In a group of items I recently received two of these covered hoppers in the Pillsbury and C&NW paint schemes. I was curious how prototypical in detail and such these were as there is something about them I really like. I see there are many of these kits on ebay though does anyone know of a better source as putting together a bulk unit train is something I am now thinking of doing. Any ideas on a cheap source of many.
Walthers has made many different covered hoppers. Hard to tell which ones you have without a picture or a link to the walthers catalog.
I suspect they are the PS2-4427CD three bay hopper. There are better models for a lot more money, but the dimensions are good. IIRC, Walthers has two variations - the original P2K kit, and the original Walthers kit. I think the RTR car in Walthers 'Proto' line is still available.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Walthers offered both versions of the PS2-4427. The earlier version replicated early PS2-4427 with the low side sills, giving it a low-slung, boxcar-like appearance. Life-Like introduced a later version of the same car but with higher side sills as on the PS2-4740 and 4750 cars. The car was part of the Proto2000 line of kits that was sold to Walthers. The original low-sill car was the first PS-2 to combine long trough style loading hatches with center discharge gates which became wildly popular with any railroad that called itself a grain hauler, thus giving us solid trains of such cars we came to know as unit-trains.
jrbernier I suspect they are the PS2-4427CD three bay hopper. There are better models for a lot more money, but the dimensions are good. IIRC, Walthers has two variations - the original P2K kit, and the original Walthers kit. I think the RTR car in Walthers 'Proto' line is still available.
Yes for sure and it the kit the OP is referring to must be the Walthers PS2-4427 "low hip" hopper with the two missing ribs on each side; I recall reading articles in Model Rail Journal which compared the model to the prototype and listed quite a few of the roads for which they were accurate for. I believe I still have those magazines at home.
I bought all 3 of the D&RGW numbers and at the time they came out, they were nice kits that built up into very decent looking cars - it was around 1996/97 that I got them. I also have a few others including Continental and BN and still have them to this day.
Is there a better versions Absolutely and they are 3 times the cost from ExactRail. I have maybe 3 other road names from ER so far and I have debated replacing my old Walthers kit versions but it all comes down to money in the end and at $35-45 these days for most of your better HO freight cars, that limits things quite a bit.
As to the OP, yes, the Walthers red box kit 4427 covered hoppers are fairly accurate but as always, it depends on the road name. Walthers, like other manufacturers, paints many of their freight cars for schemes that never existed on many prototype freight cars so, as always, unless you check before you buy, you could very easily end up with a foobie. The good news about the low hip 4427 Walthers kit covered hoppers is that there were many different paint jobs so chances are much higher you have fairly correct cars in that model.
Here is a link to the Pillsbury version - I'm brain dead this morning and can't remember how to live link it:
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=89445
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
NHTX Walthers offered both versions of the PS2-4427.
But not both as kits AFAIK so the P2k one is out of the running as far as the OP is concerned.
The car was part of the Proto2000 line of kits that was sold to Walthers.
And never sold as kits after Walthers aqcuired the P2K line, only RTR.
I have quite a few of the Life Like (pre-Walthers) cars and they are pretty nice; never bought any since Walthers took over P2k. One I have I built from a LL kit and it went together a little easier than the similar detailed kits from Intermountain that represent a later CF4750 hopper, but all the rest I bought from the RTR line which are Life Like branded - pretty decent cars.
Rio Grande hauled a lot of yellow Cargil hoppers in the 1970's and many of them were the high hip CF4427 hoppers from photo's I've seen. AFAIK, the only ones I've been able to find in HO are the LL models but they appear to match the prototype.
One thing I use the Walther's kits for are as standins for the Bethlehem and FMC versions of the PS 4427 Low Hip cars. I don't believe we will ever see these in model form so I use the Walthers cars for this and the Exactrail cars for the PS 4427's.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Another concern of interest to at least some is the relative fragility of the model if your operating system involves physically removing a car from the layout in a staging yard and placing it in storage. Some of the very nice and accurate cars now available (Tangent, ExactRail, and such) are simply too fragile in detail to be man-handled regularly in this way. The original Walthers kits (with the exception of certain tank car parts) have the virtue of sturdiness!
Dave Nelson
dti406One thing I use the Walther's kits for are as standins for the Bethlehem and FMC versions of the PS 4427 Low Hip cars.
The FMC 4526, like the MP car above, is so superficially similar to the PS 4427 that it's not too difficult to modify a 4427 into a convincing stand-in. Plano has end cages for the FMC cars, but labels them as variations on PS details (I suspect they don't know the difference between the prototypes) http://www.planomodelproducts.com/chopper_scq.html#4427 .
Rob Spangler
I meant the PS-2CD hoppers I know they are fairly old but there is just something I like about them.
trainmaster247 I meant the PS-2CD hoppers I know they are fairly old but there is just something I like about them.
We are talking about the same model - the Walthers PS2CD 4427 covered hopper right?
riogrande5761 trainmaster247 I meant the PS-2CD hoppers I know they are fairly old but there is just something I like about them. We are talking about the same model - the Walthers PS2CD 4427 covered hopper right?
