ATLANTIC CENTRAL Crandell, ... First it assumes that one has that kind of time, and/or suitibly nimble computer skills..........
Crandell,
...
First it assumes that one has that kind of time, and/or suitibly nimble computer skills..........
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Sheldon. Here, I am not suggesting that one should, or must, go to a range of forums. I was saying that this is my experience, and I'm comparatively new to the hobby. I am also not saying each forum should afford its members a full and comprehensive range of experience, skills, and know-how. As many commenting here seem to say, they don't...as a rule. While a few really competent and accomplished modellers do post here occasionally, and definitely lurk, MR seems to attract the newcomers who tend to ask questions that the more accomplished modellers have grown tired of fielding.
My response was framed in the question of frequency of participation, or posting. This forum is about as busy as the busiest in my experience going to at least six or seven other forums over the years. The less busy ones are the ones where the old-timers and truly accomplished modellers frequent...such as railroad line. But the Atlas Rescue, Model Railroad Hobbyist, Big Blue, and modeltrainforums, and modelrailroadforums (two different places), compare quite favourably. Their cultures are different, and the set of skills and experience are somewhat different.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Second it assumes that one desires that much interaction with other people........ (here is were I'm going sound a bit snooty) I have been on this forum for nearly a decade, and honestly, it has not dramaticly increased my knowledge base regarding this hobby. OK, I came from 35 years of prior experiance, worked in the business, had mentors who are greats in this hobby - I get that. And, by the way, I have been very happy to share my knowledge - even if it is sometimes outside the mainstream and not always warmly received.
Second it assumes that one desires that much interaction with other people........
(here is were I'm going sound a bit snooty) I have been on this forum for nearly a decade, and honestly, it has not dramaticly increased my knowledge base regarding this hobby. OK, I came from 35 years of prior experiance, worked in the business, had mentors who are greats in this hobby - I get that.
And, by the way, I have been very happy to share my knowledge - even if it is sometimes outside the mainstream and not always warmly received.
My observation didn't pertain to you per se....it was a generalization about what a person might expect, and not the exceptions such as yourself. In the same way, a person who only knows this forum would go to railroad line and find a different experience...a substantially different experience. He would still find the newcomer, such as I was, but the weight of the modelling would be quite imposing.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And I have made some great internet friends on here, no question. But honestly, if I never clicked on this site again, I don't see the quality of my modeling deminished in the slightest.
And I have made some great internet friends on here, no question.
But honestly, if I never clicked on this site again, I don't see the quality of my modeling deminished in the slightest.
I wouldn't expect that to be the case at all. As you say, you came here with two decades or more of modelling under your belt, so you could have run tutorials from the get-go. Perhaps I am not seeing your point just above...
ATLANTIC CENTRAL In fact, I cut back on this forum, and cut out the other two so that I would have more time for actually building the layout and models.......
In fact, I cut back on this forum, and cut out the other two so that I would have more time for actually building the layout and models.......
Which is what I would expect of someone who was not here looking for information but much more often providing it. And this forum is one of the places very accommodating to both sides of that prospective exchange if the good will exists in its members, new and old.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And all those people I mentioned above who I know in this hobby who do not spend any time on any forum - I know for a fact that is how they feel - they would rather be actually building/running trains...... Again, please don't be offended, you did not offend me, I understand that many people thrive on the social side of this hobby or any hobby. But for me, the social side is just that, one small side...... And right now, the bit that I am on here, is my total social side. Work, family, and actually building model trains are way more important....... Sheldon
And all those people I mentioned above who I know in this hobby who do not spend any time on any forum - I know for a fact that is how they feel - they would rather be actually building/running trains......
Again, please don't be offended, you did not offend me, I understand that many people thrive on the social side of this hobby or any hobby.
But for me, the social side is just that, one small side......
And right now, the bit that I am on here, is my total social side. Work, family, and actually building model trains are way more important.......
Sheldon
I see, and I agree. I think some come here first to get a problem solved, but soon stay because of our forum's convivial nature. I almost never see newbies at railroad line. I can go back to it once a month and find the same posts, maybe now one line down on the front page for each sub-forum such as "middle scale" which includes HO over there. Here, at MR, I have seen several people who rarely comment pipe up when we have a thread of this nature and say it's the one thing that vexes them the most...posts that hold little or no interest by way of their topics, but their own thread gets shoved quickly down the page and eventually slips off the back because so few of our members can offer something constructive or instructive to the asker.
