cdavis2747 ATLANTIC CENTRAL I have detection, signals, CTC, ATC, working interlockings, local tower and CTC turnout route control, walk around DC radio throttles....all for way less cost than any solid state/computer based system I have seen yet. Sheldon, I'd be curious to know how you did all that!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I have detection, signals, CTC, ATC, working interlockings, local tower and CTC turnout route control, walk around DC radio throttles....all for way less cost than any solid state/computer based system I have seen yet.
Sheldon, I'd be curious to know how you did all that!
Well, it is mostly done with with ice cube relays, and that old fashioned stuff called wire........
And it relies on the same kind of circuits that ran machinery, and railroad signal circuits for many decades before solid state devices or computers.
The whole system intergrates detection, signaling, CTC, advanced block control, turnout route control with Aristo Craft wireless radio throttles.
The details cannot be explained in 10 minutes, but the parts required are considerably less expensive than any of the computer or solid state solutions to provide the same or similar features.
Each turnout requires a relay, each block requires a detector and a relay panel of 8 relays. Four more relays per block adds some of the advanced features, like directional occupancy indications and interlocking of turnouts in occupied blocks.
User inputs for dispatcher panels and tower panels are LED lighted pushbuttons right in the track diagram for turnout control.
With a dispatcher on duty, the engineers experiance is just like DCC, control your train, obey the signals, nothing else to do. Without a dispatcher, engineers can walk with their trains and set routes and assign throttles at local tower panels as they move around the layout with their wireless throttle.
I use simplified signaling and CTC, with all my signals being absolute or interlocking signals, but with one more relay per block, it can be expanded to full three color permissive block signals and full interlocking signals.
Automatic Train Control is a free feature, a result of not using common rail wiring and of having a seperate power supply for each throttle. Careful placement of gaps, and overlaping sections between blocks, prevents a train from overrunning its assigned trackage. Run a red signal, your train goes into emergency stop.
The relays only cost $3 new, and can be had surplus for as little $0.50 each, nos. Cat5 cable carries the control signals from planels to relay boards. Wireless throttle base units are wired to a buss, which then allows block selector relay banks to connect the correct track sections based on the dispatcher or tower panel inputs.
Detectors and hard logic through turnout relays provides interlocking signaling and approach signaling, which is repeated on the dispatchers panel. He knows where every train is, which way it is moving, how every turnout route is set, and which signals are green for which trains.
Turnouts and cab assignment have redundant controls at the CTC panel and local tower panels.
Each of eight wireless throttles has its own 4 amp power supply. The relays and signal system have their own dual voltage pwer supply.
The detectors are Dallee inductive detectors with a keep alive circuit to detect stopped trains.
Again, much of it pretty much the same way the prototype did it in 1950.
There you go,
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALTrue enough, but I'm waiting to see the benifit of it or any central network system for a model railroad.
Fast clock synchronized layout lighting, as well as fast clock synchronized tide, ie ship that moves up and down (not a thing yet, but Ive suggested it to the working group). Not sure how to make fake water change height 1-2", the ship is the easy part..
ATLANTIC CENTRALI have detection, signals, CTC, ATC, working interlockings, local tower and CTC turnout route control, walk around DC radio throttles....all for way less cost than any solid state/computer based system I have seen yet.
cdavis2747 ATSFGuy If you're talking about computers, there are different types of bus networks Yes, I was aware of that - I designed and built my own network about 10 years ago and am still using it. My question was why the article said nothing about it as a thing of the future, and secondarily why it appeared so little progress was made on the NMRA bus product. I don't think this is just for DCC, as some have said. I use mine for signals, train detection, turnout control, routing, automation, control panels, and lighting controls.
ATSFGuy If you're talking about computers, there are different types of bus networks
Yes, I was aware of that - I designed and built my own network about 10 years ago and am still using it. My question was why the article said nothing about it as a thing of the future, and secondarily why it appeared so little progress was made on the NMRA bus product.
I don't think this is just for DCC, as some have said. I use mine for signals, train detection, turnout control, routing, automation, control panels, and lighting controls.
