How do you get respect from family?

[olson185]

Howard Zane

...and two very ex-wives who think I'm a nutcase who will never grow 

Olson: ex-wives have to think negatively about their ex.  It helps validate how things ended up.

My daughter today is a well established shrink who still thinks my possum is not fully cooked,

Olson: As long as she doesn't keep asking you, "What do *you* think...?", be okay with her opinion of your hobby.

and my son, the architect cannot understand why I model in the mid-20th century as he thinks I should have mag-lev trains and curtain wall /glass buildings.

Olson: It's not his fault.  Since beginning in the 1920's, the whole architectural industry has been critical of the past; to the point that very, very little of anything that existed prior to the 1920's is even taught in schools of architecture anymore. The whole emphasis is on (dystopian) futuristic things.  Tell him you like the "retro-Steampunk aesthetic"...he'll understand that.

My present wife is quite supportive and my kids and grand kids are just wonderful......just not into trains nor even making an effort to understand what the hobby is about.

Question: is there something I am missing in presenting my layout and the hobby to my family.

Olson: Maybe.  Imagine if someone showed you their, for example, den that had been converted into some sort of "scrap booking nirvanna", that looked like a mini craft store.  Appreciate it without asking, "Why do you bother doing it?".  They should be the same way and you shouldn't expect any more from them. I don't get why people do crossword puzzles, but they do them.

As I approach the big 80, of course I am wondering what happens to my HO world when I depart.

Olson: You might feel better if you arrange for its disposition, now, and stipulate it in your Will.  Maybe donate some to a RR Club and arrange for the Executor to auction the rest.

This is an old and recent discussion, and I read many interesting replies and I do have sort of a plan, but with out my kids understanding how important this hobby is to me and my legacy, I'm a bit concerned . Advice would be most welcome.

Thanks,

HZ

 

"Legacy" is the positive impact (known and unknown) one has had in the lives of all the people they've met; not the things one leaves behind.  Take steps to try to give the things you value a good home; where they'll be appreciated, and don't worry if that means they go outside the family.

Also, I'm confused by the question, "How do you get respect from the family?"  There's a big difference between interest in and enthusiasm for a hobby and respect.  I'm sure they can respect you without being interested in model trains.  Can you respect your son without being enthusiastic about a new skyscraper, he likes, being built in Dubai?  See?  Totally different issues.

[PRR8259]

Oh, I actually work in a small office of about 15 design engineers, part of a 5000+ person engineering firm.  This office is mostly all licensed professionals, too (that means we are held responsible for public safety and can even be sued if we make a mistake).  These are all highway, traffic and bridge design professionals.

Since I have models shipped to my work now (where there is always someone available to sign for it), when I whip out a new brass model, or even as yesterday, a new Athearn Genesis Rio Grande 4-6-6-4, they are actually quite impressed and start asking questions about the model.

So when I start talking about steam locomotives and bridges being designed by graphical methods...and Coopers' loadings and slide rules, without the aid of cadd like we have today, they can appreciate the enormous effort that went into the design and a little bit of the complexity.  These guys never saw an articulated steam locomotive, either, until yesterday...and I got to talk about Annatole Mallet and simple versus compound steam operation.

I think they get it and appreciate the models for what they are.

John Mock

[rtstasiak]

My mother was a career railroader on the NYC, LV, and CR; my father was an engineering technician who dabbled in everything from exotic chemicals to nukes to rocket fuel; my trains on the floor or in the cellar were just par for the course. Lots of support, less participation, because they had their own interests. Similar case in married life: tolerant spouse with a mild interest in prototype railroads, some trains for kids (replaced by boats, shooting, cars), a little participation (oddball car kits from time to time), but that's how it goes. My dogs go in and out of the train room, jump up to watch, then hit the deck for a nap. Not a bad setup at all.

