Knowing a bit about train shows, possibly I can pass some information on.....
Off the bat, I love these events....always good deals, meeting fellow train nuts, see what is new, sometimes decent food, usually several fine operating pikes, and many times very good clinics...all with the price of a reasonable admission. Now that many train shops are closing down, the shows are really the only serious way newbies can learn of the hobby and see models and layouts first hand. Most shows have folks who can offer assistance and help guide new folks.
Try to find shows that offer free parking, clinics, consignment sales (white elephant) areas, and several operating layouts. Most shows do not charge for children, some offer free admission for second day (if a two day show), and some do not charge for spouses (spice?)
I ran a rather large show for over 30 years (can't mention name as moderator will lock this thread) and have observed much. Some shows even offer free appraisal service which I have found to be quite helpful. Check out advertising as many shows just rely on free listings and don't draw much of a crowd or selection of vendors. Try to find shows that cater to individuals just thinning out or cleaning their closets of excess choo choos and stuff. Shows with just dealers offering many times the same items can be somewhat boring although pricing then becomes competitive in the buyer's favor.
Many if not most of the firehouse, Moose lodge, and high school gym shows cater to the hi-rail (three rail) folks. If you are a scale modeler, these shows could be a waste of time.....but it is simple to check out.
If you want to sell......be wary of published attendance figures as many show promoters do exaggerate...or just down right lie. This has always been a pet peeve of mine. Many times vendors are duped into attending based on these figures, and sales often are not what is expected. Here is a simple formula that has proven to be quite accurate: TS x SH x 150 = AA. Translated means ticket sellers x show hours x 150 = actual attendance. I'll explain further as there are exceptions. The most any single ticket seller can sell is 350 tickets per hour. Since a good show has peak times in the morning, I have found using an average of 150 tickets per seller per hour works most of the time. Exceptions would be mega shows where folks come in until just before an hour prior to closing...then you can up the 150 to 225. A really lousy show with an opening line of 50-75 and shuts down around 1PM, then the 150 would be more like 125 etc. Some shows have laid claim to incredible numberss...like 40,000+ in an 85,000sq. ft venue with parking for only 1500 cars. I can not laugh, because I feel for the many vendors who have been lied to. "Buyer beware"
Our show is/was held in a 166,000 sq. ft. building. Our record attendance was the year 2000 where at 1PM on Saturday there were just around 5000 attendees in the building, and it was shoulder to shoulder. Many times at shows folks would congradulate me mid morning as to having 10,000 folks already in the show. When I 'd reply with....."Thanks, but right now there are 1500 folks in the hall", they look at me as though I was nuts. I guess when told so many times that 500 people are 5000 people, I can understand.
Enjoy the show season as there is much being offered.
HZ
In this part of Ontario, (east of Toronto) all the bigger train shows are in high school gyms, with smaller ones being in town sommunity centres or curling rinks (before the ice goes in).
There is more scale model trains than 3 rail at all of them. Two have model boats, one with a pond, the other sometimes has radio control airplanes. (static display)
All have free parking.
A well attended show in this area has 1200 attendees. The professional vendors know the size of the crowd, and some shows have waiting lists of vendors as the space is limited.
These are all club sponsored/run shows, not professional.
Dave
I've have been going to train shows for at least 30 years now, or a bit longer. I started going to the big GATS shows in major cities such as Houston TX, Liousville KY, Indianapolis IN, Syracuse / Rochester / Buffalo NY etc. starting around 1985. I started going to Timonium show in 2009 and enjoyed treasure hunting there nearly 4 times a year since.
We've discussed train shows ad nauseum here so I'm not sure what I can add anymore. Some are very good, some are duds. Sometimes you spend too much time trying to fight your way past the strollers etc. to actually see whats on the tables.
Train shows are worth going to cause you never know, you might find items you've been looking for; and for those lamenting the demise of kits such as Athearn blue box, MDC, and all the rest, go to a good sized train show and you'll probably have more then you'll ever have time to build. Thats definitley been true at Timonium - more kits than Han Solo could possibly imagine, and he can imagine quite a bit!!!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Howard,Being a season train show attendee and have sold items at some shows I will add the smaller shows may be far better then the larger shows as far as deals.
The must go to shows for me is Berea,Dalton and Bucyrus.The best of the three is Berea because of the size-four medium size fairground buildings full of dealers.
To my mind its not the size of the show but,the quality of the dealers that deals in quality merchandise instead of being "The junk man cometh" and every show has at least one or two.
I been told by some dealers that the difference between a good day and a bad is the difference between my prices and my competitors prices. I helped set up the Bucyrus show when I was a member of the club and got jaw jacking with some of the dealers.
I've also seen trading and buying between the dealers but,I notice these models went into the dealers totes to fill a customer's request or for their own use.
These dealers are great guys and very friendly and helpful..
