Hello well I finally got the nerve to paint my NYC s-1 class loco. I am not the best painter by any means but I thought I would give it a shot. I used testers classic black from a spray can. Some tester's enamel yellow for hand rails and foot plates. and I even tryed my airbrush (first time for this as well) with some light weathering on the bottom. I am a fan of the NYC but I did this for my home road. I was not going for that new shinny look. I wanted some used but not beat up.
Can you see my flaw's? I can. What I would like is some input on what I can do different to get better results. Any thought's. Have a nice day Frank
Did you clean/strip the model before you painted?
For a weathered loco, black is, well, too black.
It's really hard to see the loco; it sorta drops out, or something.
Anyway, I think it should have been done in "weathered" black, for a start. Sort of a very very dark grey.
Ed
I don't see any flaws ☺, just a cool looking loco. Thanks for sharing!
One suggestion would be to invest in some custom decals.
Here is one source. Bill does a good job:
http://pdc.ca/rr/custom_decals/
Before ordering, you might want to spend some time thinking about future home road projects so you can get most of the decals you will need down the road on one sheet.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Hello
BMMECNYC I soaked it 90% alcohol over night and scrub it with a toothbrush not real hard then rinsed it with warm water let it dry. I don't think that worked the paint seem's to chip easy.
Ed I agree the black does not look like I wanted. I thought the dull coat would gray it out a little more. Now that I look at it on the screen the paint looks to thick also.
Snjroy Thanks I never seen one of these till I saw this at a train show. I thought it was a neat looking. So I bought it then research it. They spent most of there time pushing pass car's around or on short run's once the bigger motor's came along.
Dave Thanks for the link. These were rub on not sure how old they are found them in some stuff my dad gave me. Decal's were always tuff for me.
Have a nice day Frank
0-6-0Now that I look at it on the screen the paint looks to thick also.
That is one of the potential problems with using Testors spray cans. They put out a ton of paint in a hurry and you tend to get heavy accumulations, especially in the details and the corners.
0-6-0the paint seem's to chip easy.
Did you use a primer? They are designed precisely to make the colour coat adhere better. Another trick is to soak the shell in vinegar for a while. The vinegar will slightly etch the surface so the paint can get more bite.
0-6-0They spent most of there time pushing pass car's around or on short run's once the bigger motor's came along.
Not just ANY passenger cars, but the Twentieth Century Limited!
Yours is the original S-1 (or early S-2) with the single lead and trailing axle. They were rebuilt with two-axle pilot trucks around 1909. I left the handrails black rather than draw attention to them.
You did a fine job, Frank, and maybe a little more weathering will bring out the details. Yellow handrails are especially fussy. Yellow paint goes best over a white base coat. Trying to paint onto black is difficult, at best.
Maybe painting the handrails first, then masking, would have given better results... but not an easy task. Choosing just the right yellow helps, too. Your's might be a bit too "lemony"? Could be the lighting, too...
Thanks for sharing,
Regards, Ed
Frank,
It's way too early for you to be saying the paint chips too easily. If you see it happening this early, you're absolutely right.
Back in the day, I would first coat a model with Floquil Glaze. This seemed to help bonding. I don't know what to use these days.
A TOTAL PLUS: Since you've got brass, you can strip it. Like 20 times. Now, we all don't think yer supposed to, that's just a fall-back. But I think it's reassuring.
I'm real proud that you dove in. Good on you!
7j43kA TOTAL PLUS: Since you've got brass, you can strip it. Like 20 times. Now, we all don't think yer supposed to, that's just a fall-back. But I think it's reassuring.
Stripping and starting over is definitely an option, but don't expect the Testors spray paint to come off easily. I had a similar experience with excessive paint accumulation on a shell and isopropyl alcohol wouldn't even touch the Testors paint. I ended up using a citrus based cleaner by the name of Mean Green. Like 7j43k suggests, the good thing about brass is that no matter what chemicals you have to use to strip the paint you can't hurt the shell.
hon30critter 7j43k A TOTAL PLUS: Since you've got brass, you can strip it. Like 20 times. Now, we all don't think yer supposed to, that's just a fall-back. But I think it's reassuring. Stripping and starting over is definitely an option, but don't expect the Testors spray paint to come off easily. I had a similar experience with excessive paint accumulation on a shell and isopropyl alcohol wouldn't even touch the Testors paint. I ended up using a citrus based cleaner by the name of Mean Green. Like 7j43k suggests, the good thing about brass is that no matter what chemicals you have to use to strip the paint you can't hurt the shell. Dave
7j43k A TOTAL PLUS: Since you've got brass, you can strip it. Like 20 times. Now, we all don't think yer supposed to, that's just a fall-back. But I think it's reassuring.
That's the beauty of brass, you can strip it with laquer thinners. Paint just washes right off.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Excellent job! I think your black looks good as well as your light weathering along the bottom.
I recall the first brass engine I painted by hand..Why? I lacked the confidence in using a can of FloQuil spray paint but,had confidence in my brush painting...
