such thing as ICs then.

I built two of these. The second one turned up in these images. I had quite forgotten that I had the railroad, let alone the TAT III!

The railroad is N scale with Peco track and is almost 100% Atlas (all we could get in the UK at that time). I notice that I had a card routing system going. Again, I had forgotten about this.

I think that I still have the original TAT III instruction book (sold seperately and an amalgamation of the article series) somewhere.

Hands up in you remember those days.

David
Main man on the Sunset and North Eastern
from the UK

P.S. I still call my railroad the Sunset and North Eastern 37 years, at least, since the first use.

Long Haired David
A.K.A. David Pennington
main man on the Sunset and North Eastern R.R.
http://www.gmrblog.co.uk
from the UK

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Sunday, October 1, 2017 5:01 PM

David,

Yeah, those were the days, but I was an electronic rube back then. Way over my head, although I've since learned quite a bit.

But it's not just the methods of DC power supply your photo stirs nostalgia with. The Dyno labels do that for me. Crude compared to the sophistication of the average $20 label machine now, the Dyno labeler gave you a choice of background colors, but always the lettering was one font in all caps, in white.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
  • 470 posts
Posted by ctyclsscs on Sunday, October 1, 2017 5:10 PM

The labels caught my attention too. Not to mention that they eventually curled up and fell off.

Jim

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Sunday, October 1, 2017 6:20 PM

ctyclsscs
Not to mention that they eventually curled up and fell off.

Jim,

I always thought that was a feature, not a bug. It sold a lot of extra labels...

IIRC, LW was said to have taken a lot of flack for running the lengthy electronic articles re the various TAT designs and several other items. I know I was always a bit disappointed whenever an issue showed up with one of those in it, because this was one of those rare subjects I did NOT read and reread maybe half-a-dozen times before the next issue showed up when I was a teenager, but...

I also realized this was important stuff and represented part of the future of model railroading. I never would have wrote a letter to complain that this would be space better devoted to "REAL" model railroading, as others apparently did. Now we have DCC, LCC and a variety of propriaetary control systems that meet various needs -- all needing none of the blood, sweat, and tears, as well as electronic skills that David described. Amazing stuff, brought about in part by the vision of editors like LW and the patience and forebearance of readers, many just like us.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Huntsville, AR
  • 1,250 posts
Posted by oldline1 on Sunday, October 1, 2017 8:33 PM

Long Haired David,

So......tell us bit about the scanner. How well does it do 35mm slides? Do you need a computer degree to work it? Being computer challenged this is a big concern.

Thanks,

oldline1

 

SBX
  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Ipswich, UK
  • 122 posts
Posted by SBX on Monday, October 2, 2017 8:07 AM

The scanner is very good but....

I am a dedicated Mac user and only the scanner driver installs on my Mac. I had to download that as the CD just refuses togo beyond a certain point, which is before any actual installation!

The scanner driver can be seen by all the Mac utilities, including Photoshop, but it is limited. The maximum resolution for documents, photos, etc. is 600dpi and 1,200 dpi for negs/slides. Not good enough for enlarging a 35mm up to anything worth while.

Using the barebones driver you have to scan all of the neg/slide holder and then split the individual negs out!

The software installs fine onWindows 10 (I have this running under Parallels on my Mac as I do software development and my environment doesn't work on a Mac). There is a program called Canon IJ Scan Unility which gives much more control.Under the custom settings you get the following:

Photos/Magazines, etc. 600dpi

Neg/slide 4800dpi! This is much more useful for 35mm. Using this program, it scans the whole set but treats each image separately. It takes around 3 minutes for each image when set to 4800dpi so only use that when vital (I did for the second shot of the TAT III which was part of a larger image).

David

Long Haired David
A.K.A. David Pennington
main man on the Sunset and North Eastern R.R.
http://www.gmrblog.co.uk
from the UK

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, October 6, 2017 7:04 PM

I cannot tell you how badly I wish I had pictures of my earlier layouts... and my cars... and myself for that matter.

.

I'll bet I had all kinds of neat stuff on my layouts I cannot remember.

.

I did build the "Hotbox Detector" from an electronics article in Model Railroader in the early 1980s, then found out it was just a random number generator between 00 and 99. It never detected a hotbox, but we sure used it in a lot of Dungeons & Dragons games!

