SOUTHERN RAILWAY Paint Scheme

[AntonioFP45]

Southern Railway has always used attractive paint schemes but I'm confused on one.

During the 70s (I think) I remember seeing pictures of modern, Southern Railway locomotives in both the Green and White scheme and the Black and White scheme.

(Was it black or a very dark green? I think railfans nicknamed it the "Tuxedo Scheme").

Which scheme replaced which?

Or were they used simultaneously on certain locomotives. I noticed the the E units only had the Green and White.

Since I'm modeling SCL in the late 60s-early 70s, I thought that it would be appropriate to have a couple of Southern units also as both railroads locomotives could be found on each other's lines from time to time.

I especially like how those high nosed EMDs looked in the Tuxedo scheme.

Thanks!

[tstage]

Antonio,

Sorry I can't give you any input. You might try posting this over on the 'Prototype information for the modeler' forum also? Just a suggestion....

Tom

[willy6]

Antonio, Did you try the "Historical Societies" link on this forum? It will take you right to Southern Railway.

[Virginian]

All I know is that is was black or green. And Southern green was green, there was no mistaking it for black.

[ozzy01]

Try www.sourwy.railfan.net It's a Southern
Railway modeling site.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ozzy01

Try www.sourwy.railfan.net It's a Southern
Railway modeling site.

Yeah, I've gotten alot of info out of that site.

Short answer is that the "Tuxedo" paint scheme uses what they call "Tuxedo Black". It is not a dark green, it is pure black.

There were also green GP7/9s and Alco RSes, and they also brought it back for a few GP60s. Unless I'm mistaken, the black scheme (with some minor detail differences) has been the main scheme from dieselization to NS. I don't believe that the green scheme was intended to replace the black scheme altogether.

---jps

[cjcrescent]

Srr diesel scheme was originally green and white. It stayed this way until delivery of the SD-24's which were delivered in the new tuxedo scheme. During the 1960's, all locomotives were re-painted into the tux as they went through major overhauls. Of course not all locos could be repainted all at once so this process took several years. So you could still see Srr locos in green up to at least 1964-65. Their locos all stayed in the tuxedo, including the passenger E units, until Claytor repainted the E-8's back into the green and white for the revitalized Crescent Limited. The E-8's stayed green until Srr gave the Crescent to Amtrack in 1979.

[ozzy01]

An update, www.sourwy.railfan.net is being upgraded so I thought I'd let you know before going there.

[Anonymous]

Norfolk Southern operates a GP59 in the Southern Green and White scheme. It's a beautiful machine.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjcrescent

Srr diesel scheme was originally green and white. It stayed this way until delivery of the SD-24's which were delivered in the new tuxedo scheme. During the 1960's, all locomotives were re-painted into the tux as they went through major overhauls. Of course not all locos could be repainted all at once so this process took several years. So you could still see Srr locos in green up to at least 1964-65...

I stand corrected about the green being the main paint scheme. But if I remember correctly, there was a black scheme afore the green scheme.

---jps

[jrbernier]

The 'green' paint scheme came first. Early F's GP's and RS's were delivered in the green paint scheme. It was replaced by the 'Tuxedo' black scheme in the 50's. . In the 1970's Southern changed the passenger engines back to the green paint scheme. Also a 'special' engine(that GP59) was done in Southern green.

Jim

[BRAKIE]

Will this site help?

http://southern-railway.railfan.net/sry/

[Anonymous]

This is a brief summary of Southern Diesel paint schemes:

1940s-1949 EMD F units in Black/Imitation Aluminum with Gold separator stripe running beneath lower side step, Passenger units ( EMD E, F and Alco DL-109/110) Green/Imitation Aluminum with Gold separator stripe. The imitation Aluminum was used for an additional side band and 2/3 of the roof. Switchers (EMD and ALCO) Black with Imitation Aluminum lettering.

1949- ~1960. An order of F-7s were delivered with new simplified green/initation aluminum scheme (gold stripe runs above lower side step). All cab units, passenger and freight repainted in this scheme. Switchers and Road switchers (GPs, SDs and RS) receiver green/ imitation aluminum scheme with gold stripe running above the top of the hood doors.

~1960-1982 Tuxcedo scheme-Black/ imitation aluminum with gold separator side on all units. Nose heralds were removed but were replaced with new design beginning in early 1970s. Passenger units (E-8 and FP-7) repainted in green/ imitation aluminum with gold separator stripe in early 1970s.

Hope that this helps sort it out for you.

[AntonioFP45]

Guys, Brakie, RStroupe

Thanks for your valueable input!

I've also added the links you've provided to "My Favorites" as it's great reference material.

Thanks again, everyone![:)][:D][8D][;)][8)][C):-)][tup]

[waltersrails]

i bellevie southern deisels where black scheme most any way. www.railpictures.net
is a good place to search engines.

http://ztrainman.tripod.com/

[dekemd]

The GP59 in the green and white is the 4610. Railpictures.net has several pictures of it.

[AntonioFP45]

Yes, DEKEmd,

I saw the photos. It's nice they this was done to the Geep as well as E units #6900 and 6901, which I think are in museums.

Despite its shortcomings, Southern was a railroad with class!