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
7j43kAnyway, I think it should have been done in "weathered" black, for a start. Sort of a very very dark grey. Ed
Ed,I agree for a aged locomotive then weathered black is just the ticket one needs but,for a cleaner and better maintain locomotive then engine black is the way to go. A prime example would NS locomotives since they are well maintained.
I paint black with this mixture:
.
4 parts BLACK
1 part WHITE
1 part RED
This makes a nice warm dark gray. This allows details on my locomotives to really pop out. I do not remember exactly where I found this formula, but it was most likely in a Paint Shop article in Model Railroader magazine.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Hello guy's thanks for the complements and the info. But I think Iam going to strip it and start over. I will pick up some lacquer thinner this week and get it cleaned up. My main reason for starting over is the thick look to the paint.
I would like to try and use my airbrush. I have only used it once for the weathering on this loco. I think I can do better with that then a spray can. I have some Polly Scale Engine Black I was thinking of using that for the body and Polly Scale Grimy Black for the undercarriage to give a little more of a weathered/greasy look.
What are the fumes like with this paint? My wife and daughter have asthma so I have to really careful what I use.
I was looking in to craft paint's but It seem that is used more for structures and not for metal.
Is there anything I should to before or after I paint. Thanks Frank
I have only painted a handful of brass locomotives. I have no idea if this is the best method, but it has worked for me. Again, I am no expert on this subject.
1) Soak model in DOT3 brake fluid for 1 week.
2) Clean model with non-chlorinated "Brake and Parts Cleaner".
3) Soak model in undiluted Industrial Pine Sol for 1 week.
4) Repeat step 2
5) Soak model in White Vinegar for 2 days.
6) Rinse with distlilled water and dry with compressed air regulated to 30 PSI.
7) NEVER touch the model with your fingers after this point.
I have painted these models with Scalecoat 1 for the black parts with no primer. 4 parts black, 1 part white and 1 part red. I paint roof tops with Model Master British Crimson and the smokeboxes with Scalecoat 2 Metallic Smokebox Silver.
I do not bake the models. One fellow modeller here in town bakes his brass models in an EZ-Bake Oven, no kidding.
Your first paint job came out reasonably OK. If you are going to try again, remember that surface prep is a big part of a good paint job. Paint does not like to stick to metal, so you need to take every step you can to give the paint a good clean surface. After you get the old paint off, you definitely want to soak the model in a mild acid for an hour or so. I use supermarket vinegar, it's strong enough and easy to find. The acid etch roughens the surface and gives the paint some tooth to grab onto. Finish up with a good soap and water wash, followed by a rinse. Don't touch the model with your bare hands after rinsing. A trip thru the kitchen dishwasher will do a good job. Dry really well, paint doesn't stick to water.
I never paint locomotives with pure black, I always use a dark gray. It looks better under layout lighting than pure black. Rustoleum or Krylon dark gray auto primer is just the right color for a locomotive. Being a primer, the stuff has the best stick-to-metal chemistry the paint makers can make, better than any model paint or hobby paint. It dries dead flat and any kind of paint will stick to it. As it is, dead flat, it's just right for steam locomotives. For your electric locomotive you might want just a bit of gloss, which you can get with a top coat of clear gloss or perhaps Testor's DullCote. I would experiment on a bit of scrap to see what you like. You have to put some DullCote over decals anyhow. If you need a little more gloss, use a gloss clear coat instead of the semi flat DullCote.
To get a good job with rattle cans, hold the can about a foot to a foot and a half away from the model. You want the paint to go on wet, but not too wet. Spraying from too far away lets the paint dry too much in the air and yields a pebbly surface. Move the spray can straight from side to side and move it all the past the end of the model before you take your finger off the button. Best to put on one thin coat and come back and give it a second coat if needed, rather than one thick coat. Some practice on scrap, or even an old junker is well worth it.
This steamer is diecast Zamac done in dark gray auto primer, with some DullCote over the decals.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
0-6-0I would like to try and use my airbrush. I have only used it once for the weathering on this loco. I think I can do better with that then a spray can
I think so too but find something to practice on first, something from the scrap box, an old car or anything so you can practice painting smoothly and decide how to adjust the airbrush to get the appropriate layer of paint without it drying before it hits the model.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Hi there. Polly scale acrylic paints are safe. You should still wear a mask and ventilate, but it should not be a problem for your family if you keep the door shut.
For stripping, I bought the badger sand blaster. I use soda as a blasting agent. You should do this outdoors. Solvents will work as well but I try to avoid these products.
For priming, you can use a good auto primer baked at 250 degrees in an oven for 20 minutes after spraying. I prefer to brush on a coat of thinned shellac (thinned by 50%) before painting (I also use acrylics). I do two coats to make sure the model is well covered.
Simon
All good advice so far. My two cents:
Use the air brush for everything. Use a primer applied with the airbrush. BTW – stripping models can be a real pain – even with thinner. Since you recently painted this model it shouldn’t be too bad. I have had some very time consuming and frustrating experiences removing paint from brass that had been on the model for many years.
You can use black for the main coat and then lighten it with weathering coats. I use three passes of different colors when weathering (with the airbrush). I start with a coat of rust followed by a coat of gray followed by a coat of black to tone it down. The gray really brings out the highlights and you can tone it back down with the final black coat if it is too stark.