I'll close by saying I feel it is a very good thing we can discuss, and attempt to tweak (even if being self-serving when we do it) the culture here. Most of us would like to keep calling it a home, and all homes need a new coat of paint on the doors, or windows replaced, a new roof every 18-20+ years depending, and so on. A place can get run down if it isn't kept up. Even if we rehash this topic every few months, I don't see it as a bad thing. And, we do it civilly...thank goodness. It wasn't always the case here.
-Crandell
riogrande5761Larry, the rub is, what qualifies as an "uncalled for comment"? Paul's point is that some people are overly sensitive and get rude when "rivet counters are in the room. IMO, it's the rudeness that "opens the dance" quite clearly and quite unnecessarily.
Jim,On forums the dance can be open by things like: "I get it that if a model looks like a box car, even in a generic way, it's fulfilling a purpose to some modelers." A lot will see that as a elitist view and take offense.
I freely admit my modeling style and comments gets a lot of "higher tier" modelers DVD's twisted out of shape..I always like to show the other side of the coin which many believe is dead wrong simply because it goes against their modeling style.
Like I mention before I'm seriouly thinking about selling the bulk of my HO except the higher detailed cars and locomotives.
Why is that?
You may recall back in 2005 I had a massive heart attack and made a round trip to death's door. I figure that will save my olderest Grandson from having to get rid of the BB,Roundhouse and Accurail cars and any locomotive that doesn't fit his standards-he prefers the higher tier models.
One dealer has already offered me a very nice lot price. That will leave me with my 94/95 era cars and locomotives which is my higher tier models.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Paul3 I thought that was going to be a stellar tip, but that box was already checked. I do not see what I saw 30 minutes ago. Correct that: 2 min ago, it constantly changes. There is some sort of algorithm going on.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
GregC said: "if I look at the MR General Discussion and modeltrainsforum General Model Train Discussion pages, i see 16 posts updated in the last 24 hours on MR but only 3 on MRF. The general discussions, Model Railroad Hobbyist page has only 3. So it looks like the MR page is much more active than both."
I'm not quite sure what Greg is getting at. He mentions MR and MRH in one line, and then goes on to talk about "modeltrainsforum" which probably means MOdeltrainforum.com and then cites update numbers for each.
But each of these forums is structured differently, and if you look at "most recent posts" for each you get a different slice of their material.
I look at MR, MRH, Trainorders.com's model forum, and the Atlas Rescue Forum most days and they all have turnover in topics. Some are more active in others and some have busy "coffee club" areas that may be fun but don't answer a lot of modeling questions.
Forums I like are those where I can ask or answer a question and get involved in an interesting discussion with like-minded people. And I'm not talking about "the hobby is dying" or "how much do you have in boxes in the basement."
I don't think any of the more popular forums predominate in generalized modeling utility. For people without much time, root around and pick one you like. For people with time on their hands, there is far too much for anyone to absorb.
BRAKIE riogrande5761 All too often. I've bumped into a few non-rivit counters who have been quite rude. There is a forum I don't visit much because of one hobbyist, who is dominant presence there, has a history of aggressiveness toward those who are not of his philosophy or way of thinking. Jim,Here's the rub..As they say in Western novels "Somebody has to open the dance" and usually its an uncalled for comment from either side.
riogrande5761 All too often. I've bumped into a few non-rivit counters who have been quite rude. There is a forum I don't visit much because of one hobbyist, who is dominant presence there, has a history of aggressiveness toward those who are not of his philosophy or way of thinking.
Jim,Here's the rub..As they say in Western novels "Somebody has to open the dance" and usually its an uncalled for comment from either side.
Larry, the rub is, what qualifies as an "uncalled for comment"? Paul's point is that some people are overly sensitive and get rude when "rivit counters are in the room. IMO, it's the rudeness that "opens the dance" quite clearly and quite unnecessarily.
Certain individuals have taken offense, (I agree with Paul here) when some folks get into that realism thing. More often than not, it isn't aimed at an individual or model, yet people still place themselves at odds if they are in a certain catgory and then lash out.
Now if certain terms or words come across as offensive like bogus or fantasy, even in a general context and not when talking about someones pet model, please find me a "euphamism" for a model which doesn't match a real box car which gets the point across without making people feel personally attacked? And I don't think being rude is called for when someone discusses models matching the real thing or not. It is what it is.
I said it before and I'll said again and need be again and again.. I could fill a yard with my BB Roundhouse and my higher detail cars and I won't be able to tell them apart because I'm to focus on switching,reading car numbers and operating my engine and that alone is no small task because of the CV settings. In short you turn off the power and the engine will slow before it stops. You gotta focus there to or risk having the engine to take a nose dive off the end of the layout. Now if I'm just gawking at my cars,yes,I can tell them apart easily.
