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Advice for complete beginner

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Posted by Autonerd on Saturday, June 24, 2017 9:39 PM

I'm a big fan of joining a club. I joined mine (www.pmrrc.org) so I wouldn't have to build a layout! And there's always stuff to do -- we're always building and re-building, and there are plenty of people with years of experience in the hobby who can teach me the stuff I want to learn. 

Aaron

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:14 PM

What type of layout design did you have in mnd? 

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Posted by speedybee on Saturday, June 24, 2017 12:49 PM

Mixy

Here I am explaining Why the tracks do not match/join as shown in the layout books when someone try to represent a given track plan in SCARM.

Also, I've noticed that the "straight" sections of my Atlas turnouts are not actually straight, they curve outwards. I imagine this is because the springy metal rail of the diverging route pushes against the straight route and bends it slightly.

So for example, take a left hand turnout. In SCARM the "straight" section will be actually straight. In reality the "straight" section will actually curve a couple degrees to the right.

The effect is most noticable on the sharper turnouts like Snap Switches and #4s. My #6s are pretty straight.

If you're using cork roadbed maybe you could force them straight... I use foam, which has enough squishiness to it that it can't really force anything.

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Posted by last mountain & eastern hogger on Saturday, June 24, 2017 12:16 PM

Whistling

Hi Mike and welcome aboard,

Good advise has been given, I just want to reiterate one item, maybe two..

Don't get caught in the planning stage too long as some of have done.  I feel like I wasted two years before starting to build and there is now very little of what I planned on my layout.  It is best to start building and getting a train running and then continue to develope your plan to build further or redo.

Nothing that we build is built in concrete. It all can be adjusted, rebuilt or changed that is part of the fun as well.  You don't have to be satisfied with your first or second attemp. I suggest you get started and you will learn as you go. Do not get trapped into buying all the fancy looking stuff until you have developed some skills and settled on a idea of the era that you want to model so that your purchases will fall into that time frame. That is why the transition period is so popular, so that the person can change from steam power to the early diesels.

Most of us have chosen  a favorite railroad company that most of our equipment belongs to and/or other companies that would have definately interlined with your chosen road.

That really helps in keeping your expenses in check and then not having to sell off items that took your eye but don't fit in with your era or area that you are modelling.

Good luck,  have fun, but get started.  Don't be afraid to take a small break every now and then ( a week or two)   and focus on what you have done, what you like about it and what you don't and how would it look better or operate better,if you made a change,  then get back at it.

Johnboy out.....................

from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North.. 

We have met the enemy,  and he is us............ (Pogo)

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Posted by NYBW-John on Saturday, June 24, 2017 8:08 AM

My first thought was to recommend John Armstrong's book but I see somebody already beat me to it. I second the recommendation. Even if you aren't interested in operations, there is a lot of very practical advice in it. One of the most important is what he calls givens and druthers. What do you absolutely have to have and what would you like to have if you can fit it in.

Somebody else said pick a time and a place to model. That is good too. When I started out I knew I wanted to model the UP and so I bought anything and everything lettered for the UP regardless of era. I bought a string of yellow TYCO coal hoppers with red lettering and thought that was way cool not realizing there was nothing prototypical about the colors. Ignorance was bliss.

Do you want to just be able to just run trains or do you want to simulate operations. That should drive the design of your layout. When you say you can't make the plans fit that sounds like you are using sectional track. That's OK for some parts but flex track is just what it says. It's flexible which means you can fudge it to fit to what you need. 

Realize that your first layout will be a learning process. There's nothing like on the job training. As your skills improve you will become more discerning and will likely want to redo some of your early efforts. That's all part of the learning process.

GOOD LUCK!!!

 

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Posted by Mixy on Saturday, June 24, 2017 4:41 AM

Here I am explaining Why the tracks do not match/join as shown in the layout books when someone try to represent a given track plan in SCARM.

Simply, it is because most of the layouts in the books were initially assembled with real tracks and then the plans are transferred on a paper. In 99% of these cases there are small geometry errors i.e. a track piece of 1,5" is used where there should be a 1" length or similar. And that is OK for almost any real layout - nobody can catch it on a long straight or curved section. But when the plan is put in a CAD software like SCARM, every single geometry mistake even for 1mm becomes visible! So, if you want to build a track plan already described in a book, just do it and don't panic if the plan does not fit in the software.