And thanks for the insight.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I'm looking forward to Trainfest in November. Beyond that, I think I've had my fill of beanie baby and Thomas-laden junk shows. I'm not even referring to just train shows here, the hamfests and computer shows are Thomas and Beanie baby laden too.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
BRAKIE Howard,Being a season train show attendee and have sold items at some shows I will add the smaller shows may be far better then the larger shows as far as deals.
I am not aware of many small shows in my area but I have found the odd one and maybe there were some deals yes, but nothing I could use. It's probably because of my preferences vs. where I live. You don't see much 1970's or 1980's western stuff at small shows in northern Virginia. Timonium is very hit or miss on the good deals so try to hit most of the T shows. Usually the deals are awesome when there is a collection being sold off due someone passing away or getting out of the hobby or scale. You do see those and when they were there, if you had major cash you could set yourself up with a sizable haul for cheap.
Other shows can be duds, sometimes believe it or not, I've left empty handed.
Yes, IMO the quality of the dealers has fallen off at Timonium during the past year or two. I've been going there for the past 7 years and can see the difference. As far as junk goes, ever large show I go to has numerous tables of junk that you could land fill half of it and still have too much. But I guess they help keep the show alive by paying table fees.
There is plenty I walk quickly past to get to the better stuff. My habit is to make a quick pass through the show to survey the kingdom and make mental notes and later come back and pick up a few things after seeing what is there. I do that because I don't bring much cash, so I want to be choosey.
I been told by some dealers that the difference between a good day and a bad is the difference between my prices and my competitors prices.
Yes. What I don't get are why some expect to sell stuff when their prices are much higher than competitors. Those dealers seem like every show would be a "bad day". Don't they grow weary of that? People aren't daft. One dealer that shows up at area shows here has items with so much shelve wear from not being sold due to high prices, he will likely have much of that stock when he passes away or retires. Their choice of course but it seems like some people are their own worst enemies.
First off, look to have fun. If you add up the cost of tickets, parking fees, gas, plus the cost of your items purchased, I'd wager it costs more to buy stuff at train shows than online. But I've never kept that close of account, because I go to shows to have fun and look at trains.
As far as deals....
Look for the guy who isn't a dealer but a hobbyist looking to sell surplus accumulations. Last year I bought unboxed boxcars, tankcars, and hoppers from P2K, Atlas, Intermountain, and Exactrail...all in great shape and slightly weathered tastefully.... for $10 each.
Vendors like that don't show up at every show, but I go to every show just for fun, so I'm around when those types of vendors rent tables.
Edit: To be clear, I usually buy something at every show, mulitple items usually. IMO, anything worth having requires maintenance, and maintenance cost money. I view buying a few things as putting maintenance into the shows and the hobby.
- Douglas
riogrande5761I am not aware of many small shows in my area but I have found the odd one and maybe there were some deals yes, but nothing I could use. It's probably because of my preferences vs. where I live. You don't see much 1970's or 1980's western stuff at small shows in northern Virginia. Timonium is very hit or miss on the good deals so try to hit most of the T shows. Usually the deals are awesome when there is a collection being sold off due someone passing away or getting out of the hobby or scale. You do see those and when they were there, if you had major cash you could set yourself up with a sizable haul for cheap.
At shows I usually buy freight cars,railroad videos,maybe a new hat and odds and ends like detail parts,odd road name decals and other whimsy-I call it whimsy because I usually buy that kind of stuff on a whim.
Some times I feel like a buzzard when I pick over some poor departed soul's life long collection but,I remember I'm helping the widow depose of items she or the family doesn't want.I've always been like that even at model train estate auctions.
At shows I make a slow walk around and glance over the tables including the junkman's table then it's time to enjoy a cup of coffee and a slice of apple pie and decide what I want after that I make another round and start buying the wanted items..
Why look at the junkman's table? You never know what you may find beside the usual junk.
No offense Howard but I stopped going to many train shows because there is no accommodation for people with disabilitie There is no place to sit and rest since I cannot walk long distances and many of the shows are either too crowded or inaccessible to wheelchairs.
Like it or not many MRs have disabilities and why go to all the hassle of a train show when I can order what I need online.
One exception is the national train show that I attended in Cleveland and expect to attend in Orlando.
Joe Staten Island West
Joe,
No offense taken....I agree that many shows are not user friendly towards handicapped. At the Maryland show, we always had handicapped parking (though seemingly never enough) across from hall, and all was on one level. Every show had a minimum of 100 chairs for attendee seating in addition to ample food service chairs. From day one, we insisted on 10' minimum aisles which are still maintained by new owners.
We once rented wheel chairs or arranged for them, but source dried up and most handicapped had their own chairs. Still I agree more could have been done......possibly shuttle service from lot after handicapped spaces were taken. The handicapped parking often was abused and we on several occassions called local good guys to ticket the abusers, but we did not make many friends by doing this....but still I'd do it again.
Keep the faith....there are shows that do care about you.