Now if I'm just gawking at my cars,yes,I can tell them apart easily.
That is totally fine of course. I get it that if a model looks like a box car, even in a generic way, it's fulfilling a purpose to some modelers. I just don't get why some feel offended when that topic is discussed, or should I say, digust! Just kidding. Anyway, realsim is absolutley part of the hobby and I think there is room for folks who care about it and for those who don't to coexist.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
LakeBRAKIE. You are doing it correctly, I am doing it correctly and so are others. Our correct may not be theirs, and theirs may not be our own. What I don't get is the, 'If your standards are not as high as mine, you are doing it wrong, attitude'. Not just different, but totally wrong.
Ken,I hear that a lot and yet,I never once said my way was the only way..
I suspect I focus on my switching because that's how I did my job as a brakeman and I suspect subconsciously I'm obeying a lot of safety and operation rules that was pounded,tattooed and branded in my head years ago. This is why I can place my higher detail cars in among my BB and Roundhouse cars and not even notice the difference in detail simply because I'm focusing on the numbers and the task at hand.
And a lot of folks doesn't understand that.
BRAKIE Paul3 but can you understand that other people do see the details when operating? Paul,Yes,I understand that to a point but,if they are using a switch list or CC/WB their eyes should be focus on their work and seeing most layouts are built below eye level even when seated its getting harder to see those details. About Code 70. Instead of C83 and C100 being the selected sizes C70 should have been the defacto standard track size. IMHO we prattled on and on and on about wanting higher detailed cars and locomotives while plum forgetting track is a model too. Should we start looking at a higher tier track standards for our detailed cars and locomotives?
Paul3 but can you understand that other people do see the details when operating?
Paul,Yes,I understand that to a point but,if they are using a switch list or CC/WB their eyes should be focus on their work and seeing most layouts are built below eye level even when seated its getting harder to see those details.
About Code 70. Instead of C83 and C100 being the selected sizes C70 should have been the defacto standard track size.
IMHO we prattled on and on and on about wanting higher detailed cars and locomotives while plum forgetting track is a model too.
Should we start looking at a higher tier track standards for our detailed cars and locomotives?
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
Paul3but can you understand that other people do see the details when operating?
I am on this forum the most. There is one other I check regularly and a couple of specialty yahoo groups.
This forum has all types which I thnk is good. I suppose I'm not as serious about this hobby as many are, so the "what's your favorite locomotive" type topics don't bother me. I read and respond to those as the mood strikes me.
I'm in the hobby primarily to run trains. I enjoy the model building, but it is secondary. I use everything - RTR, shake the box kits, craftsman kits, scratch built - to get the layout built. So this forum is the best fit for me.
Paul
Brakie,I understand that you don't see details and that you just see numbers when operating, but can you understand that other people do see the details when operating?
You know I'm an operations guy, too. I get my kicks from runaround moves and kicking cars as much as the next ops guy. I used hundreds of low-quality cars because I was focused on quantity, not quality. But, if I had resources, I would have used nothing but the best stuff because I like to be transported away to the era I'm modeling (in my head)...and the quickest way to knock me out of that mind-state is clunky details, poor paint, foobie paint jobs, and so on. Oh, I still enjoyed switching my low-quality cars around...but it felt better with a greater sense of satisfaction with the "good stuff".
It's like the difference in rail height. Code 100 to Code 70 is only 30 thou. That's about 4 sheets of paper. One wouldn't think it would make much difference but big rails make our trains look smaller. Any model looks better on Code 70 track vs. Code 100 just because the proportions look better and our trains appear be more massive. Still, it's just 30 thousandths of an inch but it makes a big difference.
riogrande5761,Thanks! The point of this hobby is to replicate the real thing. Being more accurate should be encouraged and celebrated. Those who accomplish this higher level should also recognize that not everyone can meet these higher personal standards, either through lack of desire, talent, time, or resources. Be humble. Likewise, those that can't elevate their modeling shouldn't be so defensive, nor try to justify their poor quality modeling by saying it's just as good and there's no need to get any better. Be humble, too. Accept constructive criticism for what it is: trying to help you elevate your modeling it's not a personal attack.
WRT Facebook, it can be managed to do what you want. Most of the complaints I've heard about FB come from people unaware that they can delete content they don't like from their newsfeed. They can block individual people, too. Just don't share too much on FB. Figure that everything you say on FB, even commenting on a newstory on another website that uses FB for their comments section will show up on all your friend's newsfeeds or even friends of friends. Most people who get in trouble on FB are the ones that don't know how it works.