[PRR8259]

First I would like to say that Howard is an original and will never be forgotten by the folks who have had the pleasure to get to know him.  His ideas have been a big influence on many.  I have altered my Ebay bidding techniques to match comments he privately shared with me (and it helped).  Likewise, I changed the way in which I present models for auction photographically (and it helped).  When I want to weather steam power and not "ruin" it, I dust it with powdered graphite as he does (no gloppy chalk buildup)...I was at a modeler's home just last night to deliver a model I sold on Ebay, and I saw this wonderful narrow gauge layout he was building.  During the course of our conversation, it became apparent that he was influenced by Howard.  We talked about how Howard models water, and this gentleman took that and just does it a little bit differently, to suit his vision of Colorado--but we were unable to talk layout design and construction without talking about how Howard does it.  I'm proud to consider Howard my friend and "mentor" in this hobby.

To the larger question:  my family thinks I'm crazy and the Hollywood media does not help because if and when they present someone who builds models, it is most often done in a very negative light so as to compare us almost to nutjob loaners, incapable of getting a date, or worse even serial killers... 

Some on these forums have taken me to task for comments I made about wanting to make a profit when I sell something, as though I'm crazy for wanting to preserve my own capital at least on big ticket items.  In my case, the family stops thinking you are crazy when you can buy and flip models for actual profit, so that actually does help in the opinion department.

Take a little comfort in knowing that we are not the only ones in America facing an "identity crisis".  For example, in contemporary jazz music there is this attitude that if you sell out to make a good living, you are selling out or cheapening your "art".  So many look down on Branford Marsalis and Chris Botti as "sellouts"...there's this thing that the "real" jazz players are starving and barely getting by, and everyone who makes money is some kind of "fake musician" "sellout" who is not being true to "art" however you choose to define art.  Some of the finest trumpet guys in the world are now taking gigs for $15 pay just so they can play the kind of music they want to play.  (Roger Ingram is older and at a point in life where maybe he can do that occasionally, but that is unfortunate).

I think the American media trades in stereotypes, and that is actually much of the problem.  They get a lot of mileage out of mischaracterizing people.  Maybe that's why I watch less and less TV...

John Mock

 

 

[cedarwoodron]

My wife understands that I enjoy model railroading as an artistic hobby. I may not be a Michaelangelo, but I'll easily settle for a "that's cute" response from her.

More important is the effect my various hobby pursuits (model railroading, woodworking and just being handy with any tool in working around the house) has had on my daughter. WhIle not a train buff, my efforts did inspire her to be creative in her own arts and crafts way while growing up. That led to a business degree in marketing and obtaining substantial competencies in several Adobe programs, not to mention a job in her chosen field. It could have been anything else, such as fine scale modeling or oil painting. The point is- my hobby pursuits inspired her on her own, and that is the true legacy for which I have our wonderful hobby to thank.

I know that when I am long past, as yet unborn grandchildren of hers will be told of her father's skillful hands and love of trains- perhaps they will become similarly engaged in creative hobbies of their own and obtain the pleasure and satisfaction as I have.

More than that I cannot ask, as trains to them may well be A.I. driven autonomous creatures crossing the country at speeds far above today's, and the echo of a steam whistle or a diesel horn just a faint hint on the wind.

Cedarwoodron

 

 

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

Bayfield Transfer Railway

The other guy's hobby is always a waste of time.

My friend spend a lot of money and time building a RC plane. On it's maiden flight he flew it a round for five or ten minutes and then crashed it. All i could think is, "What a waste of time and money." lol. I will take model trains and slot cars over RC planes any day.

 

[riogrande5761]

Howard Zane

Today, of course my folks have long passed and now I have two kids and six grandkids....and two very ex-wives who think I'm a nutcase who will never grow up as I still play with toy trains. I sold two almost complete PFM Crown collections, and many other brass models to help pay for 17 years of college and grad school for both kids. My daughter today is a well established shrink who still thinks my possum is not fully cooked, and my son, the architect cannot understand why I model in the mid-20th century as he thinks I should have mag-lev trains and curtain wall /glass buildings. My present wife is quite supportive and my kids and grand kids are just wonderful......just not into trains nor even making an effort to understand what the hobby is about.

