HOTrainmom, we're so happy to help and encourage a young man in the enjoyment and enthusiasm for a hobby that will expose him to so many aspects of the world he lives in. If you haven't done so, consider a gift subscription to Model Railroader magazine. Each month he will be exposed to new skills and problem-solving that will serve him well in later life. Happy model railroading!
Glad to hear his enthusiasm is real; and that we haven't blown you away with too many choices.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Hello all,
HOTrainmomI now know I can come out here to this forum for great answers! Because, I will no doubt have many more questions down the road!
That is a huge compliment to all on these forums!
Thank you.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Thank you, everyone! My son's love for trains started when he was a toddler. He spent HOURS playing with his wooden set. I never would have thought that he'd still love it so much, but it thrills me. This Harvey came straight from his heart, and now my husband and I are trying to figure out all these details about model trains; so we can help him keep this passion alive! We just had no idea there were SO MANY details! Haha
I appreciate all your responses. I now know I can come out here to this forum for great answers! Because, I will no doubt have many more questions down the road!
PRR8259 Real genuine Kadee couplers are the way to go, period.
Walthers Protomax II coupler is another good option since its all metal like KD's #5..In fact you can't tell the two apart and the Protomax II works equally well.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
NHTX I encourage the young man to convert now while his roster is managable because if he does go beyond his current place in the hobby and tries to "operate" with horn-hooks, the frustration might drive him to video games or maybe macrame'. I speak from experience.
There was operation way back in the 50s and I switched many freight and passenger cars at the Columbus HO club due to the layout being point to point and every train had to be switched and at home on my ISL.. That's my experience.
Like the KD the X2F had to be correctly mounted and at the proper height. I converted the first time in '68 when the club voted in the KD as the standard coupler..After getting out of the Army in '77 I used X2Fs for about two years.. I traded that small collection for N Scale in '79 and when I return to HO in '90 I used KDs.
Brakie, my experience with X2f couplers goes back to pre-1960 and as I progressed in the hobby, I knew from my tinplate days that there was something deficient in "talgo" trucks, (remember them?) As long as you didn't try reverse moves with a fair sized train, you were OK. Thus all of my Mantua, AHM and others with truck mounted couplers were rapidly converted to body mounts, but still horn-hooks. Their side-thrust issues made realistic switching tortuous in the least. I began an aggressive conversion to Kadees and have never looked back. Any car I put into service now gets 153s or 156s with 153s being first choice regardless of what it had when taken out of the box. I encourage the young man to convert now while his roster is managable because if he does go beyond his current place in the hobby and tries to "operate" with horn-hooks, the frustration might drive him to video games or maybe macrame'. I speak from experience.
The plastic horn hook couplers always were terrible. My dad began converting our equipment over to Kadee when I was a kid in the 1970's and we never looked back. Real genuine Kadee couplers are the way to go, period.
Best wishes to you and your son.
John
.
Just buy a couple packs of Kadee #148 couplers. If they work, which they will at least 80% of the time, you are done. If you need a special Kadee coupler, then go and figure it out on their very good website.
It is pretty simple. Have fun. I hope your son enjoys the hobby for a long time. It has a few frustrations, and a learning curve, but it is the greatest lifetime hobby out there.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
NittanyLionVery robust locking in both directions of travel, which was why they were so tricky to intentionally uncouple!
Actually a small flat tip jeweler's screwdriver was one of the best methods for uncoupling the X2F.It worked like today's bamboo skewer for uncoupling KDs..
While the X2F certainly served its purpose quite well I would never advocate using them since the KD is superior.
With all due respect to them - I went there on occassion when there was one in my area - Hobbytown USA is sort of a "jack of all trades" hobbyshop, with a little of everything. If you check around, you can probably find a more specifically train-oriented hobby shop in your area that will give you better service / advice.
One reason you may be seeing couplers of 'different sizes' is that some companies now provide their equipment with scale-head sized couplers. The Kadee No.5 is a bit oversized compared to real couplers, and Kadee and other companies make ones that are closer to the real size. However, they are all designed to be able to couple to each other, so shouldn't need replacing.