I agree on the usual cycle of topics coming up again and again. It's rather amusing to see it all unfold the exact same way it did last month/year/decade.
BigDaddy,WRT FB hiding posts, I always browse FB with the "Most Recent" mode engaged. Log in, and look in the upper left side of the page. Right under your name are the words "News Feed" and three horizontal dots. Click on the three dots and a little pop up appears with "Top Stories" and "Most Recent". Click on "Most Recent". It will order your newsfeed chronologically for as long as you're signed in. Whenever you log in, check that option and make sure it's "Most Recent". That should solve your problem of seeing different posts in different orders every time you visit or refresh a page.
BigDaddy Especially since I have to work on my new thread make your own rail joiners from beer cans.
Henry,Let me know when you get that perfected and will pop cans work?
riogrande5761All too often. I've bumped into a few non-rivit counters who have been quite rude. There is a forum I don't visit much because of one hobbyist, who is dominant presence there, has a history of aggressiveness toward those who are not of his philosophy or way of thinking.
Jim,Here's the rub..As they say in Western novels "Somebody has to open the dance" and usually its a uncalled for comment from either side.
I said it before and I'll said again and need be again and again.. I could fill a yard with my BB Roundhouse and my higher detail cars and I won't be able to tell them apart because I'm to focus on switching,reading car numbers and operating my engine and that alone is no small task because of the CV settings. In short you turn off the power and the engine will slow before it stops. You gotta focus there to or risk having the engine to take a nose dive off the end of the layout.
ATLANTIC CENTRALDespite what some will say, my own experiance suggests that internet forums, on this hobby, or my tractor hobby, or most any hobby, only reach/interest/draw activity from about 10-20% of the people in that hobby. Of a long list of model railroaders that I know personally, very few are on this forum or any forum. And that even includes some younger modelers
Sheldon, that is true. I belong to a round-robin group of about 25 or so model railroad hobbyists here in town and I don't believe any of them participate in this forum.
This is the only model RR forum that I participate in simply because I would rather spend my precious free time actually modeling, not because I'm not interested in the other ones and spending all my time being that "armchair modeler" that is so often talked about.
-E-C-MillsHowever I cant quite put my finger on it why the facebook format does not quite work for me.
Facebook doesn't work for me because they are constantly changing what is visible to you. By that I mean if you are on a group page, leave that group page to go to your own stream and return a minute later, you will find that you don't see the same posts as you before, in fact you can't find some posts, maybe even your own for hours and hours.
I looked at a Canadian MR forum that was hinted at in reference to one of our new and controversial members. They referred to the MR forum as a bunch of rivet counters. Really?
A high signal to noise ratio is preferable in any forum, meaning less "me too" post, less "you're having a problem, just send your xyz to me", or answers that are rooted in pure fiction. The "bait topics" or whimsical topics are of no interest to me. Especially since I have to work on my new thread make your own rail joiners from beer cans. Oops I just lowered the signal/noise ratio.
Paul3 Being "haughty" is not the exclusive realm of rivet counters. Rude people are rude, no matter their skill level, but we've actually had far more comments from the anti-rivet counters then rivet counter comments (at least on this forum). "It's my layout and I'll do what I want!" is the usual rally cry heard in these parts.
Being "haughty" is not the exclusive realm of rivet counters. Rude people are rude, no matter their skill level, but we've actually had far more comments from the anti-rivet counters then rivet counter comments (at least on this forum). "It's my layout and I'll do what I want!" is the usual rally cry heard in these parts.
All too often. I've bumped into a few non-rivit counters who have been quite rude. There is a forum I don't visit much because of one hobbyist, who is dominant presence there, has a history of aggressiveness toward those who are not of his philosophy or way of thinking. On another forum which is generally an in-depth type of place, it used to have a lot more cool and interesting modelers who have largely stopped posting because aggressive and bellecose behavior is tolerated by the forum moderators - I've been told this is why many have left. It's a shame really but I guess forum life sometimes mirrors real life and if the neighborhood is bad, we have to vote with our feet.
People should be able to take criticism, even negative criticism, without falling apart at the seams.
And then there is real life. But I agree, some are awefully sensitive which I alluded to above. In some cases you have to just move on and step away from the bully's and hot heads, or touchy personalities.