Question: is there something I am missing in presenting my layout and the hobby to my family. As I approach the big 80, of course I am wondering what happens to my HO world when I depart. This is an old and recent discussion, and I read many interesting replies and I do have sort of a plan, but with out my kids understanding how important this hobby is to me and my legacy, I'm a bit concerned . Advice would be most welcome.

Thanks,

HZ

There is no deep or magical answer to this.  People are who they are and some will never understand anothers passion for something.  My wife and I just met up with the grandmother of a kid she used to look after as a paid caregiver.  The grandmothers husband is a limo driver in his 70's and he enjoys staying active.  He related to us that he just did a job for a retired black lady police office who was a total fanatic about the pop star Prince, who died not that long ago.  The husband/limo driver drove this Prince fanatic from the Washington DC area all the way up to Princes estate where she toured it, sort of like Elvis's Graceland type of place.  This lady was a HUGE Prince fanatic, died her hair purple, purple clothes and ad interior decorating in her house, purple car - everything Prince to the n-th degree.  Now many people would look at her and think she was nuts, crazy, boarding on insanity.  

There are people fanatical about sports, Star Wars, or you name it, to the point they spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on said obsession.  Trains can be like that and many people will never understand or appreciate any of these passions - moreover, they will likely be annoyed by the passion if anything.  Nothing you can do, you'll never win their approval.  

Best most men can do is find a wife who at minimum tolerates it well and better yet, is supports it.  My first wife hated my hobby and back in the 1990's only let me spend 20 dollars on per month grudgingly.  I could afford much more but that was her limit, yet she spent lots of money traveling to Europe and bought a new car every 4 years etc.  Predictably that marriage didn't last;  my second wife is much more train friendly and even comes to train shows with me to Timonium etc.

Bottom line is you enjoy your hobby as best you can, you'll never change come peoples attitudes or feelings, and best you can do is what is within your power.  You, having been a pilot and financially well-off should be able to control that hobby to your liking and make plans for what happens to your toys after you are gone, but of course take care of all of that while you are able.  You may not get much cooperation from family or relatives however, unless perhaps one of them is incentivised by getting a some financial payout from taking care of those toys to your preferences.  But the only way to be totally sure things are done the way you like is like the old saying goes - if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

[hon30critter]

To me the situation is simple. My family and my friends respect my hobby and I respect their interests too. When I show them something like a scratch built brass critter the inevitable response is WOW! In fact, many of them are impatient for me to start my layout. I have one sister in law who doesn't comprehend the intricate details of model railroading and who has chuckled at me once or twice, but I don't try to argue with her. There is no point, and we get along just fine.

Dave

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

The other guy's hobby is always a waste of time. That's all there is to it, trains just don't grab them. And if anybody looks down on you for your hobby, tell them to kiss your pink brake hose.

[angelob6660]

One day I hope to build a railroad legacy for myself. See the railroad below.

My dad loves the Santa Fe but he's not interested in model railroading or building it but he wants to play with it when put together. He tells me he saw the Soo Line growing up in Minneapolis. His favorite hobby is gambling(if you call it a hobby I don't) not mine. I get bored and I'm not the only one either. My mom, brother and sister hate it also. One good side note though he paid attention when he was growing up in the 1970s.

 I tell my mom's family about my hobby ideas and drawing and etc. But they all have the same emotional look when I talk trains with my dad.

My mom is interested I talk about my hobby but I also realized she gets bored. When the conversation goes more than a couple of minutes. Kinda when she talks about her crocheting and sewing clubs.

My brother has a hobby called video games. I'm not a fan of video games but I'll play few games for one to three hours depending on mood.

Railroading is my passion even though I couldn't get a job with the real thing, this is my second choice. (That wasn't an insult.) I always wanted to do both.

