Wow! I'm getting spoiled rotten with all these helpful tips and information on soldering! This is a great forum!
Thank you very much, Software Tools! I appreciate it.
And once again, thanks to everyone else.
Iain Rice and others have written numerous books on various aspects of model loco construction using brass. Titles include "Etched Loco Construction", "Realistic Railway Modelling: Steam Locomotives","Scratch-Building Model Railway Locomotives", "The 4mm Engine: A Scratchbuilder'sGuide ", etc.While these are primarily about steam locos, the techniques for working with brass are applicable to any sort of railway model.
A resistance soldering unit is certainly a worthwhile investment.... the fine tip American Beauty "tweezer" hand-piece is great for working with details on traction carbodies.
I recall that MR did a series of articles - way back when - 70's (?) on scratchbuilding a steam engine in brass. A big piece of it was devoted to the geomerty of making a tapered boiler, but I'd guess that soldering technique was covered as well.
Jim
Back in the 1960s and 70s, Bill Schopp had a monthly column in RMC where he would, essentially, kitbash brass locomotives. He had all manner of practical advice about how to remove unwanted details ("unsolder") without unsoldering the wanted details too. What I recall is that Schopp did not use a soldering iron or gun, rather rather a sort of electric soldering tweezers that put out very high heat, so that the work could be done quickly. That is the key. A Google search shows lots of soldering tweezers being sold today, but none look to me like what Schopp used.
The best single article I know on unsoldering and soldering details from a brass loco is "Superdetailing a steam locomotive" by James F. EuDaly in the July 1967 Model Railroader, and yeah I know that goes way back and is unlikely to be on your shelf (but IS in the all acess digital archive on this website). EuDaly used a propane torch, and the advice was to use a pencil tip in HO -- he himself worked in O scale. Bernz was the maker named. They are still around. Again the key was high heat in a limited area, so the work could go fast. He also mentioned to sequence the work from large areas to small so that the high heat needed for big parts would not loosen small details.
In the article itself EuDaly removes details which did not meet his standards from a Max Gray C&O 2-8-4, and fabricated or purchased improved parts (he was also a scratchbuilder of brass locomotives). It is an exceptionally interesting article with 7 pages of rather closely spaced type.
I once had to resolder a pilot which had snapped off a brass steam engine. I was needless to say sweating bullets about this. A cold damp cloth was wrapped around the boiler and cab but even so, I came dangerously close to unsoldering nearby details. It is not for the faint of heart. And I have to think there is some way to practice this skill on bits of brass before actually tackling the model, but have nothing specific to suggest.
Dave Nelson
To all of you, who answered my question about soldering brass model trains, a belated thank you! All of your replies will be useful.
And an extra thanks to Roger. I checked out the "highly recommended" soldering DVD from the PBL.com website and I ordered the DVD.
Thank you all once again for your input.
CentralGulfFor some reason, nobody else wanted the job. CG
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
You're welcome. Somewhere around here I have about half the parts I need to build mine. Right now they remain "in a box somewhere," misplaced from my last move.
Almost half a century ago (why do I feel old?), I was formally trained on resistance soldering. At that time I thought it was FM ('fantastic' magic). I never did get to use it on the job though.
However, for a few years I did get to use a multi-kilowatt watercooled inductive desoldering station now and then with absolutely no training. Fortunately, I didn't kill or injure anyone in the process (they usually ran when I showed up and I wore asbestos gloves myself), and only set about 25% of my repairable modules on fire in the process.
For some reason, nobody else wanted the job.
CG
CG:
Thanks for the link to the DIY resistance soldering unit. I'll have to study the instructions for a while before I can get up the courage to follow them.
There isn't a whole lot to a resistance soldering unit. There are instructions on building them on the Internet. Here is just one example:
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/solderer.pdf
You could probably save about half the price of a built unit if you buy carefully.
Hello again Dave,
I would love to contribute something to this forum that some of you can learn and benefit from but I haven't anything right now. It would make feel that I am giving something back for all the information and tips I've gotten from this forum. At this point and time I am just a collector - I've always been. I have 40-plus HO traction models (mostly Suydam and some MTS Imports brass). I also have some 'O' scale brass traction models. I love traction - that is why I am called TractionNut.
My models are mostly intact. But, there are several that have detail parts take have become loose or is threatening to become loose. I just want to secure some parts that are still hanging on and re-attach those that have completely separated from the models. There are a few models that have loose trolley hold-downs, loose truss rods at one end, loose underfloor components and I have one interurban trolley with a corner step that has completely separated from model, just to mention a few. I truly believe resistance soldering is the solution because the the soldering unit you've described, Dave, is really designed primarily for building brass models and requires a great deal of skill. Resistance soldering works best for repairing the models, not building them.
A resistance soldering unit may cost an arm and a leg, but I still want one. I won't be building brass models, just doing small repairs (or minor corrections). I know from the amount of soldering I'd be doing it won't justify the cost of such a unit. But, I've always felt that I have to learn to soldering and I want to learn - its part of the hobby. That is why I am looking for some form of literature that explains soldering a good deal, including the right way to prepare a brass model (stripping their clear coat and cleaning them) the right solder and soldering flux.
