BroadwayLion richhotrain How does him hide the feeders coming up the fascia and across to the track? I can see soldering feeders to the outside of the rail. I sometimes do that too. But, how does him prevent derailments when the wheel flange strikes the solder? Feeders go under the table and are pulled out through the fascia. Wires go under table, LION does NOT. No problem wiring inside the gauge. Web of track and solder goint well below fange of wheel. Wheely the flange does not go below the rail head. Plenty of space for solder. ROAR
richhotrain How does him hide the feeders coming up the fascia and across to the track? I can see soldering feeders to the outside of the rail. I sometimes do that too. But, how does him prevent derailments when the wheel flange strikes the solder?
Feeders go under the table and are pulled out through the fascia. Wires go under table, LION does NOT.
No problem wiring inside the gauge. Web of track and solder goint well below fange of wheel.
Wheely the flange does not go below the rail head. Plenty of space for solder.
ROAR
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainHow does him hide the feeders coming up the fascia and across to the track? I can see soldering feeders to the outside of the rail. I sometimes do that too. But, how does him prevent derailments when the wheel flange strikes the solder?
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion LION mounts the BUS WIRES on the Facia of the layout. The drop wires are soldered to that. LIONS NEVER go under the table. Him uses 18 ga for the drop, him wires directly to the rail, either inside or outside of the gauge. Done correctly it matters not. Him uses 14 ga for the bus. Cut off come of the insulation for the joint. Put a finished facia over the top of the working facia. Looks good easy to work on. BTW: LION solders ALL rail joiners. ROAR
LION mounts the BUS WIRES on the Facia of the layout. The drop wires are soldered to that. LIONS NEVER go under the table.
Him uses 18 ga for the drop, him wires directly to the rail, either inside or outside of the gauge. Done correctly it matters not.
Him uses 14 ga for the bus. Cut off come of the insulation for the joint.
Put a finished facia over the top of the working facia.
Looks good easy to work on.
BTW: LION solders ALL rail joiners.
I can see soldering feeders to the outside of the rail. I sometimes do that too. But, how does him prevent derailments when the wheel flange strikes the solder? Or, how does him manage to solder to the inside of the rails without affecting wheel travel?
BigDaddy Randy Is the free end of your wire to the rail joiner in the middle of the joiner? Do you solder it underneath or alongside the joiner?
Randy Is the free end of your wire to the rail joiner in the middle of the joiner? Do you solder it underneath or alongside the joiner?
Underneath the joiner. I use solid wire for the feeders, so I strip the end, bend it 90 degrees, and solder the bare end to the bottom of the joiner so that with the joiner in the normal position as if installed on the rail, the wire points straight down. I use the alligator clip helping hands to hold things in place. I try not to stick the brand new joiner on to any rail until it is time to actually install on the layout, so they are nice and tight. I usually have a few joiners floating around the working area when laying track which I use to test fit pieces those fit rather loosely as they've been on and off many times.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
SeeYou190 I am confused about some of the answers to this thread, and I feel like I am missing something here. . Some of the replies mention soldering wire to the bottom of rail joiners to use as feeders. First off... this seems like a great idea to me. I have never done this. With this method the wires will not be visible on the outside of rails. . So... I am guessing you do not solder your rail joints after installation. If you did, the feeder wire could come loose for the rail joiner. . Do you have problems with rail joiners working loose over time and not making good contact with the rail stock? . Please fill me in. . -Kevin .
I am confused about some of the answers to this thread, and I feel like I am missing something here.
.
Some of the replies mention soldering wire to the bottom of rail joiners to use as feeders. First off... this seems like a great idea to me. I have never done this. With this method the wires will not be visible on the outside of rails.
So... I am guessing you do not solder your rail joints after installation. If you did, the feeder wire could come loose for the rail joiner.
Do you have problems with rail joiners working loose over time and not making good contact with the rail stock?
Please fill me in.
-Kevin
When I solder my pairs fo track sections (flex track) together, I do it all at the bench - solder the joiners to the two sections of track and then solder the feeder wires on the bottom.
The Atlas pre-wired rail joiners I have seen come with really fine wire, #30 or thereabouts.
If layout conditions are such that the joiners are subject to a lot of motion they will eventually cause open circuits. My layout, in a non-climate-controlled garage, is subject to wide temperature swings (daily as well as seasonal) and the gaps at joiners open and close like slide trombones due to thermal expansion. Yes, thermal expansion of nickel-silver rail on a structure containing very little wood in an environment where humidity is considered high if it tops 10%. Of course, that lack of humidity means that there's no corrosion to cause contact or continuity problems. My answer is to install a flexible jumper around every uninsulated rail joiner. Only takes a minute or so per each, and guarantees continuity.