I think that FB and even YouTube has siphoned off a bunch of activity from hobby webforums of all kinds. IMHO, that's the primary reason why the public forums are slower than they used to be vs. the newness wearing off. Heck, the newsgroup rec.models.railroad was a very popular place for years before webforums came about. It died down because people moved to webforums where the signal-to-noise ratio could be moderated.
Yes. I've talked with a few experienced friends as to what has happened to some forums I have followed for over 10 years and have gotten much quieter or have lost some interesting members who used to be active. In addition to being driven away by bellecose personalities, I was told FB is a reason forums have gotten quieter and if I want to stay up with the lastest this or that I needed to jump into the FB worlds. The problem is the FB world is a double edged sword and I've already shut my old FB page down years ago due to unwanted negative issues; add to that the many other negative things which btw aren't just a few paranoid Peters but IT experts are also frequently discussing it - so I've resisted the FB world at a cost it seems.
I don't learn a lot from this forum, either, but then I'm here more for the entertainment. If I wanted to learn more, I'd ask more questions but I don't. I'm generally content to watch for things that interest me and reply when I feel I can contribute something.
Pretty much this for me as well, but even the entertainment is generally wash, rinse, repeat and sadly, the real entertainment is often "base-nature" drama, ie watching the "bait topics" or whimsical topics (which are fairly regular features here) evolve in a somewhat predictible way and see if they get locked or how long the drama goes on. But ... thats the "ship MR forums" as it is run for better or for worse. YMMV as they say.
riogrande5761 Thats how I see it too here. I agree 100% about the type of topics posted here such as the "what is your favorite engine" type of topics drive off the higher tier modelers or the modelers with strong interest in following a prototype/era etc. To be clear, there is nothing wrong with those kinds of topics, it's just that these type of topics are not really what some modelers want to read The general discussion area is rife with the type of topics you mentioned or some which have been called whimsical.
Thats how I see it too here. I agree 100% about the type of topics posted here such as the "what is your favorite engine" type of topics drive off the higher tier modelers or the modelers with strong interest in following a prototype/era etc. To be clear, there is nothing wrong with those kinds of topics, it's just that these type of topics are not really what some modelers want to read
The general discussion area is rife with the type of topics you mentioned or some which have been called whimsical.
Whimsical is a term that I like to use for certain kinds of threads.
Yeah, this forum is all things to all people. And, I guess, for some of us that cn be a bit annoying. But, really, not much you can do about it. It is what it is.
Rich
Alton Junction
Paul3 The reason this place is busy is that Model Railroader magazine has the name. It's the No. 1 MR hobby magazine in the USA and has been since the old days. ... It's also a beginner's type of place. Newbies are welcome and are not intimidated by higher level discusisons that other forums tend to have.
The reason this place is busy is that Model Railroader magazine has the name. It's the No. 1 MR hobby magazine in the USA and has been since the old days. ... It's also a beginner's type of place. Newbies are welcome and are not intimidated by higher level discusisons that other forums tend to have.
Agree with the above which has clearly been the mission of the magazine for many years - to be an ambassador for the hobby.
The large number of newbies drive off the higher tier modelers. Not only with the sheer number of non-modeling posts ("What's your favorite engine?" or "How did you get into MR'ing?") that can push modeling topics off the front page, but also with the feel of the place.
Thats how I see it too here. I agree 100% about the type of topics posted here such as the "what is your favorite engine" type of topics drive off the higher tier modelers or the modelers with strong interest in following a prototype/era etc. To be clear, there is nothing wrong with those kinds of topics, it's just that these type of topics are not really what some modelers want to read if they go to forums to learn how real railroads did things or how certain box cars should look for certain periods of time or how many 85' flat cars were in use during the 1970's or ... ow to kit bash a model to look more realistic, that kind of stuff.
e.g. it's a bit like a sports enthusiast who knows statistics and history of some teams and want's to read about that rather than, something light and fluffy. The general discussion area is rife with the type of topics you mentioned or some which have been called whimsical, which are in a similar vein or only relates to trains in a peripheral way. Maybe fun for some, not so much for others understandably. Different strokes for different folks - lots of different strokes here.
There is a certain amount of anti-rivet counter attitude here which I have documented on this forum before. "Rivet counters are evil," was one of the quotes I found years ago. Well, if you make high tier modelers unwelcome, don't be surprised when they go away. They tend to find like-minded folks on other, less busy forums where in-depth modeling is discussed. After all there are always fewer highly skilled people than beginners in any hobby.
