Avoiding dips and bulges on trackage

[Anonymous]

Now that I am ready to resume actively building my layout, I want to avoid something that has always plagued me on past pikes: unwanted dips or bulges in the track, usually (but not always) at the joints. These never presented a serious problem when I ran mostly coal hoppers with B-B locomotives. But the 86-footers are very unforgiving - they come apart at the slightest hint of a change in track elevation.

Whenever I have tried to correct one defect, another one seemed to spring up someplace else [banghead]. If there is any way I can learn to lay track the right way from the beginning - without having to join the Layout Design SIG - I'd love to hear about it.

[IRONROOSTER]

Well I'll give you a few ideas.

I'm not sure what type of bench work you're using, but the first step is to get the sub road bed flat, use a belt sander if you have to (with a mask and dust collection system- these spray a lot of fine dust.) Check for flatness with a long straight edge preferrably metal, sand any high spots and fill in low spots (wood putty will work).

I use cork road bed and after gluing it down I go over it with a suraform plane to smooth out any bumps especially at the joints. again check for flatness and fill in low spots.

When you lay your track slip in a tie or two under each rail joiner - you'll probably have to sand them to allow for the thickness of the joiner. Again check it for flatness.

If you haven't done so, check all your couplers to make sure they are the same height.

Also, if you can build in an area where you can keep the temperature and humidity from fluctuating.

Good luck
Paul

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KenLarsen

I want to avoid something that has always plagued me on past pikes: unwanted dips or bulges in the track, usually (but not always) at the joints.
...
If there is any way I can learn to lay track the right way from the beginning - without having to join the Layout Design SIG - I'd love to hear about it.

As Paul implied, it would help if we knew what type of benchwork, roadbed, and track you are dealing with. It also depends on the environment of where you live and the layout is.

I live in a semi-arid climate, so I don't generally have problems related to humidity, but have huge temperature change problems.

I first make certain the sub-bed is level and solid. A lot of track problems are because the underlying structure can shift or settle. It is probably overkill but I use ¾” plywood with splice blocks at the joints. The thickness of the wood itself limits the grade change. Once it is solid, then sand out any minor humps or bumps.

For roadbed I’ve used various things through the years but have always gone back to good old cork. I always glue it down (with matt medium not white glue, because white glue will eventually get brittle). Once I have the cork down I sand it to be certain it is smooth and level. I’ve also had excellent results with homasote<sp?> and micor as roadbed, but homasote can expand and contract if used in an environment with large humidity changes.

Only then do I begin to lay the track. The only time I solder joints is when the flex track is on a curve. In my extreme temperature environment I need the expansion joints. I make certain the joints are not parallel to one another (if there is a joint on one side, the opposite rail is solid). When using Atlas flex track I always make certain the “slidey” rail is on the inside of the curve.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher
As Paul implied, it would help if we knew what type of benchwork, roadbed, and track you are dealing with. It also depends on the environment of where you live and the layout is.

I am using wood benchwork, with 5/8" plywood topped with 2-inch thick foam insulation for the subroadbed and cork for the primary roadbed. The "environment" is a converted 2-car garage with a ceiling - not as good as a basement, I admit, but split-foyer homes don't have full basements. The house is located in central Maryland.

[Anonymous]

I stagger everything I can. Rail joints are not in the same place as cork roadbed joints or any other joint. The use of flex rail will also give you an opportunity to stagger another joint.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KenLarsen
I am using wood benchwork, with 5/8" plywood topped with 2-inch thick foam insulation for the subroadbed and cork for the primary roadbed.

Hmmm that should be plenty of support. I've done some foam roadbed without the cork.

How are you attaching the track to the roadbed? Nails or spikes aren't really going to have anything to grip onto.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher
How are you attaching the track to the roadbed? Nails or spikes aren't really going to have anything to grip onto.

I'll probably use tacky glue - as the VERY LAST step, once I have determined that everything else is as close to "perfect" as humanly possible.

[Anonymous]

All the info above is excellent, but i found a problem that no one covered.Spiking the rail to the roadbed. I noticed that if i drove the nails in deep,the track at the joints ,dipped. So
what i try to do is just nail at the center of the track. If it neccesary to nail at the joints , dont drive the spikes to deep.
joe a

[dehusman]

2 in foam is NOT necessarily flat. Check it with an 18" to 48" straight edge. It can have 1/16 to 1/8 inch variation in thickness over a sheet. After you glue down the cork, use a surform plane to smooth the surface.

Are the kinks at track joints where there are changes in brands of track (Atlas flex and Peco switches)? If so you might have to shim one side or the other. Glue thin cardboard, balsa wood or plastic sheet under the low track.

Dave H.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joe aloia
i found a problem that no one covered.Spiking the rail to the roadbed. I noticed that if i drove the nails in deep,the track at the joints ,dipped. So
what i try to do is just nail at the center of the track. If it neccesary to nail at the joints , dont drive the spikes to deep.

Sorry should have mentioned that. [:I] Another thing you can get with driving nails in to hard is bowing of the ties. This will pull the rails toward one another and make the track gauge narrower!