[hardcoalcase]

A quote attributed to Mark Twain:

"When I was a teenager, I thought my father was the biggist fool that ever lived.  Now, in my thirties, I have noticed that he is a man of great wisdom, and I am amazed how much he has learned in the past fifteen years!"

Jim

[JamesNWR05]

I 100% understand and sympathize. It's especially hard for me as a 16-yr-old who relies on my parents for most of the $ that goes towards trains. It's especially hard to explain why I decide to model Thomas & Friends. To them, it's very juvinile and they don't understand why it's so important to me. I think that once I get a real layout set up and have something to show for all of my work it might get better- but the thing they don't understand is that I could be out there doing bad stuff like all the other kids and instead I'm in the garage fiddling with model trains. It's not really a constant source of tension but still present. 

[JWhite]

I'm 60 (61 in August) I have 3 sons and 7 grandchildren.  It appears that only one, 7 year old Jacob is interested in trains or my under construction layout.  Oldest son has always been a computer geek.  He designs and installs IP camera and other security systems.  It helps that he's a modeler (scifi space ships) and he's helped me with some electrical things on the layout.

Middle son followed me into the Army and is also making a career of it.  His interests are hunting and fishing. No interest in modeling but he will handle disposition of my gun collection.

Youngest works in marketing for a large satellite TV provider.  He's the sports nut in the family.

I recently had 2 of my grandson's here for a month and that's when I discovered Jacob's interest in model railroading as a hobby. He's only 7 but if his interest stays the same, he will get what the local museum won't take.

My wife is very supportive. 

As for worry about what others think, I simply don't.  I spent my working years as an Army Infantryman and then as a police officer, so if anyone wants to think I'm a child because I "play with trains" let them.  I just don't care.

The only respect in the model railroading aspect of my life that I care about is maybe someday earning the respect of my fellow model railroaders.

I don't think anyone in my family or any of my professional contacts from my two careers think any less of me because I am a model railroader. 

[IRONROOSTER]

Well, my middle son all of a sudden at 42 last year decided to get into trains.  He has filled his living room (not married obviously) with 3 rail O gauge.  He and I now go to train shows together.  My oldest and youngest sons aren't into trains, but accept that I am.  I have got my grandson interested in Thomas and Lionels, we'll see where that goes. My wife is tolerant, probably because the trains have never come first - either in time or money.

As for respect.  Well I long ago stopped worrying over what others think of me. 

Paul

[ROBERT PETRICK]

Howard Zane

My complete family looks at me and Sandy my wife as Ma and Pa Kettle or dirt poor hill-billies since we play mountain music on fiddle, banjo and guitar. 

When my family has a reunion, you just know there's a Walmart somewhere that is empty.

Jeff Foxworthy

[emdmike]

Even my parents were not that supportive of my trains, espically once I was in mt teens.  They could never understand why I was obsessed with trains and not sports, cars and girls.  I had quite the collection of PFM brass Shays that I ran at the local HO club layout and a nice Lionel layout with Dept 56 buildings at home.  In my late teens I had a small garden railway in the neighbor's garden as my mother would not allow it in hers.  They ostrisized me thru my early adult life for being a train nut.  Wasn't till I was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder in my late 30's that things started to settle down, apparently that diagnosis made it more digestable to them that I was the odd ball(to them)that I was.  My wife supports my hobby, she knows where the money is being spent and what I am doing(not drinking, chasing other ladies or gambling).  She even goes to some of the larger gatherings for my gauge 1 live steam/G scale live steam ups as there are other spouses there to visit with.   She enjoys the social aspect that I do not, and I enjoy "playing" trains with others.  I long ago "got over" the fact that some will not understand the obsession with trains, just as I do not understand thier obsession with sports or whatever thier interests are.  I do my thing and I am happy, nuff said!    Howard, you have had an awsome lifetime in the hobby, espically on the brass side of things.  I always wanted to come to the show you used to host out on the east coast.  Several of my models came from there, just thru friends that picked them up for me.  There isnt much you can do beyond tying more computer control of your layout that will interest the younger generation.   They are either interested or could care less and will remain glued to thier tablet/smartphone ect.      Mike

[fender777]

Who gives a **** what others think. Have fun' Most people in this country anymore are sick to begin with' they spend more time staring at their smart phone than talking to their family.