Mixy

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Posted by MikeP66 on Friday, June 9, 2017 11:08 AM

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply to my post, it is much appreciated - even the run forest run Smile

You have given me a lot to think about.

I will be building the layout in a spare bedroom and have space for a 4'x8' board.  I like steam locomotives, so was thinking about a time period around the early 20th century.  I have a couple of old Hornby locomotives from when I was a kid in the UK, so will use HO scale - I know Hornby OO scale is different to HO, but the locos do run on HO track.  I'd like to go for DCC from the start, although I understand the comments about DC.  I have successfully fitted a decoder into one of my old Hornby locomotives.  There are some features I would like in my layout including track inclines, a river and a tunnel.

I have just bought the book by John Armstrong, so I will read through that, come up with a plan and get back to for more comments!

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Posted by tin can on Friday, June 9, 2017 9:47 AM

Welcome to the forum and to the hobby.  Don't forget first and foremost, this is a hobby.  Do what you like, and make sure you enjoy what you do.

If possible, go to a train show that has layout tours.  Pick a large variety to see what others have done.  Scale isn't important, because you can "steal" good ideas from any layout.  Talk to the folks with layouts; some layouts are built with lots of help, and those helpers love to build stuff.  There are benchwork guys, wiring guys, trackwork guys, building guys, DCC guys, etc.  Even if they don't directly help you, they probably will offer encouragement or advice.

Remember the tin can; the MKT's central Texas branch...
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Posted by NVSRR on Friday, June 9, 2017 8:57 AM

Research.   It can be eye opening and interesting. You will find all kinds of interesting industries and railroads you never knew of That are long gone.   Odds on there is at least one in your backyard.  That can lead you to building a rr. That is long forgotten. Adding to the fun of discovery.   One rr i found  the Quakertown nd Eastern served two industries directly tied to the revolutionary war. A boat builder whose boats Washington used to cros the dlaware and a small steal mill who was around to supply cannon balls to the revolution.    The best part. It is a small enough line to fit a 4 x 8.     The point   You never know what you will find that screams i have got to model that and it is fun.     Stuff like that can be highly educationl for the kids too

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by cuyama on Friday, June 9, 2017 8:34 AM

oops, double post

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Posted by yougottawanta on Friday, June 9, 2017 8:32 AM

Mike 66i disagree somewhat with some if the positions here.

I would encourage you to join the NMRA - Nation model railroad association. Start attending their meets and visit layouts of the members there. Talk to the expierenced members, ask questions, sign up for operations on some if their layouts.

This will give you invaluable insight into what you do like and do not like.

Secondly - research research research.  Did I say research ?

Thirdly - develop a plan that includes layout, electrical, design, era, scale, DCC vs. DC etc

Fouthly - maybe this should have been first. Make it fun !

Lastly I would like to invite you to join us in Jeffries trackside diner. The first cup if Joe is on me.

TTYL

YGW

 

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Posted by cuyama on Friday, June 9, 2017 8:32 AM

Welcome to the hobby and the forum. Unfortunately, some (many?) published layouts can’t be built as drawn, at least not without handlaid-to-fit trackage (and sometimes, not even then!). Note also that if the layout is designed using one manufacturer’s line of turnouts, trying to draw it in CAD using a different line of turnouts may not fit. Or if the original plan is based on flextrack, it won’t work if drawn with sectional track. And as others have mentioned, sometimes the templates in a few CAD programs are not accurate.

As others have mentioned, a newcomer might benefit from following a plan that has already been built – using the same line of turnouts as the original builder. 

Seeing other layouts is a great suggestion. Clubs are possibilities, but there are also train shows where portable modular layouts are often set up. In addition, the national Model Railroad Association (NMRA) sponsors local meets and layout tours. A six-month trial membership is relatively inexpensive and might allow you to get some exposure to other modelers. And if there are still local train shops in your area, they can be a good source of information.

Although most folks are excited to begin, taking a bit of time to learn about all the options can make for a better overall experience.

Good luck with your layout.

