Reading the "Less is more" (details) thread reminded me of what I have observed on layouts with sound equipped locomotives.....less is more!
Not that I want silence the sound effects. I have nine locomotives in my collection and all but one has sound. I love sound...at the right volume. Have you ever visited a layout and the locomotives were too loud? I have heard HO layouts that could compete with tin plate for decibel levels.
I have tried to keep my locomotives at a more realistic sound level. I enjoy being able to hear my trains fade off in the distance and then emerge again.
Your thoughts?
The last BLI steamer I brought home woke everyone in the house when I first fired it up. Love the sound but yikes, default volume is way too high...
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
I found that if I turned the sound down, my locos sounded BETTER. As in, the sound quality. And they're still loud enough.
I'm not sure about the realism part. First, we just don't have the deep bass that's there in reality. So it's kind of hard to talk about a REALISTIC sound level.
But, yeah, sound has been creeping up on me over the past couple of years. Now, I just automatically order my stuff sound equipped.
Ed
All the sound equipped locomotives I own get their volume levels dropped by at least half, many more.
If I can hear it on another floor level, it's way too loud!
All of mine end up around 20-30% volume, at most.
So, yes, less (volume) is more (better) in my book!
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Like Ricky and others I turn the master sound volume way down on all my locomotives, with the exception of any engines that are going to be run at a train show. The background noise can be so loud that even full volume can be hard to hear.
Unfortunately, as Ed said, full volume doesn't equal great sound, so at the shows I'm going for quantity vs quality just to keep the masses entertained. It is also fun when I'm running my HO scale two axle critters when the knowledgeable train folks realize that they have sound.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I recently added 4 soundcar decoders to freight cars. Putting them in consist with 3 locos, adjusting the clickrty clack and flange squeal to reasonable levels, then helped adjust the locos to a moderate balance.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I guess on this topic, my tastes go to the extreme.
.
NONE IS MORE!
I hate sound. It is very irritating to me. I prefer to have my favorite music cranked to 8 while doing hobby stuff. Maybe this is because I have worked around heavy equipment my entire life, and I just do not want to hear it anymore.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I don't care for steam sounds at all, as none of them sound convincing to me. Some diesel sounds are quite realistic, but at most layouts I've visited, the sound is much too loud.
Like Kevin, I don't have sound (DC layout) and after almost 40 years in a steel mill, I've had pretty-much all of the industrial sounds I'll ever need, including lots of diesels - three were assigned to our mill alone!I do like my music loud, though, and I'm not hard of hearing. I prefer it at 11, cuz, you know, it's louder than 10, isn't it?
Wayne
doctorwayneI don't care for steam sounds at all, as none of them sound convincing to me.
Well, that´s a statement I don´t sign in for!
Some time ago, I had the chance to visit a nice 1/32 (1 gauge) layout with a couple of smoking steam engines, making a heck of a noise! The tenders are big enough for a decent- sized speaker enabling you to actually "feel" the sound! Put two of those on your layout and you get a terrific din!
Totally agree. The default many come with the volume at max is WAY too loud to be prototypical. Trains are loud, yes, but not from 10 miles away. If your layout is supposed to be representing a large distance, you shouldn't hear the sound of one loco throughout the room. Only when it passes by where you are watching. If I'm on the other side of the room 25 feet away working at what is supposed to be 4 towns away, I shouldn't be able to say oh hey, Joe's blowing for the crossing over there in town 1.
I hear trains clearly, but muffled - and I'm only about 1/4 mile from the tracks. Rarely hear prime movers, just the horns at the crossing. If it's quiet out, no cars driving by, and the train is going the right way, I can hear them throttle up for the slight grade.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy, my feelings exactly. I enjoy hearing trains at a distance. I enjoy hearing an approaching train. The crescendo, then decrescendo of this massive moving behemoth. The doppler-effect of it's whistle or horn.
Sir Madog doctorwayne I don't care for steam sounds at all, as none of them sound convincing to me. Well, that´s a statement I don´t sign in for! Some time ago, I had the chance to visit a nice 1/32 (1 gauge) layout with a couple of smoking steam engines, making a heck of a noise! The tenders are big enough for a decent- sized speaker enabling you to actually "feel" the sound! Put two of those on your layout and you get a terrific din!
doctorwayne I don't care for steam sounds at all, as none of them sound convincing to me.
I will repeat again, in large scales, were the viewer is in a more "intimate" setting with the train, sound works better and is more effective, and of course sounds better because of larger speakers.
But in small scales, were the viewer is typically 200, 300, or even much farther away in "scale" feet, sound is completely unrealistic, too loud, and generally of poor sound quality.
I live near the Northeast Corridor, I see trains every day.....from 300', 800', etc.
You hear very little of the engine prime mover sounds. You mainly hear the horns and the track noise.
Still in HO, still no onboard sound.......
My metal wheels make a nice track noise similar to what I hear every day. And a few layout based horn/whistle/bell systems can fill in the rest.