I don't use nails or spikes at all (other than for rail by rail construction). I position the track using bulletin board push pins. Once I get it into position I raise is slightly and smear the glue under. Then pu***he pins in all the way. When it dries I pull the pins. I use a whole lot of pins too. The only problem with this construction method is when balasting one must becareful not to get it too wet.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman
... After you glue down the cork, use a surform plane to smooth the surface.

I'm afraid I am a bit "culturally deprived"[D)]: I never used a surform plane before. Could I walk into any Home Depot or Lowes and ask for one, and expect them to know exactly what it is?

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KenLarsen

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman
... After you glue down the cork, use a surform plane to smooth the surface.

I'm afraid I am a bit "culturally deprived"[D)]: I never used a surform plane before. Could I walk into any Home Depot or Lowes and ask for one, and expect them to know exactly what it is?

Yes, if they don't know ask somewhere else. Make sure you get the plane, surform also comes in rasps and other shapes. Also, I find the long plane about 8 inches or so is more useful than the short one at about 4 inches.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER
Yes, if they don't know ask somewhere else. Make sure you get the plane, surform also comes in rasps and other shapes. Also, I find the long plane about 8 inches or so is more useful than the short one at about 4 inches.

Excellent, that's one item I will definitely add to my Christmas "wish list"[:D]

[Anonymous]

Surform is a Stanley product. They've been around at least 30 years. A good hardware store will have Surform or some other brands equivalent. They come in sizes from block plane to longer.

[Anonymous]

For those not familiar with Surform tools, they look kinda like cheed graters.

[Anonymous]

Uhhhh... that's CHEESE graters.

[Anonymous]

Although it is common practice, nailing down the rails has always caused me issues like you describe, nevertheless how thoroughly the roadbed has been put together.

I switched to using 1,4 x 10 mm screws from Marklin (#7599), which fit perfectly to screw down track from all manufacturers I use (Atlas, Shinohara, Peco, Tillig, Roco).

Using a small power screwdriver, work is even going faster than with nails especially if you have to make fine corrections.

The biggest advantage of using screws instead of nails is the flexibility to change something on and on and that there is no damage to track.

Happy Holidays

[Anonymous]

One thing I hadn't noticed throughout this thread is what kind of track is being used. When I first started out I used sectional track and ran into the same problems being inquired about. There is no substitute for carefully laying out the curves to the radius claimed by the manufacturer. I have found that even brand name sectional track isn't always as accurate as it should be. Check each piece as it is laid to see that there are no gaps at the joints. Do NOT attempt to force the gaps closed. File or cut the longer rail to get the joint to be perfect. Check for kinks at the joint and, if needed, file some more to eliminate the kink. This problem also shows up with "flex" track, perhaps even more so. As flex track is bent to conform to the desired curves, one rail seems to grow or the other shrink. If the joint is not cut properly and is forced to comply bulges will appear that travel down the track as adjustments are attempted. If everything is adjusted and aligned properly the track should lay on the roadbed smoothly without having to be restrained to keep it there. Then is the time to secure it to the roadbed. This is in addition to all the other tips given previously.

[Anonymous]

Hi I'm now going thru the process of building bench work and laying track. I'm usinf 1/2 inch MDF board, recommended by local lumber yard, it is much firmer than plywood and less prone to bending and warping. It also accepts Atlas track nails very well. For bench work I used the L-girder recommended in MRR magazine along with their material specs. For roadbed I'm using cork attached to the MDF board with Latex caulk, much easier to take up than glue when you make a goof, and I have had two so far. Good luck. Test runs have indicated minor problems but nothing like you have mentrioned. Good luck. Don Indpls

[cterriers]

Hi guys,
Boy do you guys make me feel old school and one of the ancients. I'm still using 5/8 inch plywood topped with Homosote as sub-bed and then using cork for the roadbed. I screw the homosote to the plywood. So far I haven't had much trouble with high and low spots as I shim or shave the homosote with a coarse cutting plane to get it level and then stagger joints. If I have a real low place because of warpage, I add a support under the plywood and bring it up to a respectable level. I use a 3 foot level which I find very helpful for finding dips. I'm using the flex track and find it very easy to shim if necessary. The shims are very easy to hide with ballast.
I fight humidity even using a dehumidifier in the summer (Indiana) and so far there hasn't been any significant problems.
While this method isn't the latest, it does work. Maybe in my next life I'll try some of the latest techniques you guys are using......
Happy Holidays.....

[TurboOne]

Thanks for all the info here guys. My kids and I just put up the old 4 x 8 plywood, on two sawhorses. We temporarly nails the track to plywood, hard but works, just so the kids could have a running system. Our friend cleaned up our old engines and cars, and we have started changing couplers and trucks to update trains. After Christmas, thanks to all your wonderful imput, we will do some real benchwork, and decide on laying cork or foam roadbed. Merry Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Do you put the glue down before you ballast if so how do you how can you clean the ballast so the railroad ties can be seen. Also do you put ballast on the turnouts.

Thanks richard41