I've read the replies I've gotten so far and I'm pleased with the information from those replies. They will be most helpful - including the one from you!
I really have nothing at this time to show you, Dave, my brass collection is mostly unpainted, powered and intact. Only a handful of them need to be worked on, including my two Suydam PE 950 "Venice" cars.
Brass will heat quickly if it's clean - as mentioned, that means shiney. Use an iron of sufficient wattage to suit the job so that it provides the heat quickly, and protect any nearby soldered joints with a generous application of wadded, wet paper towel material.While a resistance soldering unit will do this work with little fuss, most jobs can be done with soldering irons of various wattages. I use 25-, 45-, 80-, and 200 watt irons, plus a 100 watt soldering gun and a propane plumber's torch for model work.
This locomotive...
...used all but the soldering gun:
It was also possible to solder together the stiles and curved rungs of the ladder (on the front corner of the tender) while the stiles were attached to the plastic tender...
A somewhat better photo showing the ladder:
Wayne
i recently tried removing some excess solder from a brass boxcab i recently bought. I have a relatively lightweight iron and was surprised that it was enough to heat the solder as well as the ladder it held. Took some time but I didn't need a heavy soldering gun.
I need to redo it but want to use a harder solder.
i'm encouraged. Need to reattach a part on another brass engine. I had worries that soldering brass required more heat and other parts might get loose if not done quickly.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
This PFM brass steamer came to me in poor shape. Walkways were falling off, the frame crossmembers had come unsoldered, and some other stuff.
At the time I had a couple of soldering guns and a Weller temp controled soldering station. None of these got hot enough. I had to go on E-bay to find a vintage Craftsman 200 watt soldering iron. The big iron has a big tip that holds enough heat to bring the joints up to soldering temperature dispite the heat draining off into the rest of the locomotive. Joints must be scrupulously clean, not a speck of tarnish, paint, grease, crud, anything. Clean means bright and shiny. Coming from the electronic trades, I use rosin flux, 'cause I have it and I am used to it. Acid flux probably works too, but that's some one else's story. Go with 60-40 tin lead solder, it melts at a lower temperature and gives a good strong joint. The 50-50 solder is only for plumbing and the lead free solder sucks.
Use some kind of jigs or clamps to hold the joint in position. Apply flux. Heat the joint until it is hot enough to melt the solder. You cannot get anywhere dropping hot solder onto cold work. Flow in enough solder to fill the joint. Then take the iron away, let the joint cool, and DON'T TOUCH IT until it is cool. If you disturb the solder while it is cooling you get a "cold" solder joint, looks frosty instead of shiny.
After all the soldering is done, try to get the flux off. It is acid and will keep eating the brass for years. Rosin flux used to clean off with freon, but they outlawed freon years ago on account of the ozone layer. MEK or alcohol is the best I know of now. Real acid flux washes off in water.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
oldline1PBL has a very explanatory DVD on the subject. It's pretty DRY but then so is the subject. Worth the money!
x2
I haven't seen it, but heard it's highly recommended among my narrowgauge buddies..
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
TractionNut:
Please show us the things you are working on. I have built a couple of brass HOn30 diesel switchers from scratch using N scale 4-6-0 drives for power. One is shown in my avatar. I loved doing the work but I only had a Weller gun and a pencil tip iron to work with. Keeping some of the assemblies from falling apart while I added bits to them was a challenge to say the least. Lots of wet paper towels were sacrificed in the effort. I also used my small needle nosed pliers with an elastic around the handle as heat sinks. Both worked pretty well but some things required several attempts as well as some cursing!!! Many times I have contemplated buying a resistance soldering unit but I couldn't justify the price for the amount of work I was doing.
So, show us your stuff, and teach us as you learn!
Cheers!!
Great, I'll look into it. Thanks Roger!
Thanks Dave!
I don't know of any books on the subject but PBL has a very explanatory DVD on the subject. It's pretty DRY but then so is the subject. Worth the money!
http://www.p-b-l.com/
Hope it helps.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
I don't know if you have heard of Howard Zane, but he is a leading expert on brass engines and he is a member of the forums.
http://cs.trains.com/members/howard-zane/default.aspx
Might be worth sending him a PM if he doesn't see your thread.
Does anyone know of any how to books on soldering brass model trains? I know there are countless hobby books out there on painting and airbrushing brass engines and rolling stock, but how about books on soldering them, too? I have 40-plus HO scale brass traction engines and unpowered railcars (Suydam and MTS Imports) that need to be desoldered and resoldered. The factories that manufactured them sometimes don't do a good job with their soldering. I have several brass models with loose parts that need to be re-attached correctly via soldering.
I am looking to gather as much info on the subject as possible. I plan to use resistance soldering to correct the factory mistakes. I hope to get tips on the proper iron/stick, the proper solder, and soldering flux to use. There should also be tips on stripping the brass models of their clear coat and cleaning them to prepare them for desoldering and resoldering. Any such books out there? Perhaps there may not be any hobby books that dedicates all of its pages on the subject of soldering brass models, but I'd be happy with a hobby book that devotes just a few chapters on the subject.