Sheldon
I love my sound engines, which is most of them, but I reduce the master volume to about half. The exception is a trolley with one of the early Digitrax sound-only decoders, which can barely be heard even at full volume. The decoder itself seems to have very little output power, and the speaker is tiny as it has to fit in a trolley.
Those engines with shutdown capability get shut down when not in use, and I've got kill switches on all the stall tracks around the turntable. Several of my yard tracks are reached by power-routing turnouts, so they can be shut off, too, and the "active staging" yard behind the passenger station also has kill switches, as do the tracks in my new hidden staging.
Typically, I'm only running one train and maybe doing some switching or getting a train ready to go, so those are the only engines I want to hear.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley I love my sound engines, which is most of them, but I reduce the master volume to about half. The exception is a trolley with one of the early Digitrax sound-only decoders, which can barely be heard even at full volume. The decoder itself seems to have very little output power, and the speaker is tiny as it has to fit in a trolley. Those engines with shutdown capability get shut down when not in use, and I've got kill switches on all the stall tracks around the turntable. Several of my yard tracks are reached by power-routing turnouts, so they can be shut off, too, and the "active staging" yard behind the passenger station also has kill switches, as do the tracks in my new hidden staging. Typically, I'm only running one train and maybe doing some switching or getting a train ready to go, so those are the only engines I want to hear.
I will say, that if you are ONLY running one train at a time, sound can be fun and effective in any scale.
But on large to medium HO layouts with multiple trains/operators, I find several of those things going at once very annoying.
The particular one thing I have problems with, with music as well as train sounds, is distortion. Far too many of the small speakers involved with sound have distortion. It gets worse at higher volumes so I second the motion about turning down the volume. Most radios and TV also distort horribly at high volumes.
Sound involves moving air and there is just a limit to what those tiny speakers in locomotives can do to move air. Deep bass is essentially out of the picture, at least bass as I use the word (i used to review classical recordings for Fanfare magazine and have performed in five different symphony orchestras).
I think the idea (advocated by Lance Mindheim among others) of externally created sound which nonetheless captures the sense of movement of a train is worth developing - the technology is all there, nothing new needs to be developed.
But we do need to decide what it is we are trying to capture - do we seek the full throated roar that you hear and feel in the cab, or close by trackside? Or the considerably reduced noise level that we would hear if we are hundreds of feet from the real train as we are hundreds of scale feet away from our model trains? Those are two very different experiences.
Dave Nelson
25% volume level for the prime mover and all other sounds except the horn and bell, which are set at about 50%. Its probably unrealistic but I like to blast the the horn. Its one of the sounds that onboard sound locos do very well, IMO.
Turbos get turned to 0% since there is already an abundanced of high frequency noises eminating from the speaker. Turbo whine is not needed.
Despite being popular, or the most technologically advanced, or the most "realistic" sounding; some sound decoders still suffer from BEMF buzz.....otherwise....I'd turn the sound down lower than 25%, but the buzz shows through if I do.
I run a switching layout, so I don't run long enough trains at high enough speeds to where wheel noise can drown out unwanted decoder noises.
- Douglas
dknelson The particular one thing I have problems with, with music as well as train sounds, is distortion. Far too many of the small speakers involved with sound have distortion. It gets worse at higher volumes so I second the motion about turning down the volume. Most radios and TV also distort horribly at high volumes. Sound involves moving air and there is just a limit to what those tiny speakers in locomotives can do to move air. Deep bass is essentially out of the picture, at least bass as I use the word (i used to review classical recordings for Fanfare magazine and have performed in five different symphony orchestras). I think the idea (advocated by Lance Mindheim among others) of externally created sound which nonetheless captures the sense of movement of a train is worth developing - the technology is all there, nothing new needs to be developed. But we do need to decide what it is we are trying to capture - do we seek the full throated roar that you hear and feel in the cab, or close by trackside? Or the considerably reduced noise level that we would hear if we are hundreds of feet from the real train as we are hundreds of scale feet away from our model trains? Those are two very different experiences. Dave Nelson
Great points Dave, I have also often commented about the poor fidelity of the small speakers, not something my ears will really tollerate being a HiFi speaker designer in the past......
Lance spoke about the headphone idea, maybe nice for a lone operator to get that "in the cab" feel, but personally playing engineer is not even my top operational activity, so that leaves me cold...and it's pretty anti social.......not much good for open houses, guests.
Rolling Thunder and other similar technologies are already out there and will no doubt expand and find a following, but like DCC itself, sound still only holds a portion of the market. Every casual survey on this forum only puts sound "lovers" at slightly above 50%.
That brings up my primary beef with Tsunami decoders, and the new ones aren't much better. No matter how much you play around with the equalizer and all the other extra goodies they like to tout, the horn is never loud. On a real loco, they could be lugging up a hill in Run 8, but when they hit the horn, you hear the horn. The real problem probably isn't the decoder, it's the mixing done on the audi recordings. More cowbell? No, more HORN.