[BRAKIE]

Howard,The few stiff necks that was in my family wouldn't understand the simple joy there is in having a hobby simply because they was sooo caught up in their money,money and more money world and now they are all long time dead..

My kids,grandkids,sisters,brother in laws,nieces,nephews fully accepts my hobby as part of me and they are comfortable with that. My oldest grandson and one brother in law is in the hobby.My youngest grandson could care less.

I am who I am and I need nobody's approval or respect for my hobby..

 

[Darth Santa Fe]

Just tell your grandkids your railroad is the original version of Minecraft's Creation Mode!  You're building your own world, adding details, and fighting off spiders and creepers to keep it clean and perfect.

Being 27, I can't say I've thought much about my railroad's legacy and what will happen to it all.  Most of my friends and family don't have any interest in model railroading themselves, so I interact with them about other things and find other ways to enjoy my time with them.  I'll talk about the trains and show them the railroad if they bring it up and have any interest in what I'm doing, but I don't typically bring it up myself.  Repowering a Tyco diesel with a Hobbytown chassis may be a point of excitement for me, but it's unlikely that anyone else is going to share that feeling.  That's what groups and forums like this are for!

[doctorwayne]

Respect?  I don't get no respect...it's tough, I'm tellin' ya, tough!  No respect whatsoever!

If my family respects me, it certainly wouldn't be for the hobby that I allowed to keep us apart.  Maybe there's some there, as I've made some efforts, but not much to be done about it now.

I have a handful of close friends who understand my passion for the hobby, and I think that they respect me for the things I do for them....hobby-related, of course, and it's mutual.
As for other acquaintances, I respect and/or admire their skills, but they don't need that from me anymore than I need it from them.

While the grandkids have occasional interest in the trains, it's a fleeting thing, and I think that my obsession with model railroading is difficult for others to understand...there are times when even I don't understand it.  At least, when I'm gone, there'll be no squabbling over who gets what, as no one is interested enough to care...perhaps that consideration will create a bit of post mortem respect.  

Howard Zane

They do love my Corvette!

There ya go, Howard, you've just answered your own question:  there's simply no accounting for some people's tastes.  

Wayne

[Howard Zane]

Many thanks for the fine comments. Perhaps the answer is as many suggested, they just are not into model trains. And that is fine. I do recognize that I am a dinosaur and that is fine also. Things, taste, and interests change drastically from generation to generation. At the Timonium show,it has been over ten years since we have seen teenagers come to the show sans parent or accompanying adult.

I do respect my kid's and grandkid's interests and I have certainly helped them with their careers. Perhaps they do understand and respect my interest in model trains, just not showing it. Still, you would think an almost 3000 sq. ft. model rairoad would capture some batting eye lashes..............then again they have no use for my other hobbies, like playing old time music. My complete family looks at me and Sandy my wife as Ma and Pa Kettle or dirt poor hill-billies since we play mountain music on fiddle, banjo and guitar. Again, it must be the changing times!

They do love my Corvette!

HZ

[Anonymous]

I am fortunate to live in a country where model railroading is a socially well received hobby, although you can always run into folks belittling grown-ups playing with trains. There are quite a few celebrities, including top politicians, who "confessed" their addiction in public.

The wonderful Miniatur Wunderland show in Hamburg also helped to promote the hobby to a broader public.

Having said that, I failed to pass on the bug to my son. While my wife likes my hobby (but does not share it), my son for a long time thought his dad is completely cuckoo. That changed a few years ago, when he picked up painting war hammer figures and building dioramas for them on a semi-professional level. Now he really appreciates my work, which makes me happy.