Also, after Kadee's patent expired a while back, a lot of companies began making their own versions of Kadee-type knuckle couplers, so often a freight car you buy will come with a coupler made by the company that made the car rather than 'actual' Kadees. Again, they should work with Kadee or other HO knuckle couplers OK. However, in my experience, the copies made of plastic tend to wear out much faster than metal-headed Kadees will.
BRAKIE NHTX Anybody who advises conversion to horn/hook or X2f couplers in today's world does not know what they are talking about! Unless they have hands on experience with X2F coupler and know they work quite well when correctly body mounted.. I fully understand most modelers experience with X2F couplers was their cheap train set truck mounted X2F coupler.
NHTX Anybody who advises conversion to horn/hook or X2f couplers in today's world does not know what they are talking about!
Unless they have hands on experience with X2F coupler and know they work quite well when correctly body mounted..
I fully understand most modelers experience with X2F couplers was their cheap train set truck mounted X2F coupler.
Yeah, it was the truck mounting that was the reverse problem. They stay very well coupled when backing up because they're practically lower shelf couplers. Very robust locking in both directions of travel, which was why they were so tricky to intentionally uncouple!
NHTXAnybody who advises conversion to horn/hook or X2f couplers in today's world does not know what they are talking about!
ATSFGuy Regarding the coupler issue, I have some Walthers Superliners form 2001/2002 and I was wondering what type of coupler to use with them
Regarding the coupler issue, I have some Walthers Superliners form 2001/2002 and I was wondering what type of coupler to use with them
They came with Bachmann EZ mate couplers. You can replace them with EZ mate II or Kadee #5 or #148.
Bachmann EZ mate II couplers are ok. I've been using them since the 1990s as well as Kadees because the price was right when I bought them. They are the ones with the spring that keeps the coupler closed. It's the original ones with the middle finger that suck because the finger gets bent and won't hold the coupler closed.
P.S. Don't expect your average hobby/arts and crafts store to have these items in stock. You have to go to a model train store or buy them online.
The guy at the store knows nothing. Here is a quick look at Kadee H.O. scale couplers. Use #5 centered medium shank couplers for most cars. #148 is the same except for the springs are built in. Use over shank if the coupler is too high as compared to the height gauge. Use under shank if the coupler is too low. This is common for Athearn Blue Box kit locomotives. GPs are high while SDs are low. Use long shanks for locomotives with snowplows.
Over: Med. #22 Long #29Center: Med #5 Long #26Under: Med #27 Long #21
To replace truck mounted couplers use #148 with #212 Talgo Truck Adaptors. You might have to trim the whisker springs a little bit to make them work better. Or else you can cut off the coupler pocket with a razor knife and glue a 0.040" piece of styrene to the body and glue a #5 coupler box onto it.
To replace Rivarossi (AHM) style truck mounted couplers use Athearn McHenry #56 for freight cars or #52 for passenger cars.
I hope this helps.
HOTrainmom, I wholeheartedly agree with all of the advice given by all of the other posts especially about Hobbytown USA. Anybody who advises conversion to horn/hook or X2f couplers in today's world does not know what they are talking about! Please try to find a better hobby shop, preferably one that specializes in trains. I want to focus on another aspect of your issue. At ten years old it is time for the young man to become comfortable using basic handtools and accomplishing simple tasks with them. His success will give him self confidence and the courage to accept greater challenges in the hobby and other aspects of his life as well. It is time for the young lad to have a couple of screwdrivers for removing and installing said screws in coupler box installation and replacement. He should also have a pinvise and some drill bits and common sized taps or, stick to self tapping screws. Add a razor saw and some files and he will be well on his way. If he loses interest but does not destroy these items, they will prove handy for a lot of household repairs so, the investment won't be wasted. Encourage the young man to develope new skills in the use of his hands and mind. His gradtitude will be eternal. Happy modeling.
Paul3The advice you got from the Hobbytown USA store employee is pretty bad. X2F "Horn hook" couplers were a plague on our hobby once upon a time. I used them as a kid back in the 1980's and they can actually cause derailments due to their nature of pushing only one way vs. being centered like a Kadee. Backing up a train with horn hooks could be an adventure.
Sorry Paul,when properly mounted the X2F worked quite well..The train set X2F couplers mounted on the trucks caused far more grief then the body mounted X2F..
The KD #5 or #148 is the all around coupler.. Athearn Blue Box locomotives requires KD #38 couplers with coupler box.