I haven't had one sound decode rout of the box have the proper mix, and almost all of them come with the master volume at full blast, another peeve. But at least on others you can turn down the main volume, turn down the prime mover and bell, and crank up the horn.
rrinker That brings up my primary beef with Tsunami decoders, and the new ones aren't much better. No matter how much you play around with the equalizer and all the other extra goodies they like to tout, the horn is never loud. On a real loco, they could be lugging up a hill in Run 8, but when they hit the horn, you hear the horn. The real problem probably isn't the decoder, it's the mixing done on the audi recordings. More cowbell? No, more HORN. I haven't had one sound decode rout of the box have the proper mix, and almost all of them come with the master volume at full blast, another peeve. But at least on others you can turn down the main volume, turn down the prime mover and bell, and crank up the horn. --Randy
My advice to Soundtraxx and maybe all others: Whilst in the "sound mixing studio", decrease the turbo loudness, increase the horn.
I agree, adjusting the equalizer isn't effective, IMO.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Sir Madog doctorwayne I don't care for steam sounds at all, as none of them sound convincing to me. Well, that´s a statement I don´t sign in for! Some time ago, I had the chance to visit a nice 1/32 (1 gauge) layout with a couple of smoking steam engines, making a heck of a noise! The tenders are big enough for a decent- sized speaker enabling you to actually "feel" the sound! Put two of those on your layout and you get a terrific din! I will repeat again, in large scales, were the viewer is in a more "intimate" setting with the train, sound works better and is more effective, and of course sounds better because of larger speakers. But in small scales, were the viewer is typically 200, 300, or even much farther away in "scale" feet, sound is completely unrealistic, too loud, and generally of poor sound quality. I live near the Northeast Corridor, I see trains every day.....from 300', 800', etc. You hear very little of the engine prime mover sounds. You mainly hear the horns and the track noise. Still in HO, still no onboard sound....... My metal wheels make a nice track noise similar to what I hear every day. And a few layout based horn/whistle/bell systems can fill in the rest. Sheldon
I live about the same distance from the tracks through Alexandria and I do hear the throb of the engines, but mainly at night.
Conversely, my office is about 90 feet from tracks in downtown DC and I can't hear a thing all day long.
I suppose the Staten Island Railroad doesn't qualify as sound in many people's books here because its all electric but I hear the rumble of the train two blocks away from me.
As to the layout I run mostly silently because I run late at night. Because my switching layout is small I use that MRC symphony 77 the wife bought me for whistles and bells
Joe Staten Island West
I love sound! I think it adds a dimension which had previously been missing! For the same reason I also like smoking - engines, that is!
But...
Generic sounds emitted from tiny cube speakers don´t do the job, just as a rather thin plume of smoke doesn´t do it either. While attempts to introduce "dynamic smoke" into HO scale failed in my opinion, sound features are starting to head in the right direction.
If I had the necessary funds and space, my choice would be 1/32 scale (1 gauge). Look at the two following vids and you understand why...
1. Two Deutsche Bundesbahn class 50 2-10-0 heavy freight locomotives
2. Deutsche Bundesbahn class V 60 0-6-0 Diesel-hydraulic switcher starting up
I don´t have the space for even the smallest of all layouts in that scale, nor do I have the required $$,$$$ for it. As long as I have to stay in HO scale, my trains will be silent and non-smoking.
Hi Ulrich:
I love sound too, but I have to disagree (politely of course) with two things.
First, I think that I get pretty good sound out of my 'sugar cube' speakers. I turn the volume way down to reduce the distortion and the depth of sound that I get is more than satisfactory, at least for me.
Second, I'm sorry but I have seen many attempts at modelling realistic smoke from steam engines but IMHO nothing even comes close to the real thing. A steam locomotive under heavy load belches huge plumes of dense black smoke. None of the models I have seen, including your 1/32 scale examples, even come close to the real thing under load. That's probably a good thing. If they did your layout room would be thick with smoke in a few minutes, and you would need a respirator, and I can't imagine what deposits would be left on the layout.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade Ulrich. Just my opinions.
All the best!!
By the way, I can commiserate with your insomnia. I went for coffee yesterday morning with a good friend. I had four coffees! I don't drink coffee very often but they were tasting good. Then, after the train club meeting last night I went out with the guys and had two more coffees. Now it's 8:30 in the morning, I have been up all night, and I'm still bouncing off the walls!
hon30critterA steam locomotive under heavy load belches huge plumes of dense black smoke
Any engine driver in Germany during the good old days would have been fined for letting his loco belch big black clouds of smoke! The rule was to keep a "clean stack", at least in populated areas (there are hardly any not populated areas in my country). The trick was to frequently clean the flues with a shovel full of sand in the firebox, keeping an evenly burning fire and a careful handling of the blower.
I have to admit that it didn´t always work.
hon30critterI'm not trying to rain on your parade Ulrich. Just my opinions.
Life would be boring if we all would agree at all times!
One other thing that I did sound wise is that I installed a micro bluetooth speaker behind the drive in screen on my layout I can then play movie sounds or music at the drive inn.