[rexhea]

Antonio, try this site for excellent information on Southern paint jobs.
http://www.hosam.com/srr/srr.html

REX

[AntonioFP45]

Thank you Rex!

I've saved it to "My Favorites" folder.

Cheers.

[dekemd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Yes, DEKEmd,

I saw the photos. It's nice they this was done to the Geep as well as E units #6900 and 6901, which I think are in museums.

Despite its shortcomings, Southern was a railroad with class!

The E units are at the North Carolina Transpostation Museum in Spencer, NC. At their last Rail Days Event, Norfolk Southern brought the 4610 and had it on display. If you think the pictures look good you should see it in person.

[AntonioFP45]

Dek,

I had read that 6901 was in North Carolina, but I thought that #6900 was in a museum in Atlanta, Georgia. I've been hoping that on my next trip to Georgia I can find that museum and take some photos. I'm a big fan of E units.

10-4.

[dave9999]

Antonio,
I was thinking about this topic yesterday and how timely it was...
Me and Nancy just discussed my Christmas present... a Broadway Limited E unit
in Southern black and white. I was looking at it in the LHS on Monday. This will be my
third Southern E unit(fourth if you count the B unit)... but the only one in the black and white scheme.

I have always liked the green and white scheme, but the black and white will make
a nice addition. I have the QSI system in a P2K and it sounds great. I assume that
the BLI will sound just as good.

BTW, I still haven't gotten a Tsunami... been waiting for the dust to settle. Dave

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Dave!

I feel like you and I are kindred spirits as we were on this forum a year ago (2004)replying to Tsunami and MTH topics,......... and dodging the flame torpedoes in the process!!

That's great that you'r getting a "Tuxedo" E unit. Will look sharp on your trains. I'm assuming you're modeling the Southern Crescent. I'm hoping to model it once I finish building up my SCL passenger car fleet. One nice aspect of the prototype Crescent is that there are loads and loads of photos on the web of this train.

Are you getting the BLI E8? In case you are, from what I've read, it's a winner, just like the E7. The prime mover sounds are accurate as well. Even though the powerplants were 567s, EMD made electrical and mechanical upgrades to the E8 from the E7 that changed the character of the sound slightly. QSI captured it well for the E8.

I understand what you mean about the dust settling from the Tsunami. I do hope that the diesel version will be offered for the $80 range like the current steam version.

High Greens.

[rexhea]

Antonio/Dave
I too await the arrival of the Diesel Tsunami. If it has the incredible sounds of the steam, it will be a hit. The only complaint I have about the QSI is I have 1, E6 and 3, E7's and they all sound the same. I don't know if the upgrades have made any improvement on this, but selectable horns would be a great start.
I am still surprised that other than my thread a while back, there hasn't been any chatter about the Tsunami.
(Hope I don't sound like a saleman[:D])

REX

[lonewoof]

FYI: Southern FP7 #6133 and E8 # 6900 are at the NC Transportation Museum at Spencer. Both in green / im. aluminum. There's also a Southern GP30 in black / im. aluminum, and an ACL E3, #501, in purple / silver.
E8 #6901 (green / im. alum) is at the Southeastern Railway Museum at Duluth, GA.

Bunch of other steam / diesel (some operating) at both museums.

[AntonioFP45]

Lonewoof,

Thanks for that tip! If I'm not mistaken, Duluth is not too far from Atlanta.

Rex,

Re: Tsunami, I think it hasn't been brought up for a while due to all the chatter generated about it not being ready (yes, yours truly was guilty of contributing).

Now that a "Tsunami" is on the market, and the feedback from a few of the users has been positive, the fanfare has "mellowed a bit". Even though the diesel Tsunami is not on the market yet, the presence of the steamer version seems to reassure that a diesel Tsunami is on its way.

The only thing I find strange is that this "Steamer" Tsunami has only 3 flavors. Yet, 2 years ago we read info indicating that the Tsunami would include sound for the Southern Pacific GS-4. What happened? The GS-4 uses a steamboat style whistle, which is not offered in any of the 3 current Tsunami versions.

I certainly hope that the at least with the diesel version that all of the horn offerings from before will still be available., like the S3, K5, and M5.

[rexhea]

Antonio,
Not all the steam Tsunami's have been released. There are 3 more versions to come out. They are all listed on the their Web site.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/products/dcc/price.htm

REX

[AntonioFP45]

Whoops!

I owe Soundtraxx an apology! There's the GS-4 on the list! Even includes the horn.

Now I understand: 3 GROUPS of locomotives with 8 types of whistles.

I stand corrected.

[dekemd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lonewoof

FYI: Southern FP7 #6133 and E8 # 6900 are at the NC Transportation Museum at Spencer. Both in green / im. aluminum. There's also a Southern GP30 in black / im. aluminum, and an ACL E3, #501, in purple / silver.
E8 #6901 (green / im. alum) is at the Southeastern Railway Museum at Duluth, GA.

Bunch of other steam / diesel (some operating) at both museums.

I stand corrected on both E8s being in NC. It hit me this morning that one was not an E8, but I could not remember what it was.

Thanks for the clarification lonewoof.

[Boin106]

Did Southern have any of their SD24's in the green paint scheme, or were they all black?

Tnx, Matt