Byron

 

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Posted by slammin on Friday, June 9, 2017 7:44 AM

Even though I've been modeling off and on (mostly on) since 1960, I really enjoyed A Realistic HO Layout for Beginners: Step-By-Step Instructions for Building a Complete HO Scale Layout (Model Railroader) by Lou Sassi. It is a good step by step lesson in buidling a 4 x 8 layout. You don't have to build this layout, but you can pick up a lot of information. Sassi is a  very capable modeller and I enjoy his writing style. It was published in 1998, so there are newer techniques. It can be found used many places for $5 or less. The HO Primer by Kalbach is another that teaches the basics. Being on old fart, I like hard copies of how to books. Its easier for be to thumb through a book than search the web to review an article or tip. Happy modeling!

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 9, 2017 7:05 AM

Neither SCARM, nor the Atlas track plans (or any other manufacturer´s plans) are 100% correct. Guess how I found that one out!

They are reasonably close, which is good enough. Don´t let that keep you from planning your layout.

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Posted by xdford on Friday, June 9, 2017 6:51 AM

Hi Mike,

Refer to the Message I have PM'ed you,

Regards from Australia

Trevor

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Posted by DSchmitt on Thursday, June 8, 2017 10:33 PM

There are some nice features in Scarm, but I found XTRAKcad easier to work with 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, June 8, 2017 10:16 PM

Hi MikeP66:

Welcome to the forums and back to the hobby!

            Welcome

 

You are off to a good start! Do read John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation if you haven't already.

Since you have attempted to fit things together using SCARM I'm going to assume that you have a basic layout plan in mind and you have some track to work with. If you have tried to put a layout together based on a SCARM diagram and things didn't fit, then I suspect that things like turnouts are not the same size in the plan as the ones you are actually working with. Are you using sectional track or flex track to try to build the layout? What size turnouts are you working with? Who made the turnouts?

It would help if you could post a sketch of your layout. Try to include radii, and elevations if the track is going to pass over itself.

It would also help if you could include a diagram showing your available layout space including walls, doors and windows as well as any other intrusions like furnaces, water heaters, stairs etc.

Cheers!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by dstarr on Thursday, June 8, 2017 9:45 PM

The way to begin a layout is to just begin it.  Your first layout will have some shortcomings, which you can either fix or ignore.  Unless you are into carpet running (trains get stepped on or have close encounters with the vacuum cleaner) you need some benchwork to put your track on.  Simpliest benchwork is a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood laid atop saw horses or those short two drawer file cabinets.  Go for 3/4 inch plywood.  Paint the topside grass green.  Lay Snap track  and get a train to run.  Running trains is a superb motivator to get the rest of the layout, scenery, structures, wiring, and the rest of it, done.  Run some trains.  Change the track around.  Run some more trains.  If you have the room, and the carpentry skills, think about building an around the walls layout, you get more layout and less aisle space going around the walls.  

   If you want to stick with the 4 by 8, think about running a view block down the center, to make two scenes. Think about cutting a deep river valley running out to the edge of the layout, spanned by a serious looking bridge.  Track plan for any layout is a main line (single or double track) that loops around the layout for continuous running and a bunch of spur track serving industries which your peddler freight can service.  If you go with a single track main, put in plenty of passing sidings.  Maybe a yard, maybe and engine terminal.  Your layout will look better if you don't run track straight along the edges of the table.  Put some curves into the track make it look like the track was routed for railroady reasons rather than looking like it was routed along the table edge.  

   I would start off with plain old DC.  Leave DCC until you get some more experience.  I buy a lot of my rolling stock and track at train shows.  I assume you are thinking HO.  In HO code 100 track is cheaper and more plentiful, and after you paint the rails rusty brown, it looks fine.   

Good luck.  Post some pictures.

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Posted by peahrens on Thursday, June 8, 2017 9:15 PM

Welcome to the fun and the forum.

I second the perusing of several good books.  Visit around a bit and ask experienced folks and good hobby shop folk about their journey.  As noted, make some basic decisions about scale, DC or DCC with sound, etc. 