Yes that is the one.
riogrande5761Yes for sure and it the kit the OP is referring to must be the Walthers PS2-4427 "low hip" hopper
I don't think he mentioned "kit" anyplace. And as others have mentioned, Walthers offered at least two different PS2-CD models:
https://www.walthers.com/pullman-standard-ps2-center-discharge-covered-hopper-kit-burlington-northern-green
https://www.walthers.com/proto-2000-ps2-cd-4427-high-side-covered-hopper-ready-to-run-2-pack-continental-grain-6280-6284
The second one is an assembled version of the LifeLike P2K model. I don't think Walthers ever offered this as a kit under the Walthers name.
maxmanI don't think he mentioned "kit" anyplace.
Other than in the title of the thread.
Here's a direct comparison between the Walthers kit (left) and ExactRail RTR version (right) of the early PS4427. The basic Walthers car is essentially accurate, it's just comparatively crude due to the one-piece body casting. The ExactRail car has fine cross sections where appropriate, an etched running board, and more complete detail.
This BN car was also built from a Walthers kit. With decent metal wheelsets and Kadee couplers these cars perform perfectly well, and I can think of worse ways to assemble a unit train. At right is an ACF 4600 from Accurail.
If a big grain train is your goal, note that hopper types would most often vary at least somewhat, so having some different cars would help realism.
This is the late or "high hip" PS 4427 from the Proto 2000 kit, later offered as RTR in the Walthers Proto line. I got this one at a train show for $10. The hopper at left is a PS4750 from Accurail, while at right is another PS 4750 from Intermountain.
Accurail's PS4750 can be had for under $20 as a kit. I added some details to this one to more closely match its UP prototypes. At left is an FMC 4700 from Athearn.
The old McKean/Front Range ACF hoppers are also fairly common at swap meets for reasonable prices. I added some sdeparate grabs and brake piping to mine, plus this one got Kadee trucks because the originals didn't perform too well even with good quality wheelsets. There are plenty of other cost effective ways to build a unit train if you scrounge.
wp8thsub maxman I don't think he mentioned "kit" anyplace. Other than in the title of the thread.
maxman I don't think he mentioned "kit" anyplace.
And in the middle of the post.
Nice hoppers, BTW. And I really like your backdrops.
Gary
garyagarya wrote the following post an hour ago: wp8thsub maxman I don't think he mentioned "kit" anyplace. Other than in the title of the thread. And in the middle of the post.
Well, yes, that's true. I guess I didn't consider that there was that close a resemblance between the P2K kit with a lot of pieces, and the walther's kit which had minimal pieces.
I have bought recently some of these Proto2000 Kits. As I am in the process of building (including a lot of the Plano-details), painting and lettering those I will be running into the problem that the original boxes will not hold these cars anymore for transport.
I have some ideas on the topic (3D printing, cutting foam) but wanted to ask: how did you solve this problem?
PS: English is my third language, so please excuse errors and wrong synthax. :)
CursatorI have bought recently some of these Proto2000 Kits. As I am in the process of building (including a lot of the Plano-details), painting and lettering those I will be running into the problem that the original boxes will not hold these cars anymore for transport.
My rolling stock cycles on and off layout periodically, and generally returns to it's proper box (which is not always the original box, especially if I've altered the car with other details which are fragile or require more room.)
I recently re-built a dozen Bowser two-bay hopper kits to better ressemble some prototypes which were used by my hometown's TH&B Railway...
Here's one still under construction...
...and one painted and lettered...
The kits came in these original boxes...
...but to save shelf-space, I use matte board (available at any art supply store) to make the box taller, and also divided it into two compartments to accommodate two cars....
The paper towelling helps to keep the on-their-wheels cars snug in their compartments, and the extra cardstock on the floor of the box keeps the cars from rolling. The additional height also protects the cars with shaft-mounted brakewheels from damage, as long as the boxes are upright.If the original boxes will not accommodate the built-up car, you can use matteboard to create new boxes better suited to your needs. I used insulators' aluminum tape to add the extended sides and to affix the sides and ends together.
If the cars accidently roll inside the box due to careless handling, the soft foam material cemented to the inside of the boxes' ends will prevent damage to the couplers.To work with matteboard in order to build a new box and lid, use a sharp blade in a utility knife to score the board for creating the sides and ends, and make sure to include tabs on the edges of either the sides, or the ends, in order to make the box and lid sturdy. Bent properly along the scored areas, the box and lid (and the tabs) can be either taped together or held together with a good quality wood glue.
This small box and lid (built for a small MoW car) better illustrates the gluing tabs which hold the boxes together...
Wayne
That looks great! I am far away from a leel like you. I am just building kits :)
My plan so far was actually to keep the original boxes and just manufactur fresh inlets (3D printed or carved by hand, layer after layer and glued together.
Do you transport your cars away from you layout to friends and shows? Is that material sturdy enough for something like this?
I use the Walthers early 4427 CF kits as a standin for the Bethlehem 4526 CF covered hoppers as it is unlikely we will ever see that kit in mass produced plastic. I use the Exactrail cars for prototype 4427 earlies and the Protos and Tangents for the late model.
I have bought a lot of the Proto2000 PS2 4427cuft kits cheap on ebay. The project I am now doing includes the following:
I have now finished the first batch of two cars, the next will be decalling, I alreday got the appropriate Microscale Decalsheet MC-5018, but I will have to do some additional custom decals for these cars and am trying to find appropriate photos to make the Adobe Illustrator files.
As these cars are pretty fragile, I am now experimenting with how to store them safely in the original boxes.