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, October 7, 2017 12:11 AM

SeeYou190
I cannot tell you how badly I wish I had pictures of my earlier layouts... and my cars... and myself for that matter. . I'll bet I had all kinds of neat stuff on my layouts I cannot remember....

Me too, although just taking and developing the photos was expensive enough to make layout photos few and far between.

My older Epson V100 will do photos, negatives and slides at over 12,000dpi, but I don't really have need of that given the quality of some of the photos. Stick out tongue

For posting on-line, high resolution is, in my opinion, a waste of time and technology.

Wayne

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: Netherlands
  • 226 posts
Posted by Nieuweboer on Saturday, October 7, 2017 11:07 AM
Yes, those were the days. I built two of the TAT III throttles and they served my layout for many trouble free years until in the late nineties I discovered the ROCO ASC1000 control. This is in my opinion the ultimate DC control ( no DCC for me, too many locomotives to change and as a rule single train operation) that until today function flawlessly. As I remember constructing the TAT III meant many hours of frustration. before it did what it was meant to do. It was very easy to make a wrong soldered connection that had to be traced carefully. I still find playing detective to find and solve electronic or mechanical bugs one of the attractions of model railroading, but then maybe I'm an eccentric. Hans
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: St. Paul
  • 821 posts
Posted by garya on Sunday, October 8, 2017 9:42 PM

mlehman

David,

Yeah, those were the days, but I was an electronic rube back then. Way over my head, although I've since learned quite a bit.

But it's not just the methods of DC power supply your photo stirs nostalgia with. The Dyno labels do that for me. Crude compared to the sophistication of the average $20 label machine now, the Dyno labeler gave you a choice of background colors, but always the lettering was one font in all caps, in white.

 

mlehman

 

 

But it's not just the methods of DC power supply your photo stirs nostalgia with. The Dyno labels do that for me. Crude compared to the sophistication of the average $20 label machine now, the Dyno labeler gave you a choice of background colors, but always the lettering was one font in all caps, in white.

 
 
Wait--Dymo tape isn't current?Smile
 
Someone gave me a Dymo tape machine a few years ago, and I was showing it to my daughter for yuks. Labelled a power supply with it, too.
 
 Edit:  Dymo tape, not Dyno tape.  My bad.
 

Gary

  • Member since
    November 2012
  • From: Kokomo, Indiana
  • 1,463 posts
Posted by emdmike on Monday, October 9, 2017 5:01 PM

While I do not remember those days(born in 1973), the club I belonged to for years was started in that year, had 5 mainline control cabs with homebrew transistorized throttles with momentum and braking, scratch built CTC board with track block detection system that showed which cab(by number)had which blocks turned on as well as turnout position.  Around 75% of the layout was Truescale track.  I keep hoping to find one of those old TAT throttles to give a good home to and put it back to use on my old school layout.  I prefer the old stuff!   Still have my original MRC Golden Throttlepack, looks worse for wear but still works fine.  Most of my rolling stock is older craftsman kits and my motive power is old Mantua and vintage brass imports.     Mike the Aspie

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, October 9, 2017 9:02 PM

While the DYMO labels may be a thing of the past, I've not had any of them spontaneously peel off in the more than 20 years they've been on the layout's fascia...

My first powerpack, mid-to-late '50s, and still in use on my shop's test track...

I later had an MRC Throttlepack, too, but it died some years ago, and was replaced with an MRC Controlmaster 20.  I used it with the included handheld throttle...

...but much preferred this one...

...or this one, both of which ran off of the AC output of the Controlmaster...

This one (of two, gifts from a friend) were a real joy to use, and once underway, a train could be controlled simply by working the brake lever appropriately...

The main problem with the last three shown was their output - great throttle and brake control for one or two locomotives on a short train, but all unable to handle a loco with a heavy train or multiple locos on the same train.  The MRC handheld throttle was very capable in that department, but offered absolutely no finesse - abrupt starts and touchy throttle and brake responses.

This one solved all of the problems of the others....

It will run from either DC or AC outputs, and has plenty of oomph for multiple locomotives on very heavy trains.  Great slow speed control and braking, adjustable momentum, and pulse width modulation, the same as is offered by DCC control.