Realize that if you get into this and it becomes a lifetime hobby (mine had long interruptions between junior high and retirement) you will probably have more than one layout.  I'll use my example.  I started with a HO Atlas snap track 4'x6' layout that had a crossover and a few switches, Atlas switch machines.  Probably had the track on the plywood.  Built a few building kits, no lighting.  One bump was an experimental hill. Expanded it to a 4'x10'. 

My 2nd layout was when we had kids.  Went with Atlas Custom Line turnouts and flex track on cork roadbed.  I never ran it much as there were too many other interests at the time.  Many derailments because I did not study careful track laying. 

"My" 3rd layout is really my grandson's, a 4'x6' Bachmann EZ Track with 2 turnouts for sidings.  We learned how to build structures, add a mountain and tunnel, a farm with a cornfield, etc.  Lighting in the structures and streetlights added some fun.  This became practice for my current layout.

My current layout is a 5'x10' or so with code 83 track, Walthers-Shinohara turnouts and Atlas flextrack.  Two level in one end so the trains can go around twice before repeating.  Good for grandkids.  Lots (too much track, actually) of turnouts powered by Tortoise actuators via a fun project of a control panel with LEDs, etc.  The layout is DCC and I've progressed to converting DC locos to DCC/sound.  Buildings have lighting. Scenery consists of the hills that are built but the scenery finishing is a procrastination issue it seems.  The latest excuse was the fun of adding some signals.

My story is to point out an example of a "journey".  Each person's is different.  Some progress to very sophisticated levels and each person's interests vary as well  No right answers except what pleases you.

I encourage using books, this Forum (ask any questions), finding folks to talk with on what they do, what they like, how to's, etc.  You can get started with some wood & screws, a simple track setup, a chosen loco and a couple of cars to check out your installation, and then take things from there.  No need to set a timeline, just adjust according to your interests and priorities.

EDIT: Check out the MR videos above under "How to" and "Videos".  Many are free to MR subscribers and some require signing up for the MR Video Plus (an additional monthly charge).  The free videos helped me on my latest layout, where videos on the "Virginian" layout project supplemented the 2012 MR articles on that project (see below).  I do encourage checking out some of the prior MR projects that cover lots of the basics.  Not to learn it all up front but to give you an idea of where to find specifics as you move ahead.

http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/build-model-railroad/2011/11/build-the-virginian-a-4x8-with-more

 

Enjoy the trip. 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by bearman on Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:55 PM

I agree with Jim and Rich.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by Bundy74 on Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:44 PM

To add to the good info others have provided:

1) Don't get lost on the forums here.  There's a lot of info, but if you don't know how to use it, it can be confusing and misleading. There's been many beginner discussions that have snowballed and resulted in people being discouraged.  Relax, and start small.  

2) Speaking of starting small, try building something, that's really the basis of the hobby.  Build a simple car kit, or simple structure kit.  Just get your feet wet.  Practice makes perfect, and you will learn what you like doing, and what you dont.  Take your time. This will also help to break the ice as far as cutting parts off the sprue, gluing, painting, etc...

3) Go watch real trains.  Figure out what you like.  Take note of what you find neat (i.e. railroads, regions, geography, scenery, etc...)

Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:40 PM

Honestly, since you are new... just build something! Don't overthink it... instead, have fun!

.

Get a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood and build a layout over the next few months when enthusiasm, excitement, and motivation are high. This will be learning, you will make mistakes, but trains will run and you will learn a lot. Play with it enough to figure out what you enjoy... then move onto the next one.

.

If you spend too much time in the beginning trying to figure out exactly what you want, you could become overwhelmed and leave.

.

We need more model railroaders!

.

WELCOME!

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:01 PM

Decide on a place and a time period.  That avoids the urge to get one of this and one of that.  WM Shays just don't look right pullling double stack UNP intermodal cars.

Depending on how "nitpicky" you are (see thread of the same title) trainshows are not a bad place to pick up rolling stock

IF:

They fit your era an railroad and

You look at them extremely closely to look for broken, missing or ill fitting parts, especially kits.  Don't ask me how I know.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Thursday, June 8, 2017 7:08 PM

BigDaddy
You've come to the right place. John Armstrong's book is a must read: https://www.amazon.com/Track-Planning-Realistic-Operation-Railroader/dp/0890242275

I agree.  Read the book.