True enough, but I'm waiting to see the benifit of it or any central network system for a model railroad.
I have detection, signals, CTC, ATC, working interlockings, local tower and CTC turnout route control, walk around DC radio throttles....all for way less cost than any solid state/computer based system I have seen yet.
fieryturbo cdavis2747 Where is the layout control bus? It's at this site, still undergoing review: http://openlcb.org/
cdavis2747 Where is the layout control bus?
Where is the layout control bus?
It's at this site, still undergoing review: http://openlcb.org/
Except the approved standards, which are here:
http://www.nmra.org/index-nmra-standards-and-recommended-practices
S 9.7.x
Also the most recent post on http://openlcb.org/ says the standards where approved by the NMRA board of directors. So not really still under review.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
ATSFGuyIf you're talking about computers, there are different types of bus networks
Are you using your computer to run the layout?
If you're talking about computers, there are different types of bus networks
Here are a few;
Bus network
Linear network
Star network
Ring network
Mesh network
ATLANTIC CENTRALLCC only appeals to DCC users
It may only appeal to DCC users, but it is compatable will all types of track power and any manufacturer.
BMMECNYC cdavis2747 In the recent issue, there was an article about the future of model railroading. According to the authors blog post (second hand, I have not read it myself) that article was written 2 years ago. cdavis2747 I was suprised to see no mention of the layout control bus in the future. The standards were likely not approved at the time the article was being written. cdavis2747 I'm not sure where the NMRA effort has gone at this point, and some of the small companies actually producing something seem to have gone by the wayside. The standards are approved. S9.7.x RR-Circuits is currently the only manufacturer with products on the market (the last I checked). http://www.rr-cirkits.com/ Other manufacturers may have products in development. Railstars I believe is who you are speaking of. They have moved on to other things. cdavis2747 Any thoughts out there? I own a full set of boards with which I will be installing signaling on my model railroad modules. I am waiting on the club at this point to finish with their standards and approve them so that I can install the system. LCC video below. http://openlcb.org/ http://www.nmra.org/index-nmra-standards-and-recommended-practices DCC took a long time to gain market share (20+ something years). LCC has existed as a standard for less than 2 years. Give it time.
cdavis2747 In the recent issue, there was an article about the future of model railroading.
According to the authors blog post (second hand, I have not read it myself) that article was written 2 years ago.
cdavis2747 I was suprised to see no mention of the layout control bus in the future.
The standards were likely not approved at the time the article was being written.
cdavis2747 I'm not sure where the NMRA effort has gone at this point, and some of the small companies actually producing something seem to have gone by the wayside.
The standards are approved. S9.7.x
RR-Circuits is currently the only manufacturer with products on the market (the last I checked). http://www.rr-cirkits.com/
Other manufacturers may have products in development.
Railstars I believe is who you are speaking of. They have moved on to other things.
cdavis2747 Any thoughts out there?
I own a full set of boards with which I will be installing signaling on my model railroad modules. I am waiting on the club at this point to finish with their standards and approve them so that I can install the system.
LCC video below.
http://openlcb.org/
DCC took a long time to gain market share (20+ something years). LCC has existed as a standard for less than 2 years. Give it time.
And keep this in mind, signaling, CTC, automation are all "minority" interests in this hobby. LCC only appeals to DCC users, which still only make up about 50-60% of HO and N scale modelers, and much fewer in other scales.
So how big is the potential market?
My signals and CTC on my DC layout work just fine with Dallee detectors and a few simple relays.......
cdavis2747In the recent issue, there was an article about the future of model railroading.
cdavis2747I was suprised to see no mention of the layout control bus in the future.
cdavis2747Any thoughts out there?
Oh, THAT kind of bus. Sorry, I'm on the wrong page as usual...
I know what you are asking, though. I have not heard much about it lately either.
http://www.nmra.org/news/facts-about-lcc-new-layout-command-control-standard-nmra
Ed
In the recent issue, there was an article about the future of model railroading. I was suprised to see no mention of the layout control bus in the future. I'm not sure where the NMRA effort has gone at this point, and some of the small companies actually producing something seem to have gone by the wayside. Any thoughts out there?