lol. well, there's still a little interest there. i show him the available online photos and he tells me which ones he likes. ordered the GN 4-8-4 for me, but when he saw it he wanted it...so we sold off plastic steam instead, and it is his now.
Actually, didn't have to order GN steamer because my local shop had one unspoken for of the exact road number and version I wanted.
All the plastic we sold...bought me a brass heavy 2-8-2.
John
P.S. When C&O 1309 lives and breathes once again, back from the dead, we will be there. Then perhaps Johnny and James will get an up close and personal lesson about super steam power.
Seems the apple doesn't fall to far from the tree, John.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Sheldon--
Thank you for the explanation. I was only responding based upon what I perceive to be the original poster's requirements. The MTH PA's, if you have to have Santa Fe, will look good and will run, generally speaking, reasonably well. Although I sort of recommended the brass Overland PA's, it is also true at this late date that some of them have spotting of the plated finish (as called out by brasstrains in their item descriptions).
I am not particularly an MTH fan. I tried their engines, and their DCS system, and for me on a modestly sized layout, they all worked very well. Then my kids got bored with the fancy steam and I tried to keep them interested with (other) diesels...which worked for awhile, and now my youngest son actually has learned to appreciate the steam power that had very complex paint schemes, like for example the BLI GN 4-8-4 in glacier green. So although I have tried a great deal of product and traded a great deal of it, part of the trading was trying to find stuff that my kids found interesting, even if they don't run it very much. The youngest retains some interest in model trains. I have to balance his requests with what can reasonably be acquired.
I have not owned any MTH engines in awhile, and am only speaking from my recollection of how well the Erie PA, the last MTH engine I had, ran for me, using the MRC Sound Controller 2.0. It was a good engine, and fast enough (coming from a former speed demon). I was known to be the fastest runner of all the local guys. Now I have brass heavy mikados that maybe run a scale 30 mph, lol.
Respectfully submitted--
P.S. Items on Johnny's shopping list for me to acquire, in case you are actually curious. These all bring the "bling" to HO trains:
Overland Models/Ajin Boston and Maine beautiful blue/black/silver/red stripe 4-6-2 for the Paul Revere
Division Point/Boo Rim Rock Island bright red and black 4-8-2
New England Rail Services/Samhongsa Rutland 4-6-2 (they have gorgeous gold paint over brass, that seems to have held up exceptionally well on a really neat little pacific).
and pretty much any brass articulated with green boiler, so I'll list the Division Point/Boo Rim Rio Grande L-62 2-6-6-2 as my number 1 future purchase choice, when I can find one and have saved up the 2 grand in cash.
PRR8259 Sheldon-- I only have MRC Tech 6 Sound controller 2.0. It does not put out 16 volts as my previous supplies did when I regularly operated MTH and Intermountain modern diesels (that both run on up to 16 volts). Surprisingly, the MTH Alco PA ran just fine for me. I do not believe that it requires as much voltage as the big modern AC Dash whatever (not my era, don't know models) diesels. However, max voltage output I do not know/have not found online. John
I only have MRC Tech 6 Sound controller 2.0. It does not put out 16 volts as my previous supplies did when I regularly operated MTH and Intermountain modern diesels (that both run on up to 16 volts). Surprisingly, the MTH Alco PA ran just fine for me. I do not believe that it requires as much voltage as the big modern AC Dash whatever (not my era, don't know models) diesels.
However, max voltage output I do not know/have not found online.
John, not all MTH locos suffer equally from the poor speed performance issue at 12-14 volts DC. Why some are different I don't know.
I use 13.8 volt regulated power supplies to power my Train Engineer throttles.
EVERY other brand of loco runs at a reasonable prototype top speed at full voltage.
MR reviews over the years, and complaints on this and other forums have noted a number of MTH locos that would barely crack 30 smph at 12 volts DC.
Their electronics seem to use more power, have more voltage drop, than DCC decoders, and their motors seem to be 14-16 volt or higher....
I have a reasonably large fleet of Intermountain F units, they all run just fine on 13.8 volts, but they are true DC, no decoders. None of my locos have decoders.
Depending on the quality of the actual transformer, and any regulating circuits, DC power packs can read no load voltages easily into the 16-18 volt range but be down to 12-14 under a 1/2 amp or less load.
But solid state throttles, like the Train Engineer, need more stable voltages, and they recommend using a regulated power supply.
Additionally, the Train Engineer is a full voltage pulse width modulated throttle - just like the output of a DCC decoder. Decoders of any type to not generally like that as a "DC" input, most dual mode DCC decoders will not work with the Train Engineer at all.
I'm not paying MTH prices to rewire any locos, so it does not matter what they make, or how good it is in any other way.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALRespectfully, the Marklin PA has a pilot that turns with the front truck so it can go around 14" radius Marlkin track? How can that be a good looking model?