Bang on the mark Paul. I've never understood why the anti-rivit counting sentiment because the hobby should have room for a wide variety of modelers, and those who like to model in ways that match real trains, well, thats really cool and should not be offensve. Instead people interested in models matching real trains have to tip toe around as if on eggshells or just keep their yap shut. It's a fact of life that many model trains produced only look like real trains in a generic way and some people don't care - thats fine. I go to train shows and see all kinds of stuff you'd never seen in real life now or in the past. I just move along and focus on what interests me - heck, thats how it is away from trains too in real life.
The MR Forum, however, is still a great "gateway" forum to our hobby.
For sure, and in that regard, MR is doing what many feel is a needful thing. And to be fair, there are a good number of experienced people here who do step in and help out in ways that are constructive. I know I appreciate seeing Rob Spangler offering assistance and answering questions and steering modelers in the right direction. This place may not be where he and others come for edification, but rather to assist in the ambassadorial role, which is a good thing!
Paul3Brakie,Being "haughty" is not the exclusive realm of rivet counters. Rude people are rude, no matter their skill level, but we've actually had far more comments from the anti-rivet counters then rivet counter comments (at least on this forum). "It's my layout and I'll do what I want!" is the usual rally cry heard in these parts.
Paul,True enough but,it usually takes two to dance.
In my ignorant bless I have found a modeling style that fits me to a "T" and like I mention I have strict standards for my good enough/close enough modeling style.
As you know when I want to learn about a new model and its flaws you know where I go.
Again Paul,when I switch cars I focus on the number not the detail or car type..What's so hard to understand about that?
I have mixture of BB and Roundhouse in those 350 car which the majority is my collection of IPD boxcars.
I have Walthers,Red Caboose Exact Rail,IM and Atlas freight cars that I use for my 94/95 era. Again when I switch those cars I focus on the number and not the details.
And thanks for proving my point.
Geared Steam, thanks!
Brakie,Being "haughty" is not the exclusive realm of rivet counters. Rude people are rude, no matter their skill level, but we've actually had far more comments from the anti-rivet counters then rivet counter comments (at least on this forum). "It's my layout and I'll do what I want!" is the usual rally cry heard in these parts.
People should be able to take criticism, even negative criticism, without falling apart at the seams. People also shouldn't be rude about it, but if someone points out that perhaps using upside down Athearn BB boxcar doors (with all the hardware and waybill tackboards still attached) for a 2nd story barn hayloft isn't the most realistic thing, they shouldn't be attacked for it (and yes, that happened).
WRT your wood block comment, I see it like this: use wood blocks, use Tyco, Athearn BB, Atlas, Kadee, resin, or brass cars. I don't care. Just don't tell me that they're all the same quality because they aren't. Admit you're using lower quality, inaccurate cars because they're cheaper, less likely to be damaged, or you just don't care either way. I use plenty of low quality cars because I needed a lot of them and I'm on a budget. Plus I just don't care that much about freight cars. But I don't go around telling people my fleet o' 300 BB's is just as good as the latest Ted Culotta masterpiece from RMC.
Dave,I think that FB and even YouTube has siphoned off a bunch of activity from hobby webforums of all kinds. IMHO, that's the primary reason why the public forums are slower than they used to be vs. the newness wearing off. Heck, the newsgroup rec.models.railroad was a very popular place for years before webforums came about. It died down because people moved to webforums where the signal-to-noise ratio could be moderated.
The original MR webforums in the 1990's were not moderated at all. I was here at the time and it made r.m.r seem tame. The software was also pretty terrible. You had to click on each and every reply to read it, and in those dark dial-up internet days, that meant you had to reload all the ads and webpage pictures each and every time...only to see that the reply said, "Me too!" or something. Ugh. Finally, Kalmbach hired a seperate web company to create and manage the forums, and it's been much better ever since. And yes, even those long weekend messes were nothing compared to the old forums.
Ah, memories...
Kevin,You're making my point with regards to the anti-rivet counter attitude of this place. Saying that nitpickers "destroy the hobby" is silly but it won't get much reaction here, but heaven help the person that says Tyco or Bachmann ruined the hobby. Just watch the torches and pitchforks come out.
