0-4-0T Steam Loco "A.H. Peppercorn"

[Isambard]

I'm looking for the history and manufacturer of an HO 0-4-0T steamer called the "A.H. Peppercorn", and of the prototype, assuming there was one. I recently inherited one - bearing the name and the number "2" on the tank sides, nicely detailed, brass steam dome, bell, whistle and valve, enamel maroon red and black paint scheme, balloon smoke stack, Kadee pin-actuated type couplers and a chunky motor that fills the cab.

[andrechapelon]

lner

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

I'm looking for the history and manufacturer of an HO 0-4-0T steamer called the "A.H. Peppercorn", and of the prototype, assuming there was one. I recently inherited one - bearing the name and the number "2" on the tank sides, nicely detailed, brass steam dome, bell, whistle and valve, enamel maroon red and black paint scheme, balloon smoke stack, Kadee pin-actuated type couplers and a chunky motor that fills the cab.

A.H. Peppercorn was the CME (chief mechanical officer) for the London & North Eastern Railway after the retirement of Edward Thompson in 1946. Peppercorn was noted for his Pacific designs, which essentially were refinements of the designs of Sir Nigel Gresley.

"A.H. Peppercorn" was actually an A2 class Pacific that was built in LNER's Doncaster facility in late 1947, just prior to nationalization.

Here's a link: http://www.winwaed.com/rail/LNER/locos/A/a2peppercorn.shtml

Andre

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

lner

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

I'm looking for the history and manufacturer of an HO 0-4-0T steamer called the "A.H. Peppercorn", and of the prototype, assuming there was one. I recently inherited one - bearing the name and the number "2" on the tank sides, nicely detailed, brass steam dome, bell, whistle and valve, enamel maroon red and black paint scheme, balloon smoke stack, Kadee pin-actuated type couplers and a chunky motor that fills the cab.

A.H. Peppercorn was the CME (chief mechanical officer) for the London & North Eastern Railway after the retirement of Edward Thompson in 1946. Peppercorn was noted for his Pacific designs, which essentially were refinements of the designs of Sir Nigel Gresley.

"A.H. Peppercorn" was actually an A2 class Pacific that was built in LNER's Doncaster facility in late 1947, just prior to nationalization.

Here's a link: http://www.winwaed.com/rail/LNER/locos/A/a2peppercorn.shtml

Andre

Merci for that interesting response André!
There's no doubt that my Peppercorn isn't based on the LNER's A2 class Pacific!
It will be interesting to see who produced it and why the name. I doubt that it is a one-off custom made, since it is mainly cast brass with raised lettering and number plates, rivets and other detail. Perhaps it was a limited run commemorative issue?
[:)]

[Isambard]

I've now posted a photo of the 0-4-0T A.H. Peppercorn on ModelRailroadForum,Com, as follows:

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=746

One response I've had suggests that the loco could have come from Japan in the 1970's.

[knewsom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

I've now posted a photo of the 0-4-0T A.H. Peppercorn on ModelRailroadForum,Com, as follows:

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=746

One response I've had suggests that the loco could have come from Japan in the 1970's.

Looking at the picture I think it may be a Ken Kidder locomotive. I recently got one of these in a purchase of a lot of 50's - 60's HO scale items. It took me a while to figure out what mine was because it was a convertible kit. It could be configured in one of the following configurations:
0-4-0T 0-6-0T
0-4-2T 0-6-2T
2-4-0T 2-6-0T
2-4-2T 2-6-2T

Mine is configures as a 2-6-2T. There were a couple of the 0-4-0T plantation locomotives from Ken Kidder recently, which look almost exactly like yours, but the auctions have closed.

Hope this helps,
Kevin

[knewsom]

I also found this link. Take a look at the bottom of the page. http://www.daveayers.com/Modeling/DTAM_3.htm

[CNJ831]

Yes, absolutely, this is a Ken Kidder locomotive, often referred to in their ads as a "Plantation" engine or "Mud Hen" (the latter especially in its HOn3 version). These were offered mainly in the latter half of the 1950's into the early 1960's. Your model shows signs of some additional detail parts added so it might have been customized by the owner. Although I'm familiar with the KK line of engines, I don't actually recall one of their 0-4-0T's carrying an applied sign for "A.H.Peppercorn." If you have access to a set of vintage MR's (local large library perhaps?), you could check KK's monthly ads from the period in question and see if it turns up.

CNJ831

[knewsom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Yes, absolutely, this is a Ken Kidder locomotive, often referred to in their ads as a "Plantation" engine or "Mud Hen" (the latter especially in its HOn3 version). These were offered mainly in the latter half of the 1950's into the early 1960's. Your model shows signs of some additional detail parts added so it might have been customized by the owner. Although I'm familiar with the KK line of engines, I don't actually recall one of their 0-4-0T's carrying an applied sign for "A.H.Peppercorn." If you have access to a set of vintage MR's (local large library perhaps?), you could check KK's monthly ads from the period in question and see if it turns up.

CNJ831

Do you have any idea of the value of Ken Kidder locomotives. The one that I have is the Convertible kit (without the box) configured as a 2-6-2t. I am trying to value my collection for insurance purposes, but I have not been able to find anyone selling this model on-line.

Thanks,
Kevin

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by knewsom

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Yes, absolutely, this is a Ken Kidder locomotive, often referred to in their ads as a "Plantation" engine or "Mud Hen" (the latter especially in its HOn3 version). These were offered mainly in the latter half of the 1950's into the early 1960's. Your model shows signs of some additional detail parts added so it might have been customized by the owner. Although I'm familiar with the KK line of engines, I don't actually recall one of their 0-4-0T's carrying an applied sign for "A.H.Peppercorn." If you have access to a set of vintage MR's (local large library perhaps?), you could check KK's monthly ads from the period in question and see if it turns up.