Soldering wires in visible places doesn't have to cause eyesores. If you paint the rails afterwards the feeders and jumpers tend to disappear. Then, too, 1:1 scale track is hardly pristine. Drive past some low speed track in an industrial or warehouse area and you'll see plenty of things on and near the bases of the rails that could be mistaken for soldered-on feeders.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
SeeYou190I am confused about some of the answers to this thread, and I feel like I am missing something here.. Some of the replies mention soldering wire to the bottom of rail joiners to use as feeders. First off... this seems like a great idea to me. I have never done this. With this method the wires will not be visible on the outside of rails.. So... I am guessing you do not solder your rail joints after installation. If you did, the feeder wire could come loose for the rail joiner.. Do you have problems with rail joiners working loose over time and not making good contact with the rail stock?. Please fill me in. -Kevin
Some of the replies mention soldering wire to the bottom of rail joiners to use as feeders. First off... this seems like a great idea to me. I have never done this. With this method the wires will not be visible on the outside of rails..
So... I am guessing you do not solder your rail joints after installation. If you did, the feeder wire could come loose for the rail joiner..
Do you have problems with rail joiners working loose over time and not making good contact with the rail stock?.
I assumed earlier in this thread that he was trying to attach feeder wires to rail joiners, so I mentioned that I solder feeder wires to the bottom of rail joiners. I also solder some rail joiners to the rails on curves to avoid kinks, but I never do both for the reason that you mentioned. I have never, in my 14 years of model railroading, had a rail joiner come loose and lose electrical contact with a soldered feeder wire connected to it. I have had rail joiners lose electrical contact but never a rail joiner that has a feeder wire soldered to it.
Living the dream.
What size is the wire on the pre-wired feeder-joiners? Way too small to power a 1:80 scale catenary motor with two amp-hog vertical motors (one of which, ED1618, ate a toy train power pack alive.)
Your better alternative is to solder the #22 feeders directly to the rail, either base or web, on the outside or the side that can't be seen from the adjacent fascia line. That eliminates the slide-in connection at the rail joiner, where Murphy likes to arrange intermittent open circuits that can raise frustration to new heights.
With the proper tools and materials, soldering is easy. Arranging all of your soldering to be done at a work bench or at the fascia edge is also easy. Spelunking under the layout to solder overhead isn't easy, so design to avoid it.
My own electricals run from soldered joints (panel controls) to terminals with screw threads (stud or standard terminal blocks) to soldered joints at the final user (rail, point motor, scenic lighting or powered accessory.) At every point, the wire and the terminal are positively identified by a layout-specific code. Those codes, and the circuit diagrams, are thoroughly documented, and that documentation has proven to be a blessing when things don't perform as designed.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with electricals as bulletproof as I can make them)
As the aforementioned "avid skier," I was also going to suggest soldering the feeders to the rail joiners. I slip a couple of joiners on to an upside-down piece of scrap track to hold them steady and then solder the joiners. I use #22 wire. It's easier to work with and provides less resistance. It also is easier to slip down through a hole in the layout to meet up with the bus.
Yes, I've enjoyed skiing for a long time. This season I did something to my knee, so my skiing career may only have a season or two left, but I'm 70 now and it's been a good long run.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I never use crimp on splice joints. The only connectors I use are the u-shaped terminal connectors, and when I do, I solder them to the connector. In the case of joining wire to wire, I solder and use heat shrink tubing. Mechanical-only connectors can fail.With solder, you're much better off.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
The joiners are atlas code 100 and the wires are tiny. The post to solder the wires together worked. Soldering the wires at the workbench then installed the joiners to the track. We have no hobby shops close by. The only one is over 250 miles away. Thanks to all the ideas.
I was talking just in general. It is a large connection for a microscopic size object. You can’t just slam it together. You have to do it like a surgeon with precision if you want it to work. Tiny wires are one of the biggest headaches in this hobby. So where is the fun? It’s the larger picture, building the masterpiece. I built mine with happy memories that I can relive everyday. My layout includes a ski area based on the one I worked at. I go skiing everyday in my mind. I plan on scratch building a lift but haven’t worked it out yet.
Anyway don't let the wire thing get you down. You will learn and get better at it as with all things in this or any other endeavor. p.s. If I were to compare model railroading to a sport it would be golf, a non extreme, slow paced game that the player is never completely satisfied and always striving to improve.
Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf and Santa FeThey are designed for #12 wire as the bus and #18 wire from the fixture.
I did not link to that size, but you are right, size matters. The 3M 905 is for a 14 -18 ga run and an 18 -22 ga tap. It certainly is possible that his prewired joiners are undersized or his connectors are oversized. There are a variety of knockoff Scotchlok type connectors from the Far East and who knows what size they really are.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/EMDCI/Home/Products/ProductCatalog/~/3M-Scotchlok-Electrical-IDC-905-BULK-Double-Run-or-Tap-Low-Voltage-Automotive-Applications-Red-22-18-AWG-Tap-18-14-AWG-Run-500-per-bag-5000-per-case?N=5430181+3294757559&rt=rud
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I love skiing so much I worked at a ski area so I could ski for free every day. Skiing is fun but it is totally different than model railroading. Skiing is a physical activity, a sport. Model railroading is a craft where your creative juices can flow. It is more cerebral fun and depends on your own thoughts and imagination. It can’t be compared to flying down a hill at break neck speed. It can’t be compared to mountain biking or surfing or boogie boarding. It’s more of the same type of fun that makes people turn old cars into hotrods, or like those people who built their own wood furniture or remodel their own house, paint their own pictures, make their own pottery. The fun is in creating your own masterpiece. Model railroading is not a turnkey hobby. You have to assemble it yourself. A background in electronics is helpful, or in my case playing with electric trains as a kid taught me to be an electrician because day one on the job I already had skills that other beginners didn’t have. Anyway, there are certain tools and skills required and it is a learning process. This forum is a good place to get help. Many people do get frustrated and leave the hobby, however many more just love those little trains so much that even if they never build a layout they collect the locomotives and cars just to have them in their collection. Those suitcase style connectors are designed for strip lighting in factories. They are designed for #12 wire as the bus and #18 wire from the fixture. They are designed for professional use. They were never intended for model railroads. I don’t use them. All of my wires run back to the source and are connected with wire nuts or connected to screw terminals. If you use suitcase connectors you have to make sure that the little metal fork inside stabs into the wire to hold it. If the fork doesn’t pierce the wire covering, it doesn’t make the connection nor does it hold the wire. Look carefully at what you are doing and figure out the mechanics of how it works so you can do it properly. One solution is to simply wire nut #18 wire to the rail connector wire and use that fatter #18 wire in the suitcase connector. I make my own wired rail connectors at the workbench by soldiering #18 wire to standard rail connectors.
OP reads to me that he is using eg Atlas rail joiners which used a VERY fine wire and won't work worth a darn in suitcase connectors of any sort. Lots of insulation but very fine wire inside. They are also grossly overpriced.
#20 solid wire solders nicely on the bottom of the regular rail joiners. I've used this method successfully on two layouts now. I make up a batch at the workbench where it is easy to solder and then I have them ready while track laying. I solder my feeders to the bus, but since it's real #20 wire, an appropriate size crimp connector would also work. Perfect for the ones made for 18-22 size wire, as the #20 is right in the middle. The wire I use, I got from Home Depot, it's actually a 2 conductor wire meant for alarms. The two conductors are only loosly twisted so as you cut a length off, the two untwist with no effort. Bonus, you get 2 colors so if you pay attention when you add on the joiners with wires attached and keep the colors straight, when you go to hook them up all you have to do is connect like color to like. They are so cheap and easy to make up that I use them for EVERY rail joint, unless I need an insulated joiner. That includes all 3 legs of a turnout (Atlas type).
mbinsewi Maybe Dave's suggestion of bending the wire back on itself, will help make the connection tight.
Maybe Dave's suggestion of bending the wire back on itself, will help make the connection tight.
With a suitcase connector, it should not help. There's a slot the wire goes in. If you fold the wire, there'll then be TWO wires stacked in the same slot. The slot won't get any more "filled" with two wires than one.
Folding can help with a setscrew type connector.
Recommend finding a good quality connector that is actually designed for the task.
Ed
The way I understand it, Greg had it right in his post, that the OP is using the prewired rail joiners, like what Atlas offers, and the wire does not match the wire he's using, and whatever cripping/splicing devise he's using, is not making a tight connection, because of the difference in wire size.
He's also asking what size is the wire on the prewired joiners, so he can get wire to match. I don't know what size it is, as I have never used the wired rail joiners. Maybe there is some info on the Atlas site.
Mike.