Sheldon,I don't learn a lot from this forum, either, but then I'm here more for the entertainment. If I wanted to learn more, I'd ask more questions but I don't. I'm generally content to watch for things that interest me and reply when I feel I can contribute something.
tloc52I've never seen MR release numbers of who and how many visit this forum. I know MRH forums did that a few weeks ago but measuring viewers on a forum is tough.
if I look at the MR General Discussion and modeltrainsforum General Model Train Discussion pages, i see 16 posts updated in the last 24 hours on MR but only 3 on MRF. The general discussions, Model Railroad Hobbyist page has only 3. So it looks like the MR page is much more active than both.
not sure there is an experts forum. My guess is those guys aren't interested in forums like many other modelers who just aren't interested in forums.
don't think you can compare a Facebook page to a forum. Each forum, such as the MR General Discussion Forum has threads on different topics. Facebook doesn't have separate threads
my guess is that forum activity depends a lot on forum culture determined by the participants over time and how they are moderated.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I belong to the Modellers Guild and the NMRA group on facebook. I find that its ok. However I cant quite put my finger on it why the facebook format does not quite work for me. Maybe its kind of clunky, trying to do too much, or maybe it seems superficial, there and then gone. But yeah its active.
The MR and MRH forums seem to be similar in activity rates.
Sometimes it seems like rivet counters get a bad rap. I say bring it on. I'm not going to worry too much about it, but, I think our models should be as accurate as possible. Sometimes the details are interesting to talk about.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL (here is were I'm going sound a bit snooty) I have been on this forum for nearly a decade, and honestly, it has not dramaticly increased my knowledge base regarding this hobby. OK, I came from 35 years of prior experiance, worked in the business, had mentors who are greats in this hobby - I get that. And, by the way, I have been very happy to share my knowledge - even if it is sometimes outside the mainstream and not always warmly received. And I have made some great internet friends on here, no question. But honestly, if I never clicked on this site again, I don't see the quality of my modeling deminished in the slightest.
selector It is probably best to frequent five or six different populations in the hobby...and by that I mean different forums. You get a broader range of person, personality, experience, culture, skills, history, and know-how. I go daily to at least five different places. Each has its own 'tone' or 'flavour', and you'll often see the same few people posting several times each day...not at all unlike MR, here. You'll also see people who go to several forums, sometimes with the same user-name, other times with a different name. But, as the Marquis de l'Hopital said of Isaac Newton, whose solution to a math problem sent to the best mathematicians seeking their responses came after everyone else's, "I know the lion by its paw." Meaning, you can soon tell by their style and common observations or expressions of experience, that they're the very same person. What makes a forum successful are, in no particular order: a. a willingness to subborn one's ego: b. good will; c. patience, even with the most truculent, intractable, and inexperienced asker; d; some critical thinking skills; e. a passion for the hobby; and, f. a willingness to consider the points of view of others when they are not consonant with one's own. That works in sandboxes of all kinds. To address the question directly, this forum is about as busy and far-ranging as about any other I know, all active cyclically, and each of them worth visiting. The one exception I'll mention is a somewhat slow place, but whose overall quality and skill-level very evident with even a quick and casual glance. Some of our former members are there, notably Karl (UKGuy): railroadlineforums. When I need to feel a bit more humble, I go there, look, heave a big sigh, and go about my day. -Crandell
It is probably best to frequent five or six different populations in the hobby...and by that I mean different forums. You get a broader range of person, personality, experience, culture, skills, history, and know-how.
I go daily to at least five different places. Each has its own 'tone' or 'flavour', and you'll often see the same few people posting several times each day...not at all unlike MR, here. You'll also see people who go to several forums, sometimes with the same user-name, other times with a different name. But, as the Marquis de l'Hopital said of Isaac Newton, whose solution to a math problem sent to the best mathematicians seeking their responses came after everyone else's, "I know the lion by its paw." Meaning, you can soon tell by their style and common observations or expressions of experience, that they're the very same person.
What makes a forum successful are, in no particular order:
a. a willingness to subborn one's ego:
b. good will;
c. patience, even with the most truculent, intractable, and inexperienced asker;
d; some critical thinking skills;
e. a passion for the hobby; and,
f. a willingness to consider the points of view of others when they are not consonant with one's own.
That works in sandboxes of all kinds.
To address the question directly, this forum is about as busy and far-ranging as about any other I know, all active cyclically, and each of them worth visiting. The one exception I'll mention is a somewhat slow place, but whose overall quality and skill-level very evident with even a quick and casual glance. Some of our former members are there, notably Karl (UKGuy): railroadlineforums. When I need to feel a bit more humble, I go there, look, heave a big sigh, and go about my day.
Your comments elicited two widely different feelings from me, almost compelling me to respond.
First, I take no issue with anything you say, and your advice for successful forum membership is spot on. And I think I understand the spirit and goal of your comments about a broad based "exposure".