Airbrushing acrylic is different than solvent based paints. It tends to go on thick, so use very light coats. I am constantly adjusting the airbrush to get the finest spray possible. If I let the brush sit, I run water through it to keep it from clogging during paint changes etc... The paint on the model will be soft for several days (or longer) until it hardens up. It is easily dinged during that time.
Do practice on some scrap first to get an idea of how the paint goes on the surface and to get the hang of covering the surface without filling in details.
In looking at your model, I might weather it, fix the yellow and call it good. If you don’t like it after living with for a few weeks, then redo it.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Hello well I think I am going to leave the loco alone for now. I have been practicing with my airbrush and I am really starting to like in more and more. I do need a little more help with it.
How do you mix your paint for a airbrush not the color but the thickness. I think that's part of my problem it's to thinn or not thinn enough. I seen some were it said mix it so it pour's like milk but I can't see the difference in milk and water just the color. Does any one have a recipe? Thank's Frank
I don’t have a recipe, I just go by feel and it works out. If you want to use a method, I would suggest the time honored dropper system to get a feel for the proper thinner ratio. EX: Three drops of paint to X drops of thinner. It is a quick and easy method to keep track of mixture ratios. I might start with four drops of paint to one drop of thinner and dilute from there if it is too thick.
Keep in mind that different brands, and sometimes different colors will have different thinner ratios due to the differences in paint formulas and viscosities....You will get the hang of this part with some experimentation.
You’ve done the hard part which is to get started and take the plunge by painting a model...
You ae not going to like this answer, but it actually is how I measure paint/thinner ratio.
I bought a pack of 1,000 3ml pipettes a decade ago. Probably a lifetime supply. I can tell by how easily the pipette sucks up the paint mixture if it is thin enough to spray. I literally do it by "feel".
Hello I new thats what you guys were going to say. Ok a couple more questions. Can you paint when its hot 80-90 ? I wont be able to set up a booth in a controlled environment. Outside or the garage.
And I am using a Aztek A270 with a 130lb compressor and 25-30lb in the air line. Will this be ok? Thanks Frank
Not sure about the temps but it looks like you are in Ohio – the humidity should help keep things from drying too quickly. I haven’t tried airbrushing in the heat. My train room gets warm but not that hot (coastal CA).
Your airbrush is perfect for acrylic paint being an external mix (Less clogging , easier to clean). I use the paint cups with mine for paint. The paint jars with lid attachments I fill with water to clean the brush between coats, paint changes etc...Air pressure is something I just mess with until it feels right (sorry I’m not more exact about this stuff). Someone else may have a more informed opinion about the pressure.
Sounds like you are ready to paint something....Love to see the finished model.
When I paint brass, even unpainted models, I strip it overnight as most models have a clear overcoat, even older tarnished models(the old overcoats were very pourous and allowed model to still tarnish). The stripping also helps remove any remaining soldering flux that will attack the paint and not allow it to adhear to the brass. Then the model spends some time in a large mason jar with vinager to etch the brass. A coat of light grey etching primer is apply then the model is baked in the over at 180'F for 1 hour. Once cooled down, I can airbrush the color coat. The model is baked and allowed to cure between each coat of paint. The rattle can jobs can look good, but its much harder to lay down thin coats that do not obscure the finer detals that brass models have. Along with the dreadded pooling and fillets of paint in corners and around details. When airbrushing, I use water based acrylics. Easy clean up. I use rubbing alcohol to flush my air brush(a $15 Harbor Freight clone of a Pasche). I find it cleans out any dried paint better than straight water. When painting with acrylic, it almost dry as its coming out of the air brush and dries very fast after that. The baking in the oven helps speed the curing process and harden the finish. After the color coats, I normaly hand paint the safety color on the end of the hand rails and use the tip of an exacto knife to remove paint from any axle bearing surfaces. Painting of brass models is fast becoming a lost art form. With most modelers going the RTR route, and older custom painters dropping faster than flies, its becoming very hard to find someone to paint brass for those that cannot. And just like welding and other hands on tasks, custom painting brass cannot be taught out of a book or a forum, practice, practice and lots more practice is what it takes. Your first effort looks great. And when your ready, its easily stripped off and you can make another attempt to make it even better(just use the airbrush next time and bake the model between paint coats). DO NOT bake a model that has any super glued parts or any non brass/metal parts! A resistance soldering rig is a key part of any brass engine owners work shop, and the price of such soldring units have come way way down in recent years. Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Hello well I have been practicing and I think I got the mixing down. I painted an old Varney shell.
I am going to start stripping the brass one after the holiday. I really like this airbrush I wish I would have tried it sooner. Have a nice day Frank
looking good!! Post the next project when its done.
That F unit looks pretty good. I would not bake a brass model at 250'F, that is dangerious to the solder joints on the model unless its soldered with silver solder like a live steam boiler would be. 180'F for 1 hour is plenty hot. Curing the paint and speeding up the hardening process is what we are after, not desoldering an expensive model. Mike