[7j43k]

tstage

How do I get respect from family?  You earn it like everyone else.

 

 

I remember saying that to my father.  He didn't like hearing it.

 

Ed

[the old train man]

Howard,let them read your forum entry,that should help

[tstage]

How do I get respect from family?  You earn it like everyone else.

And just because they may not share your interests (like you may not share theirs), they may secretly respect or admire you for what you do do and enjoy.

Tom

[Drumguy]

Howard:

You have long since cemented your legacy where it counts: amongst other modelers, and the elite ones at that. I lost my Dad 18 months ago. He bought me my first train set when I was 12. He never had much interest, but helped me when needed. He was an avid golfer, tried to get me involved, but golf was never my thing. We had different interests, and when I took up the hobby at 47, he was all smiles as I showed and explained my first layout attempt. Likewise, I listened a hundred times about his frustration at hole whatever. Point is, common interests don't make a family. Dad and I both walked this easy but fine line between respect and, for lack of a better term, indifference to each other's interests.

[Autonerd]

Hi Howard -- 

"Question: is there something I am missing in presenting my layout and the hobby to my family."

Nope. They just aren't interested, and that's okay. My wife is passionate about horses; I enjoy them but don't share her passion, and that's OK. Same with me and my model trains. (Though the amount of space the boxes take up does irk her...)

Bottom line, the hobby is for you to enjoy. If you want other people to enjoy it with you, you will be forever disappointed -- unless you join a club, where you'll find plenty of like-minded individuals. As for other people -- why do you need their approval? Who cares if they think you're a bit dotty because you're into model trains? I belong to a train club, and we're all a bit dotty. Model trains are only a small part of that. :)

"I am wondering what happens to my HO world when I depart."

A legitimate concern. One of our club members, who is in his early 80s, has designated pieces of his equipment to go to different club members when he's gone. Another member passed away and willed his collection the club; we kept some equipment, members bought others, and still others were sold to benefit the club. Perhaps you can make arrangements with a local hobby shop or model train club to either purchase your collection when you are gone -- that way your family doesn't get gypped -- or to sell the equipment on consignment with a set percentage going to your family. That way you know it won't get trashed, and the collection can help your family just as it did when the kids needed to go to college.

Hope some of this helps.

Aaron

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

    My mother worked for an agency which worked with railroads so we always lived in railroad towns. She was very suportive and bought me stuff all of the time. My sister thought my electric trains were cool but she had no interest in playing with them herself. She had one boyfriend in high school who was into the hobby. She tried to get her husband into it but it wasn’t really his thing.
    Because of the way my railroad is presented, visitors all like it and think it‘s cool. I never force anyone to look at it. I never say, “Hey check this out.” If they look at it it’s because they were drawn into it themselves. They don’t see it as someone playing with trains nor do they see me as a train geek. They see the miniature scenes and enjoy checking out the miniature world I created. They love the tiny people and buildings and don’t really pay much attention to the trains because they are just one part of the miniature world. They see it as 3D art instead of a train set. They see the model part more than the railroad part. Most of my friends are artistic and into arts and crafts or other hobbies so they understand. I just have to keep the crazy ones from playing Addams Family with it.
    Of course my son loved it because he was a mini me. He loved everything I did. My girlfriend likes it but she wants all of the doors and gates to open when she pushes them with her finger. I always play with her more than I play with myself and she always comes first. She knows the value of it all too so when I‘m gone she gets to sell it and spend the money on whatever she wants.

[7j43k]

maxman

 

 

Howard Zane

but with out my kids understanding how important this hobby is to me and my legacy, I'm a bit concerned

 

 

Your kids and grandkids are your legacy, not your railroad.

 

 

They are PART of your legacy.  Not ALL of it.

Shall we speak about reputation?  Good works?  Artistic creations?

 

 

 

Ed