In cab cameras

[darth9x9]

I looked at the same system mentioned above by robengland. It appears to be the leader in mini-cams. If you run DCC, the camera is always charging from the rails which a big step forward. Since I only have a few modules, I can't justify buying one just yet but I foresee one in my future.

[robengland]

You have to see it to believe it. Some comments:

I have a camera I sourced from Japan. Works great under natural light or fluoro but the colour all washes out under incandescent. the manufacturer says they can provide an incandescent-compliant version if you request it at purchase time.

It works fine even with the receiver plugged into the telly upstairs. The odd flicker but nothing much. I use DCC, nickelsilver rail, and live in a semi-rural suburb. The camera has a built-in rechargable battery that I think suppresses most track-power glitches.

The camera is small enough to fit into a powered diesel, so long as you haven't already used up all the space with Soundtraxx (and if you are in another room, who needs sound any more?)

I believe a significant number of us will be operating trains from another room or from a booth, as per the story above. This will be the next big step in realism (what's realistic about driving a loco while hovering 300 feet above it?). To do this, I believe we need some things:
- multichannel transmitters and multiple in-cab cameras, at least one forward and one backward
- two-man crews: someone will still need to be brakeman and follow the train for manual switches, coupling and uncoupling, the ineveitable derailments etc. Just like the real thing.
- broader curves. If real trains ran at the speeds we do round the radii we do, they'd have more rear-enders too. We don't get realistic visibility ahead on tight curves

[mcouvillion]

Last night I operated my engine with the camera from the TV in the room adjacent to the train room. One of the regulars is a former SP engineer. One look and he said "Whoa, I've seen this before!". He was amazed at how true to life the camera made the railroad. He even suggested that if we start operating from that perspective that we need to get a rule book, 'cause we usually break a bunch of them. I was following a train and had a clear indication from the semaphore. I looked away for a second and WHAM, I ran up on a caboose. Fortunately, I didn't hit it very hard. The depth of field made it look like it was 100 yards away, when in actuallity it was only about 18 inches away. I physically went to look at the accident site and realized that the trains were very close to each other, but they appear very far away. Passing other trains on sidings or through the bridges is an experience!

The track-powered camera has a few problems with getting enough voltage all of the time and occasional interference. This is DCC with, I think, 12 - 14 volts to the rails. There were several places where the engine stopped every time it passed. The engine's wheel were cleaned, but the track needed a good cleaning and that won't happen for a while. I then retired the engine and used a battery-powered camera in a gondola. The picture was much clearer with very little interference. The voltage was 18VDC. Just like riding on the rolling stock!

We'll be recording the railroad from the engine soon. Hopefully, we can post it on the web so that all can see.


Mark C.

[mcouvillion]

Teffy replied to one of the other threads on cameras in the cab. Here are his comments:


“Mark brought the camera to our Tuesday night group. Before long all of us are in the other room watching the TV and seeing the scenery from a "new" angle. We were controlling the train with a Digitrax radio control throttle. It showed that the ground slopes next to the rail that looked very good are really very steep when viewed from the "cab". It was just like standing in the vestabule of a passenger car and watching the loco two cars forward.

It is a very nice experience

Bob”



Mark C.

[mcouvillion]

Jock Ellis,

I have installed a TC-9 color pinhole video camera in an Athearn Trainmaster behind the lower headlight opening. From the outside, there is no visible difference from a stock engine. From the camera perspective, it opens a whole new world to operation. Just last night, I permanently installed the TC-100 antenna on the ceiling of the layout room where I can run it. The antenna location gives essentially 100% line-of-sight from the engine anywhere on the layout, so the interference is reduced significantly. I have learned that with this camera, the minimum voltage for clear pictures and good color is 10 volts. The camera is rated from 2 - 50 volts DC, AC, or DCC. I have run it on DC and when the engine is running at the speed that looks normal from the engineer's perspective, there is just not enough voltage to properly power the camera from the track. Running the voltage up to get a good picture results in "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride" from the engineer's seat. DCC or fixed battery power is the only way to go. On fixed batteries, I now use two 9 volt batteries in series for 18 volts. Even if the batteries are weak, they will still generate more than 10 volts. I have a second camera that will be installed in an Athearn AC44009W in the cab. I have already temporarily powered the camera from this location in the cab and the view is very realistic. I use this camera in gondolas to give the "hobo's eye view" of the railroad. Everyone who has seen it has been fascinated.

We set up an operator's station last night in a room adjacent to the train room, such that the engineer will only see what the camera sees. He has Loconet access and can communicate with his brakeman/conductor and the dispatcher by radio. He must obey the signal system. When I neared finishing the installation, there were 10 guys in the train room running trains. Once the camera was operating and the TV was on, there were 8 guys in front of the TV watching how realistic it looked and taking their turns operating. Regarding scenery, even minimal scenery looks good through the camera. It is amazing how realistic the buildings, cars, people, passing trains, sidings, switchstands, etc. look from that view. Yes, you can see giants in the background, but they are the reality check. You will be truly amazed.

I don't know if it is a passing fad or not. I think that it is as close as I am ever going to get to actually running a diesel or steam locomotive with a real cab view. I think my train buddies who have seen it will agree. Teffy was there last night. If he picks up this thread, let's see what he has to say.

Mark C.

[pedromorgan]

those of you that are having problems with their cameras, have you tried some basic video supression? even just try putting a small disc capacitor across the motor. this may well sort it out.

peter (a broadcast engineer)

[Anonymous]

The one at my LHS is advertised to work at 100', but it may work a little bit farther out than that. You'll just have to live with the short battery life, but the effect is amazing.

Greg

[Anonymous]

Did you see the new train camera setup offered at Tony's? I was kinda amazed by the sample video they show.

On Tony's web site, under "News" there is a link.

Jim

[Anonymous]

I have a cab mounted camera, cost me about $300 bucks several years ago. The biggest problem is the interference when the train is moving. When the train is stopped, the picture looks great, but as soon as it starts moving, the quality of the picture suffers. From what I saw at the Hobby show in Chicago this year, the newer systems still have the same problem. It is fun to see your layout from a scale perspective, but the quality of the picture is so bad that you will tire of it quickly. I am planning to try another one in a few years when they get the bugs worked out.

[jockellis]

Thanks for the posts. Since it only costs about a hundred bucks - and I've wasted far more that that on things - I may try it out, mounting one on a junker engine just to see what happens.
Jock Ellis

[willy6]

Give it 2-3 years, just like when digital watches came out, they will have worked out the bugs and they will be dirt cheap.

[cacole]

Several companies now make wireless color video cameras that can be mounted on flatcars or in a dummy locomotive. Look through the advertisements in Model Railroader.

The cameras I have seen all suffer from the same problem -- extremely limited range and limited battery life. Most use a 9 Volt battery, which usually provides less than 15-20 minutes of operation. Because of the frequencies involved, their range is limited to only a few feet, and they are very susceptible to interference.

On one camera company's Web site they have a demonstration video that has electrical interference streaks in the picture, and frequent cuts where they have had to go back and delete bad picture segments.

When you can get these cameras to work, the resulting picture certainly points out deficiencies in your scenery work, because there's nothing like seeing a layout from track level, but I personally consider these a just a novelty item until the technology improves.

[jockellis]

Has anyone installed a camera in the cab of a locomotive? How do you like it? Was it hard? Is it exciting to watch your locomotive's progress from the viewpoint of an engineer?
Jock Ellis