Maybe... and maybe the paint and grills are not the best, but the Maerklin PA captures the shape of the windshiled-nose area better than all others.
Regards
Walid
I would buy a brass PA long before I would buy one from MTH.
I would be very suspect of how the MTH model would run on DC, and since I still run DC - and not at 16 volts.........
ATSF fans, generally speaking, because I can't speak for all, typically want the "plated finish" look, also contrasting with relatively flat aluminum painted areas, of the real Santa Fe PA's.
Be advised, brasstrains.com does now have or recently had Overland Models Santa Fe PA's, with good paint jobs, at prices essentially flat from 20 years ago (partly because they are used engines now, and may not be perfect). The prices of these particular engines are not that much more than brand new MTH PA's. It's all a matter of one's preference. Some Overland PA's had sloppy globs of solder that Ajin Precision simply plated over and ignored--but the ones I checked out at brasstrains (being a former Santa Fe diesel fan) looked to be pretty good (may have spotting of the finish due to handling now). Also, they have the boxes and versions mixed up on their website. The modernized ones (regular and EMD repowered versions) have nose front mu notches and the flat radio antenna platforms on the roof. Anything sold differently is in the WRONG box.
As always, must do one's homework. I owned the Overland ATSF PA's years ago, and am familiar with the versions they offered during the 90's.
I do know other ATSF fans who are happy as a clam with the Proto 2000 units.
If you want gleaming gorgeous, maybe MTH is the way to go as the aging clearcoat on those now 25 year old Overland Models may be allowing the spotting.
There is at least one newer run in blue Overland boxes, with exquisite painting, from the 2000's, but none of them are available at "low" end pricing.
khier John, Thanks for your reply. As far as I could grasp from the online photos, Märklin/Trix PA has the most accurate shape. However, only Märklin made PA in ATSF livery, which I am interested in, but it is a non-DCC, operated by AC on 3-rail track. In addition, prices of both Märklin and Trix version are astronomical. Now the MTH version are offered at very attractive prices that make me forgive the inaccuracy, and accept other lines than ATSF. And, frankly, I do not see this high nose.... but this maybe just my eyes. Regards Walid
John, Thanks for your reply. As far as I could grasp from the online photos, Märklin/Trix PA has the most accurate shape. However, only Märklin made PA in ATSF livery, which I am interested in, but it is a non-DCC, operated by AC on 3-rail track. In addition, prices of both Märklin and Trix version are astronomical. Now the MTH version are offered at very attractive prices that make me forgive the inaccuracy, and accept other lines than ATSF. And, frankly, I do not see this high nose.... but this maybe just my eyes.
Respectfully, the Marklin PA has a pilot that turns with the front truck so it can go around 14" radius Marlkin track? How can that be a good looking model?
I have three 20 year old Proto2000 PA's and a PB, and they look great and run great. Of course mine are not painted ATSF, I don't model the ATSF.....
Nice model. Runs very well. Lights very well. Details are good. Grills look pretty good. Paint is pretty good, especially considering these normally have very complex paint schemes that are difficult even for professional painters to complete. Lighted number boards are way cool.
My concern is that there is something about the way the body mounts at the rear of the A units that is just "off", and I did not know how to fix it on my Erie Alco PA.
If you look closely at the online photos, some of the PA's have a "front nose high" appearance. The 3/4 angle photos they like to use seem to hide that. That's how my Erie PA-1 looked. It bothered me, and I eventually sold it.
I have had a similar issue with (some models of) Intermountain F units also being out of level, and slightly nose high, as well. I tried to fix it but my fix just did not work out.
I had a Proto 2000 Lehigh Valley PA-1, not as nicely detailed as the MTH, but it was an awful lot of fun to play with. If you don't have to have the beautiful grills of the MTH model, the Proto 2000 engines can be a good value purchase.
Curiously, the MTH FA freight diesels seem to be more level, but the tabs that hold the grills on are also more easily visible than on the PA's. Some folks might find that to be distracting. Now, I'd go with the Rapido FA freight unit if I could get the one that I wanted. I did almost buy the MTH Lehigh Valley FA's because they are nice, and I think my dealer still has plenty.
If I was still into diesels and not steam, I'd actually buy either of the FA's, and I'd probably try to find the MTH Alco PA in person as some are just fine and seem to be level, so I'd just try to find a "good" one that suited me.
The Rio Grande one in particular always tempted me. The ATSF ones are way way too shiny even though I love the fresh paint look...they went overboard.
I think it's the finest looking PA yet, at least ATSF. Runs well too. The finish and details are tops.
Dear All,
How would you rate MTH ALCO-PA units in terms of accuracy, finish and detailing? I have never seen an MTH in person, therefore it is very hard to judge the locomotive from internet photos and reviews.