It would be great if more kits similar to the excellent Highliners F series kits were available. The modular design allows for building any (or most) F series sub-type. It would be great to have something similar for passenger cars (very do-able) and other locomotive models. On the other hand if enough demand isn't there....it wont make any sense. So i would much prefer kits to RTR but then again, this is me coming from an aircraft scale modeling background, where kits are the only way to go anyway.
garya$100 each, or $100 for all of them? I'm guessing the latter, and I'm jealous...
You're right...around $100 for all of them. Another friend and I got comparatively similar bargains on brass, again from another estate sale. Based on what I see on the Brass Trains site, I'd say prices at about one third of retail. I don't really need any more locomotives, but couldn't resist and bought one, while my friend picked up six, plus a couple of tenders. I'll be doing any minor repairs, and painting or re-painting those which we want altered, and he's given me one of the locos in exchange for doing the work. When I croak, perhaps the same stuff could be difficult even to give away.
Wayne
doctorwayne A friend picked-up several at a nearby hobbyshop , mostly Bowser and Tyco, and perhaps an MDC, too, all for somewhere around $100.00. These were unbuilt, still in original boxes, from an estate, and included a Bowser Challenger, so they're not expensive everywhere. I suspect that the market for them is shrinking, too.
A friend picked-up several at a nearby hobbyshop , mostly Bowser and Tyco, and perhaps an MDC, too, all for somewhere around $100.00. These were unbuilt, still in original boxes, from an estate, and included a Bowser Challenger, so they're not expensive everywhere. I suspect that the market for them is shrinking, too.
$100 each, or $100 for all of them? I'm guessing the latter, and I'm jealous...
I managed to find Bowser K4, E6, and Challenger kits, and a Tyco/Mantua Prairie recently. Paid more than $100.
Gary
DoughlessThat would be my main hesitation with buying an old-school loco kit, in that they may not have smooth modern drives. After all that work, running quality could be limited by inexpensive motors. About when was that 0-4-0 with the can motor manufactured?
Actually, a lot of the older kits had smooth-running drives, as long as the kit builder was willing to put them together using enough care.
Most of the Tycos that my friend bought (stole) have gearboxes, and the couple that he's built are very nice runners. The Bowser A-5 is shown, along with an available detail kit, in my 1995 catalogue, but that version has a Pittman open-frame motor, so I'd guess mine to be more recent.I built an older Bowser K-11 Pacific, but equipped it with a can motor and a NWSL gearbox, and it's a smooth runner and great puller, too...
I hope to eventually re-do it to represent a prototype from my childhood. This Tyco Mikado got the same type of can motor and gearbox, resulting in a smooth-running and powerful locomotive...
This John English Pacific, acquired used in the mid '50s, dates from the late '40s or early '50s, and was one of my first steam engines. It still has its original Pittman motor and runs very smoothly, but I'm planning to give it new drivers (better pick-up than the brass ones currently on it) and will re-detail it, too...
Another Tyco, no can motor and no gearbox, but a really good performer. The brass detail parts I added to it cost several times what I payed for the locomotive, used....
I can't recall a locomotive I've owned, steam or diesel, r-t-r or kit, that I didn't modify in some way, whether for appearance-sake or performance.
Late Mantua production had can motors and some pretty decent gearboxes in the rtr models; I'm assuming the late kits would have been improved?
Late Bowser steam kits, for a handful of models like the A-5, had can motors.
I do not know the dates or times of introduction...I was mainly a diesel fan during those late kit years, so they were "off" my radar. Sorry cannot be more helpful.
John
I just bought my latest steam engine kit for $175. It's a PFM/United Omaha 0-6-0.
Yes, it comes fully assembled. But. Here's the kit part:
Replace electric lights with acetylene (or whatever they used)
Remove generator
Remove power reverse and install Johnson bar
Replace Pittman style motor with one that doesn't stick out the back of the cab
Add lots weight. Somewhere.
OK. That's the easy stuff that comes to mind. Now we have:
Narrow the firebox to the proper width
Replace as many as possible of the metal running boards with wood--pretty sure they were wood back when the loco was built
Maybe add sound, with a speaker in the smokebox. We'll see if it fits.
See. It's a kit.
Ed
doctorwayne trainnut1250 ...I'm sure most any kit from the past is still out there in kit form if you look long enough and are willing to pay the $$$. A friend picked-up several at a nearby hobbyshop , mostly Bowser and Tyco, and perhaps an MDC, too, all for somewhere around $100.00. These were unbuilt, still in original boxes, from an estate, and included a Bowser Challenger, so they're not expensive everywhere. I suspect that the market for them is shrinking, too. I'm currently building a Bowser PRR A-5 0-4-0 for another friend, and it was a gift to me from the guy who got the bargains. It's the latest version of that kit, with a can motor, gearbox, and the full set of superdetailing parts. Wayne
trainnut1250 ...I'm sure most any kit from the past is still out there in kit form if you look long enough and are willing to pay the $$$.