Then build a table with a 4x8 sheet of plywood on top.  Or you just lay a 3/4" 4x8 sheet of plywood on 4 saw horses.  Then get some sectional track and some trains and try some track arrangements.  Armstrong's book will help here.  When you have something you like, make it more permanent by laying down some roadbed, install some wiring, and do some scenery.

Alternatively, look at some of MR's past project layouts (they do one a year starting in January), pick one you like, buy all the issues for the layout, and build it as they describe and show it.

Good luck and welcome to this most interesting of hobbies

Paul

 

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by jjdamnit on Thursday, June 8, 2017 6:45 PM

Hello all,

Welcome

Some things to consider...

What scale; N, HO, S, O or another?

How much space do you have?

Where is this space; attic, basement, shed, spare room?

What interests you in railroading? Running trains, modeling scenery or specific scenes; industries, coal mines, mills, river- or port-scapes?

When it comes to layout (pike) planning...

After answering many of the above questions I began to put my thoughts on paper.

I began with graph paper, a pencil and a BIG eraser. A scale ruler and drawing compass are always a plus but not necessary.

The great advantage of beginning with paper and pencil is it's cheap and requires little knowledge of CAD or other software.

Once I decided on a track plan I began to purchase track. I decided on HO scale code 100 sectional track.

Then it was a matter of trial and error.

If it "doesn't fit" don't be afraid to cut the track; I prefer a razor saw over track nippers.

Check out this thread... http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/256138.aspx

Many have suggested attending train shows. I second this.

Train shows have a combination of vendors and layouts.

Layouts let you see what is possible. You can also talk to the folks that built and maintain the layouts. Some are individuals while other are clubs; you might get an invitation to join.

The vendors can also answer questions about your particular scale and interests.

BEWARE: Vendor pricing at shows are not necessarily better than retail.

If you do decide to make purchases bring cash in a variety of denominations.

Don't be afraid to bundle. My first purchases, at a local train show, consisted of an obscure boxed set; with a basic oval for track, and a transformer (I began with DC).

From there I went to another vendor and, again, offered a cash for an item that I wanted. The vendor accepted my offer.

Don't be afraid to walk away from a deal that is based on emotion.

As has been stated in all these forums, the more details you can give regarding your questions will allow all these great folks to aid in attaining your goals in this great hobby.

Hope this helps.

 

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, June 8, 2017 5:37 PM

Visit train shows and club layout open houses for ideas.  The Tour de Chooch takes place every Thanksgiving weekend north of Boston, and offers a chance to see numerous home layouts and talk to their owners.

Consider the space you have, and how much (or how little) layout you can put into it.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:53 PM

Don't listen to them, model railroading dose not need to be expencive. Even when I built my large layout, I used sectional track to help plan it, any garbage track will do like old brass etc. By playing around with peices you quickly get a feel for how things look in general, no your final plan will not match exactly but will be close if done right. The first thing you need to decide is scale and next is era, this is sometimes dictated by available space. Things like modern equipment need a bigger radius than what I do, 18" in HO for smaller engines and only token 50' cars, most being 40' or less. Look into the new ways of doing things, old ways work but sometimes require a larger investment in tools if you don't already own that kind of thing. People still tout Homosite but unless you are hand spiking, it has major flaws being not water proof in an era where many ways to do scenery are water intensive.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:36 PM

richhotrain

 

 
riogrande5761

Get out now, or forever it will dominate your destiny and bank account!

Run Forest run!

 

 

 

LOL  Laugh

 

I wanted so bad to post something similar, Jim, but you beat me to it.

Rich

Kinda like the joke that starts off asking how to make a small fortune in model railroading . . .

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:33 PM

riogrande5761

Get out now, or forever it will dominate your destiny and bank account!

Run Forest run!

 

LOL  Laugh

I wanted so bad to post something similar, Jim, but you beat me to it.

Seriously, though, my advice is to just start planning and building. If you have the space, build  4'x8' table in the middle of the space with access to all four sides. Experiment and be ready to tear it all out and start over. Learn from your mistakes.  But, above all, just get going.

Rich

Alton Junction

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