CNJ831

Do you have any idea of the value of Ken Kidder locomotives. The one that I have is the Convertible kit (without the box) configured as a 2-6-2t. I am trying to value my collection for insurance purposes, but I have not been able to find anyone selling this model on-line.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin - It depends on which of the convertible 2-6-2T's you have and to a lesser extent which wheel arrangement it was assembled (by the owner) as. Over the years it was offered in two versions. The first was the "Convertible Suburban" in 1959. This engine represented the type of small loco sometimes used in commuter service around the turn of the last century. It had a spoked boiler tube pilot on each end of the engine. It is fairly rare (it took me years to locate a complete example in A+1 condition). Sold as a screwdriver-assembly kit, a truly complete example comes with a choice of two or three smoke stacks and some other minor details in the original box.

The second version, which was far more common, was supposed to be a small logging locomotive and had a stepped pilot beam front and back. In its earliest examples I believe it was convertible just like the Suburban but is most often found in the 2-6-2T configuration. Later models had a fixed 2-6-2T wheel arrangement. These were last offered by LMB alone, perhaps as late as the 1970's (or even later).

Interestingly, the suburban was initially offered by three different jobbers at the same time. These were Ken Kidder, Gem, and LMB. When competetion was at its greatest for the Suburban, they were selling for just $9.95 . All are identical models obviously from the same source.

The Brown Book (now decidedly out of date) lists these locomotives as "2-6-2T Prairies" but the quoted values are very dated. Based on my own experience, I'd suggest figures of $150 for the Suburban and $100-$125 for the logger for insurance purposes.

CNJ831

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by knewsom

I also found this link. Take a look at the bottom of the page. http://www.daveayers.com/Modeling/DTAM_3.htm

Thank you knewsom! A great find. Dave Ayers restorations look terrific. His 0-4-0T Plantation certainly makes my A.H. Peppercorn look rather grubby and in need of some work in the Grizzly Northern's backshop before it's put to work.
[:)]

[knewsom]

CNJ831,

Thank you for the information. According to your description I must have the Convertible Suburban because I have the spoked boiler tube pilot on both ends. I am missing the smoke stack to the model and the front headlight. I have several Brass detail parts (headlights, smoke stacks, etc) that I got from my LHS. Can you let me know what the options were for the smokestack, so that I can repair it correctly.

Thanks for all of your help.
Kevin

[tatans]

As of Dec.30,2004 there is a Ken Kidder Plantation 0-4-0 for sale @ $70.00 on ebay which means it will probably sell for $700.00 because it's in the brass section.

[M636C]

Isambard

The nameplates are those from the British 4-6-2, the style of lettering is an exact replica of that on the prototype locomotive. They are probably a set of engraved plates intended for a British OO (4mm/ft) model of the pacific, a number of kits were available and Trix had a ready to run model in ths scale. They fitted on the smoke deflectors of the 4-6-2, and would be the right size as seen on your model.

Otherwise, it looks to me like a standard "plantation" 0-4-0T!

Peter

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by knewsom

CNJ831,

Thank you for the information. According to your description I must have the Convertible Suburban because I have the spoked boiler tube pilot on both ends. I am missing the smoke stack to the model and the front headlight. I have several Brass detail parts (headlights, smoke stacks, etc) that I got from my LHS. Can you let me know what the options were for the smokestack, so that I can repair it correctly.

Kevin

Kevin - Most unfortunately, neither Cal Scale nor Precision Scale illustrates their parts ads in Walthers any longer to use as a reference so all I can offer are some rather crude descriptions or comparisons with current-day models regarding your missing parts.

There were at least two smoke stacks for the Suburban. The first was a simple, tall, straight stack with fluting at the top. The second (which is on my example) was an expansion-type stack, straight at first but then opening into what looks like two pie tins glued rim to rim. The stack on Rivarossi's current Heisler is similar but the top flarings should be more compressed together.

Two alternate headlights are indicated. The first is mounted on the smokebox and looks like the one also on Rivarossi's Heisler - probably an early electric, less likely oil. The second choice was a big, boxy old oil light mounted on the locomotive's pilot deck. It looks similar to the one used on LikeLike's Old Time Tea Kettle.

I believe all these parts were available in plastic at one time from MDC/Roundhouse on a single detailing plastic tree. All were meant for MDC's narrow gauge loco's so would be appropriately-sized for the Ken Kidder engine as well.

An additional spare parts item of note that came with the original KK Suburban was a plate with brake grear mounted on it for use with the 2-4-2T wheel arrangement. The plate with four braks shoes fills the gap from the missing center driver and hides the wheel bearing notch in the frame. Clever!

CNJ831

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Isambard

The nameplates are those from the British 4-6-2, the style of lettering is an exact replica of that on the prototype locomotive. They are probably a set of engraved plates intended for a British OO (4mm/ft) model of the pacific, a number of kits were available and Trix had a ready to run model in ths scale. They fitted on the smoke deflectors of the 4-6-2, and would be the right size as seen on your model.

Otherwise, it looks to me like a standard "plantation" 0-4-0T!

Peter

I buy that explanation Peter. The original owner of the A.H. Peppercorn was a Brit aircraft design engineer. Looking at the nameplates under a magnifying glass I can spot signs of sweat soldering.