I'm currently building a Bowser PRR A-5 0-4-0 for another friend, and it was a gift to me from the guy who got the bargains. It's the latest version of that kit, with a can motor, gearbox, and the full set of superdetailing parts.
That would be my main hesitation with buying an old-school loco kit, in that they may not have smooth modern drives. After all that work, running quality could be limited by inexpensive motors.
About when was that 0-4-0 with the can motor manufactured?
- Douglas
deleted
trainnut1250...I'm sure most any kit from the past is still out there in kit form if you look long enough and are willing to pay the $$$.
Funny, while I consider myself a kit builder and a scratchbuilder, I never considered building a locomotive from a kit.....Must be a generational thing (I'm 58).
Gotta agree that we are in the golden age of all things model trains and I'm sure most any kit from the past is still out there in kit form if you look long enough and are willing to pay the $$$.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Run Eight Most companies of past, if still in business, have swept us under the rug to put it, guys who like to build kits, whether rolling stock, locomotives, structurers and such...
Most companies of past, if still in business, have swept us under the rug to put it, guys who like to build kits, whether rolling stock, locomotives, structurers and such...
I suppose there may be those who complain that pay phones are going away and pay phone users are being swept under the carpet too, or VCR users or ... you get the idea. The companies are going where the demand is, pure and simple. They aren't trying to be mean.
They want to make more money in sales of R-T-R of everything...with inflated retail prices associated with...and don't give two cents as were to manufacturer, as long as it is cheap and maximum profits.
You should read what Jason Shron of Rapido has to say about that. He can school you on the reality of manufacturing RTR model trains in the present day. You can read a manufacturer's perspective here if you don't believe me:
https://shop.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,4092123,4092661#msg-4092661
If you want to object citing Kadee, here is what Jason says about them:
It's quite simple how they do it. Kadee sells thousands of couplers at a wonderful markup - we all dream of markups like that. They are able to subsidize their gorgeous freight cars with that coupler markup. (And Kadee freight cars really are gorgeous.) Same goes for Micro-Trains. That's why those two companies can do production in North America. If Rapido was selling millions of widgets for $1 each that only cost us $0.05 to make, we could use that extra profit to subsidize North American production or to bring down the prices of overseas-produced models enormously. If there is a company that can either do RTR production in North America or they can produce RTR models in China at a hugely lower price than everyone else, then there is always a real economic reason behind it, such as cross subsidization (discussed above) or selling a loss leader for the purpose of market penetration. That means "I want my model in every store so I will not make any money on the project but at the end I will be in every store." Seeing a handful of companies producing models onshore or cheaply does not mean that all of the other companies are gouging the customer or that we could really make models much cheaper if we wanted to. There are even projects Rapido has cancelled after they were fully designed because we realized that in order for them to make profit we would price ourselves out of the market. We have one freight car that would have retailed for $60 in 2013, which was way too high for a car that small. It had about a million extra parts. We had to shelve it. Maybe when other, similar freight cars get up to that price we can finally make it, because we can probably still make it for $60. -Jason
....
I don't buy any of it, it is my money, so I can protest...If you don't like it, that's OK, you are entitled to your opinion.
Your choice of course but be realistic; it's not going to change anything any more than people protesting over the lack of video tapes or pay phones or other things that are disappearing to due overwhelming economic factors.
Now if you really want kits still, believe me, there are tons of them out on the secondary market, especially at trains shows. So there should be enough to keep you busy for the rest of your natural life.
So no reason to be unhappy. Really there is enough to keep modelers of all stripes happy in the present day. It's truly the golden age of the hobby.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Scaletrains makes their Kit Classics line, and there's always Accurail.
A lot of the RTR stuff isn't RTR anyway, if you want to get the best performance out of your locos and rolling stock.
Also, with so many other forms of entertainment to contend with, having mainly RTR on the market lowers that barrier to entry for people who are either just starting in the hobby or someone who has limited amounts of time to devote to it. Kits assume to some extent that the purchaser is neither of these.
The economic reality now is that tooling and materials are far cheaper than they have ever been, and offering something separately in kit form ends with a negligible cost savings, and most production runs now aren't big enough to support a whole separate set of packaging, SKU tracking, distribution, and loss control if they can't unload either the RTR or kit models for whatever reason. There is already too much inventory plaguing everyone in the retail chain.