If somebody has mentioned this already I apologize for missing it. KD's coupler gauge is an invaluable tool for checking coupler height as well as the trip pins. Couplers with incorrect heights are an endless source of problems. Athearn's old BB kits were notoriously bad for this. It was many years later that I learned the reason for this was that the metal weight was often bowed and when attached to the floor of the freight car, the plastic frame would also bow. Depending on whether it bowed up or down, you would get a coupler that was either too high or too low. Athearn no long makes shake-the-box kits so this is no longer a concern. Accurail has filled that void and I don't see the problem with their kits that Athearn had.
Welcome to the forums.
You have received a lot of good advice. I'm not sure where you have found that many different types of couplers, but i know there are a few.
Personally I am using KD #148's for their ease of mounting.
I will admit that I did not read every word of advice, so this may be repetition. You do not have to convert all your couplers at once to use more of the rolling stock. It takes paying attention to which cars are which, but if you have one or two cars with the one different type of couplers on each end, you can connect a string of cars with KD's to a string with hook horns and pull them successfully. Use the two most popular types that you have, so that the most cars can be active on the layout.
One thing I did not see discussed is that there are two methods of mounting couplers. The preferred method is the coupler is mounted in a box attached right to the car body. The other common method is the coupler is mounted to the trucks (wheel assembly). I would suggest changing these last, as they take the most work. I prefer to cut off the "arm" that the coupler is mounted on and purchase coupler boxes, mount them to the car and install the new coupler in them.
Thank you for helping your son. My mother would have loved to help me, if we had had the finincial ability to do more, but such is life.
Again, welcome and don't be afraid to ask more questions, there are many folks here ready and willing to answer questions and make suggestions.
Good luck,
Richard
https://kadee.com/conv/hocc.htm
HOTrainmom,The advice you got from the Hobbytown USA store employee is pretty bad. X2F "Horn hook" couplers were a plague on our hobby once upon a time. I used them as a kid back in the 1980's and they can actually cause derailments due to their nature of pushing only one way vs. being centered like a Kadee. Backing up a train with horn hooks could be an adventure.
I would take all future advice given by such an individual with large grain of salt. He sounds like someone who is not a model railroader.
The X2F couplers will couple easily, but getting them uncoupled without the active ramp they were designed for is an adventure. Kadee uncoupling magnets don't make contact with the coupler trip pins, so there's a certain degree of forgiveness there.
I personally use Kadees, but will install (or leave installed) Kadee clones that come with things I intend to kitbash. I run short trains of free-rolling cars, so some of those clones have survived. Others have died and been replaced with real Kadees, both ends of the car. And some cars, parts of permanent cuts or unit trains, are coupled with truly ancient Kadee K (pre-magnetic) couplers. My unit train brake vans have K couplers on the hopper end and MKD-5s on the cabin end.
If you create a transition car, I would respectfully suggest that you replace a horn-hook with a Kadee, not vice-versa. That way the time spent will save time later.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I'm not sure I would call a $50 car inexpensive.
That said, the owner is 10 years old. Is he going to take care of his trains or is he going to throw them in a cardboard box at the end of the day? Is he going to enjoy doing coupler conversions or does he want mom or dad to do it?
Is this going to be a hobby that lasts a lifetime or is he going to going to college on a video electronic game scholarship? A horn hook on one end and a Kadee on the other might be the most cost efficient way to manage this as a short term solution.
This is a huge can of worms!
Unless the car(s) came with XF2s (Hook & Horn) I would not use them. Even if they did I would swap them out for Kadees.
My coupler of preference is the venerable #5. Simples, inexpensive and reliable.
I would not recommend Hobby Town USA. Try and find a hobby shop that specializes in model trains. (These are becoming harder and harder to find, unfortunately!)
Depending on where you live you might look for train shows in your area. Some of the larger shows have representatives from the various manufactureres.
A reputable vendor will also take the time to assist you in your questions. Take a sample of the cars; probably the worst of the lot, and ask for advice.
It never hurts if you purchase from the vendor that helped the most. Many vendors also have a web or eBay presence.
If you have established a relationship with them then continue to patronize them and don't be afraid to mention how much they helped you and your son.
There are also some basic tools you will need to invest in. But once purchased, a quality tool should not have to be replaced unless abused.