However, not wanting to sound too arrogant here, and almost sure it will sound that way no matter what, I have to say that your premise of a broad based exposure to multiple forums assumes some facts not always in evidence.
I've never seen MR release numbers of who and how many visit this forum. I know MRH forums did that a few weeks ago but measuring viewers on a forum is tough. I daily go to 4 forums (inc. MR) and see many of the particpants here on others. Each forum is informative and possibly entertaining in its own way and valuable to me in many ways. I also belong to a few Yahoo groups but rarely visit them as few have new threads.
The place I learn the most from on any of the forums is the thread of building and updating of the layout. Folks actually building layouts seem to draw the most interest and most suggestions of improvements and techiques.
Enjoy your day
TomO
You raise a good point, Sheldon, about how many or how few model railroaders actually are members of forums including this one. I first joined this forum back in September 2004 at the suggestion of the guys at my LHS. But for them, I never would have even thought about a forum since I got all the advice that I needed from the guys at the LHS.
There are a few members on this forum who have provided me with invaluable advice and, as you say, most of friendly. As far as trouble makers go, there are very few on this forum. My only complaint is the occasional oddball who finds his way onto the forum and doesn't want to build relationships with other members even though most of the rest of us wish to develop forum friendships.
This is the only forum I follow, and I have dramaticly reduced my time on here compared with years past.
At one time I also followed the Bachmann forum, and the AristoCraft forum. Nothing wrong with either, Aristo may not exist any more? Just did not hold my interest.
Despite what some will say, my own experiance suggests that internet forums, on this hobby, or my tractor hobby, or most any hobby, only reach/interest/draw activity from about 10-20% of the people in that hobby.
Of a long list of model railroaders that I know personally, very few are on this forum or any forum. And that even includes some younger modelers.
This forum is reasonably well balanced, and that is its best feature. Experienced modelers can and do post here, discuss stuff, etc. But new modelers, and more "casual" modelers are also welcome and supported.
And overall this is a friendly group. It has had a few trouble makers, and it still has a few who will stand up to the trouble makers, but all in all a great bunch of people.
SeeYou190I think so many of the other forums are populated with "Armchair Conductors" that have no idea how difficult it is to actually build an operational model railroad layout.
While that is true for any layout its especially true for a ISL since there's a lot of reverse moves through #4,Peco small or medium turnouts with a small margin for errors..
One has to be more choosy on his car and locomotive selection..A Athearn SD70 is a nice model and I suspect they're just about useless on a ISL because of those those small turnouts.
BRAKIENow,be that as it may there is a lot of talented and knowledgeable modelers here.
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Brakie, I think you hit the nail right on the head. This forum seems to have actual model railroad hobbiests. People who have built fully operating model railroad layouts.
My trains need to look good to me, while moving. My model railroad needs to satisfy me while it is running. I think so many of the other forums are populated with "Armchair Conductors" that have no idea how difficult it is to actually build an operational model railroad layout.
These nitpickers that thump their chests over spotting the improper dimensions of the flat washer that XXX railroad used under the end grab iron bolts on their class XXX gondola car destroy the hobby for newcomers.
I guess it is the wisdom difference between my neighbor that actually restored a 1965 Mustang, and the ignorant 20-something down the block that thinks he knows everything and talks about how he will "do it better someday, I mean did you see he used the wrong color plastic loom for the wiring harness?" Who will give you better advice when you need something?
I like this group.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
There was a great deal more activity on a thread, and more new threads regularly, when these Kalmbach Forums were new (and when the whole idea of on-line forums was new, including sports team forums) - but remember, every topic was new back then and you now have years' worth of thousands of threads on every topic to research and look at. It stands to reason that there is less posting and commenting.
It was so new and different, we even had official "Forum Member" T shirts with all the magazine logos on them. Wore it to Galesburg RR Days one year so that we Forum members could ID each other and meet in person, just as we try to do each year at Milwaukee's Trainfest, and did for a few years at the Madison WI train show. But nobody wears the T shirts anymore. I still have mine.
I only wish Kalmbach had found a way to preserve the screen name identify of all postings, because as it is now, once you cease to be a member your postings are credited to Anonymous. That means that unless there is a hint in the posting itself you have no way of "considering the source" when reading an old thread.
The Forums were moderated virtually from the beginning but as I recall, Bergie did the moderating at work so they tended not to be moderated on weekends and as a result Friday nights to Sunday nights tended to be free for alls. He'd have a big mess to clean up every Monday morning. He never shut down a thread because "we've talked that issue to death" as they do now. There were real flame wars back then and some very nasty things were written.
Dave Nelson