My You Tube
The OP talks about a "rail joiner", so I assume that he means a rail joiner, but I guess he could mean a butt splice, a suitcase connector, a whatever.
Hi bluestar:
One possible way to overcome the problem might be to fold the end of the wire back on itself so that you are actually crimping twice the thickness of wire.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
If you want to join a 22ga wire with another 22ga wire using crimp connectors, these are a very good choice:
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/NA_Communication_Technologies/Home/Products/~/3M-Scotchlok-IDC-Butt-Connector-UR-Box?N=7569738+3291638465+3294770243&rt=rud#
As you can see, they have a range of 26ga to 19ga. So they should work nicely on 22ga.
Among other places you can get them from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchlok-Butt-Connector-Yellow/dp/B0076AY6J8/ref=pd_sbs_23_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0076AY6J8&pd_rd_r=EYHZSVVWPCHEVFPADPAD&pd_rd_w=B9A1R&pd_rd_wg=RtC87&psc=1&refRID=EYHZSVVWPCHEVFPADPAD
There is also a special installation tool:
https://www.amazon.com/Platinum-Tools-12100C-Connector-Pressing/dp/B00099HTJM/ref=pd_bxgy_328_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00099HTJM&pd_rd_r=SW2FE6JJB522G8EJNAHA&pd_rd_w=Rgsh2&pd_rd_wg=3l21v&psc=1&refRID=SW2FE6JJB522G8EJNAHA
Almost always, special installation tools are worthwhile investments.
gregcsounds like you're using wired rail joiners as feeders and having a problem with a crimp connecting the feeder and main wire under the layout.
A lot of us are confused too. Bluestar are you crimping butt connectors like this?
The yellow and blue connectors that look exactly like this but are for larger wires.
If you mean suitcase connectors http://www.micromark.com/Suitcase-Connectors-IDC-905-Red-Pkg-of-25
They are meant to have a larger gauge bus wire and a smaller (22 is ok) feeder wire. These too come in different sizes. You need the right size.
sounds like you're using wired rail joiners as feeders and having a problem with a crimp connecting the feeder and main wire under the layout. is this correct?
i've always had problems with crimp connectors. Seems that you need the right tool to do the crimp.
sounds like you may be better off with wire nuts. You can wrap them with tape if you're worried they will become loose.d
i'm proficient at soldering, but i've never considered soldering under the layout.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
bluestar Add feeder wires to layout and the wire on the rail joiners is no size match to the smallest wire we found. We are using size 22 wire to crimp to #22 and the rail joiner wire falls out after crimping. What size is the tiny joiner wire? Model trains sold to us as relaxing, fun. The reverse is true. Skiing is far more fun in winter.
Add feeder wires to layout and the wire on the rail joiners is no size match to the smallest wire we found. We are using size 22 wire to crimp to #22 and the rail joiner wire falls out after crimping. What size is the tiny joiner wire? Model trains sold to us as relaxing, fun. The reverse is true. Skiing is far more fun in winter.
Not quite sure just what your problem is. Are you using suitcase connectors to crimp 22 gauge feeders to bigger bus wire? I use #14 solid copper house wire for my power bus under the layout. #14 is over kill electrically speaking, but it's cheap, I have a good deal of used #14, and it is mechanical rugged and so that's my bus wire. I use #22 for feeders. I strip and solder one end to the rail. I strip off about 1/2 inch of insulation from the bus wire, using an Xacto knife, and I wrap a stripped end of the feeder three or four turns around the thicker bus wire, then I solder it. I stagger the feeder to bus wire joints so they won't short out if accidently touched together while I am working under the layout. I don't bother to insulate the joints.
I gave up down hill skiing a few years ago, but I agree that it is a fine winter sport, good exercise, good use of spare time. My children learned to love skiing too. Go for it.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
You better cheer up or you won't be doing model railroading very long.
Which track which rail joiners are you using? I use Atlas track and Atlas rail joiners. I solder 22 gauge feeder wires to the bottom of the rail joiners, and I have no problems. No need to crimp the rail joiners. If you are placing the wire inside the rail joiner and crimping it, that won't really work. Solder the wire to the bottom of the rail joiner.
Welcome to the forums.
Yes, model railroading can be frustrating at times, but sometimes overcoming the challange can be very rewarding. It can be done in all seasons, includiing mud season and on rainy days, so not truely limited by weather.
I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your wire question, but soldering (I'm still working on learning that) should work.
Mr B is an avid skier and way ahead of me on his layout. Maybe he will check in and have an answer or suggestion for you.
Good luck,
Richard