There's more variety now in model railroading than there ever was (meaning more of us can get what we want in terms of era, scale and detail level), and a big part of that has to do with the current manufacturers' better understanding of striking a balance between production cost and delivering what the customer wants.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
Run EightMost companies of past, if still in business, have swept us under the rug to put it, guys who like to build kits, whether rolling stock, locomotives, structurers and such... They want to make more money in sales of R-T-R of everything...
Not sure which "they" you're talking about here. Most folks who made kits are either retired or out of business. It's not a matter of anyone forcing this choice on consumers. Consumers have made the choice. New companies who offer RTR -- almost never the same as those who offered kits in the past -- are responding to consumer demand.
Run EightI don't buy any of it, it is my money, so I can protest...
Sure, but doubt anyone will notice anyone's money walking away from RTR for kit building at this point. But as RioGrande5761 noted, there's plenty of kits still out there, an issue that probably discourages people from investing in creating new kits more than anyone keeping their wallet in their pocket over RTR now.
My opinion is that RTR gives me time to build more kits.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Gerry Dykstra and John Ott have put together an imaginative scheme using 3D printing, etching, and print on demand that's worth checking out:
http://mprailway.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-new-type-of-locomotive-kit.html
They're catering to a niche market, and leveraging the investment that Mantua made decades ago in the dies for their "General" kit, but it's a very creative attempt to get around the fundamental problem: you have to sell a lot of models to make the investment worthwhile, if you're using conventional die casting technology.
Incidentally, the Brits have a much wider range of steam kits, only some of which are cast. Steam is a bigger deal for them, but they have a lot of manufacturers who make etched-brass kits, which means fewer large cast parts. But I think if there's going to be a market for steam kits in America, it's probably going to have to rely on techniques like this, at least if the market stays like it is.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
Almost forgot about the Grandt Line kits! I should've remembered considering I've built both.
I do get unbuilt kits from old stock and train shows sometimes, but even those are getting more scarce.
It is unfortunate that most of the big kit makers have disappeared or moved on. More special models are being designed at Shapeways for 3D printing though, so maybe that will become a suitable replacement eventually. It would be nice to see more.
_________________________________________________________________
Judging by how many kits have never been built, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the engine kits asked about by the OP can be found on the secondary market with a little patience.
Even though I haven't built one in many years, I was disappointed when Bowser dropped their steam kit line. It was nice to have that option. I imagine it was no longer profitable to offer them. After all, most new model railroaders are buying RTR everything, and poor vision, arthritis and the grim reaper are chasing us old kit builders.
If you're talking about the PSC HO C-16, it's been iffy for years. They make some of the parts regularly because they're widely used. Other stuff is specific to the C-16 and hasn't been made in awhile. I don't think the whole kit has been available since shortly after the original release many years ago, although I may be wrong on that.
PSC also offers some parts for its old DL-535E WP&Y Alco kits. Again, no whole kits available.
Note that both these kits and several other mentioned are narrowgauge, where lots of people still build kits, but fewer are available, that's true even for them.
ckapeGrandt Line has their GE critters
Buy the unpowered kits and either build your own drive.
I was also going to suggest that you consider using a BullAnt drive from Hollywood Foundrys, however unfortunately Geoff has temporarily shut his website down because he has to have some major surgery. He will be closed for a couple of weeks, but even when he gets back to work he has a backlog of orders and a shortage of Mashima motors so don't hold your breath:
http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/
I hope things go well for him. He is a great guy!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Grandt Line has their GE critters
Graham Line Have bought undecs from Athearn and Atlas within the past two years. That's pretty much a kit.
Have bought undecs from Athearn and Atlas within the past two years. That's pretty much a kit.
Not meaning to speak for Darth, but I suspect he means kits where you actually build the drive.........
Sheldon
Railmaster Exports
makes Sn3 steam locomotives and diesels and S standard gauge diesels.
Paul
I was looking around to see who's still in business making locomotive kits. The only ones I know of right now making full powered kits are Hobbytown and DJH (mostly European), and Tiger Valley might still be in business (I'd have to call to be sure). Model RR Warehouse and Wiseman Model Services make a few unpowered kits, although they can get pretty expensive, and I see Kaslo makes some mostly Canadian body kits. Precision Scale shows a brass steam engine kit in their catalog, but I can't seem to get an answer from them as to whether they're actually making it or not. Labelle is still making wood traction models.
I no longer see Keystone around aside from old stock, and it seems like most others have disappeared too. Bowser scrapped all of their steam engine tooling along with all the other kit brands they acquired (like Cary), so those are gone forever. Is there anyone left that I don't know about?