That's about the limits of the technology required to run my railroad.

Wayne

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 1:45 AM

doctorwayne
While the DYMO labels may be a thing of the past, I've not had any of them spontaneously peel off in the more than 20 years they've been on the layout's fascia...

Wayne,

Thousands of former Dymo label users are now wondering what they did wrong and you did right to get them to stick reliably.

I never knew there were all these custom throttles for the CM20. Very cool and thanks for sharing.Smile

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:48 AM

This very first type of throttle I used on my Dad's 2  rail O Scale was a Marnold transformer.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:54 AM

Thanks for your kind words, Mike.

Actually, other than the MRC throttle shown, which came with the CM 20, the others are all ones that will run from any suitable power supply - the Intrakits and Maw Scale throttles use AC input. Before I bought the CM 20, I used a transformer out of an oil furnace with very good results, although naturally still constrained by the limited capabilities of the throttles themselves.

The Stapleton-built throttle, one of several models available, was built by Ken Stapleton, about 15 miles from me in St. Catharines, Ontario, so I picked mine up in-person.  For anybody still using DC, like me, these throttles are well-built and affordable, and he stands behind his products.

Here's a LINK  to a PDF on the 821A throttle, and another LINK to his website.

Wayne

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 3:12 PM

 I think MRC's "taper wound" deal caught them in the behind - in the good old days when those massive open frame motors needed a good shot of pwoer to get moving, it made a ot of sense to have the low end of the speed control make a greater change per degree of knob rotation. But enter the modern era and moch nicer motors that will run on 1V and sometimes even less, and when that output jumps in large increments at the low end, it makes the locos take off like a scared rabbit.  FOr modern locos, or at least modern motors, you need smooth control over the entire range, and that's what those other throttles offer.

                            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:25 PM

rrinker
in the good old days when those massive open frame motors needed a good shot of pwoer to get moving, it made a ot of sense to have the low end of the speed control make a greater change per degree of knob rotation.

Randy,A lot of us young bucks use "pause power"  on our  MRC "Golden Throttle pack for smoother operation..My MRC Golden Power was far better then Dad's Marnold power pack.

I used a Golden power pack in the late 70/early 80s until buying a MRC Tech II 1400 in '83...

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    November 2012
  • From: Kokomo, Indiana
  • 1,463 posts
Posted by emdmike on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:38 PM

So many of these control systems just go in the trash when the layout is torn down being seen as outdated and obsolete.  Making it hard to find one to use again.   The older MRC or Scintilla power packs can be found though.  

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:03 PM

 Unfortunately the old Scintilla Twin I remember well from when I was young was long ago tossed as it finally blew both rectifiers (good old selenium plate ones). For the longest time, only one output was bad so for the two main lines we bought a new MRC twinpower, and set the old Scintilla sideways and used the working output to run the Lionel HO bumper car up on the mountain. The AC out of it still worked too, so it powered the switches, the AC from the MRC ran the house lights. After completely cleaning out my Mom's house, it appears that all photos I have of these old layouts, plus ones I built prior to going to college, are all lost, but it was a neat progression - 4x4 HO, 4x4 HO with a 2x4 N scale set partially over it, then a 4x8 HO, and finally a 4x8 HO plus a little extra - 2 foot extension on oone end plus an extra ledge about 4" wide around the other 3 sides.

 I didn;t have a power pack with pulse power until I bought an MRC 1500 for my last N scale layout. I had collected parts to build one ot Peter Thorne's designs from Practical Electronic Projects but never finished it, even then the parts were no longer completely available from Radio Shack plus I already knew Radio Shack's potentiometers were junk (didn't stop me from later building a Jump Throttle for my Zephyr with Radio Shack parts and, as expected, 1/3 of the potentiometer rotation was dead band, nothing happened). I started that because I couldn;t afford one of thos Controlmaster XI's (I think that was the one) I would stare at and drool over every time I went to the hobby shop. The one with the twin lighted meters, pulse width and frequency adjustment, top voltage adjustment, monentum adjustment, 5 position brake lever, and built in reverse loop direction switch. I think at the time they were near or over $100. 

                                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!