I have been to a lot of train shows over the years. I must say that I never fail to have a good time. That's what the hobby is supposed to be about. In the last few years I have been given an awful lot of rolling stock, most of it train set stuff. Why do you see this stuff way over priced? This year I will be selling at the local train show for the first time. I'am not out to make money, but to promote the hobby. We are aging and need new blood. We need to get kids involved, with little expence. So I will be selling cars for less than a dollar, and giving some away. Hopefully I can get some kids hooked on this great hobby. Maybe some of the other vendors at train shows will follow my lead and give the folks a break. I just hope to get my money back for renting the table space. But for me it's all about seeing some kid come away with a new passion and a big smile!
Phil, CEO, Eastern Sierra Pacific Railroad. We know where you are going, before you do!
Howard ZaneFrom day one, we insisted on 10' minimum aisles which are still maintained by new owners.
Cool and that's a excellent idea for many reasons but, I gotta ask..Did that end getting plowed into by baby buggies? Every show I have attended to date I've been hit at least once.
Howard Zane Joe, No offense taken....I agree that many shows are not user friendly towards handicapped. At the Maryland show, we always had handicapped parking (though seemingly never enough) across from hall, and all was on one level. Every show had a minimum of 100 chairs for attendee seating in addition to ample food service chairs. From day one, we insisted on 10' minimum aisles which are still maintained by new owners. We once rented wheel chairs or arranged for them, but source dried up and most handicapped had their own chairs. Still I agree more could have been done......possibly shuttle service from lot after handicapped spaces were taken. The handicapped parking often was abused and we on several occassions called local good guys to ticket the abusers, but we did not make many friends by doing this....but still I'd do it again. Keep the faith....there are shows that do care about you. HZ
Howard:
Thanks for your response:
Truth be told my wife got tired of pushing me around in my transport chair and I got tired of seeing the same vendors all the time at the Greenberg, shows which sell more junk than useful stuff to me.
When I have gone to a train only show (Not a Toy and Train Show) I have found it interesting but the wife is bored as she prefers the toys. So with Physical Therapy I expect to be able to go solo to train shows soon.
I do not need to purchase much of anything but I do enjoy the layouts and sometimes the clinics.
I would not avoid the smaller shows that is mostly 3 rail but the ones in this area also have quite a few tables with HO and N scale.
I have picked up some great buys at these shows. Mostly older stuff like, Rivarossi, life like and many others. If your looking for new stuff then these shows are not for you.
The shows are always fun. Somebody's old junker may provide just the part you need to resurrect a model that's long out of production. You may find a bargain. You may find something that you want, that hasn't been in production since before Howard started running shows! You may find a model, or a DVD, or a tool, or a book that you never knew existed. You're likely to run into old friends, and possibly make new ones. You may learn something new at one of the historical society tables, or at a clinic, and you may get a chance to learn about ---- or see --- a brand new release. There aren't really many downsides when it comes to the bigger and better shows, especially if the operators are experienced and conscientious.
Tom
Perhaps if it is "season" and we are supposed to be getting enthused about them, then maybe the website listings of vendors for some of the shows should be updated to show what is upcoming rather than showing who was there in July.
(Hey, I like train shows and have said so here several times. I like seeing what I'm buying and I like looking at things from all the other scales, but a "stale" website is not a good thing.)
Bill
Discontinued items from Athearn and Walthers like locomotives or cabooses, maybe even a Bachmann 4-4-0 (new version) and 3 Con-cor old time passenger cars to go with my Roundhouse excursion steam train.
11 months out of the year I'm at the Du Page County Fairgrounds time permitting.
I take my 6 yr old with me and usually meet up with on of my friends who lives out that way as well.
It takes us an hour or so to get there and hitting McDonalds afterwards is becoming a tradition. We have a good time, get to catch up, the boy is always amazed by stuff and more often than not I find a deal on something that makes the trip worth while.
Its all about the fun and we have a good time, finding an elusive item or stumbling over a killer deal is icing on the cake.
DAVID FORTNEY If your looking for new stuff then these shows are not for you.
The smaller one yes. At some larger shows, they actually release new items at the shows. I usually attend 2 such shows (the National Train Show, and the Amherst Railway Society Show) a year.
Massachusetts state law (think or maybe its Springfield's own laws) require 12' spacing on through aisles. I rarely have trouble getting around. I agree there are not a lot of places to sit at most shows. NTS usually does a pretty good job about that.
Even big shows don't seem to have alot of what was "just released" I have found. Most vendors have stuff new yes, but not fresh off the Hanjin container, which is stuck right now anyway while they wring their hands over the bankruptcy.
As far as what to look for, I usually have a list of a few items I'd like to find I bring with me on a post-it note.
DAVID FORTNEYIf your looking for new stuff then these shows are not for you. Dave
Dave,Don't bet the farm you will lose. I know of three small shows frequent by the same dealer that has newly release models.I understand he owns a B&M shop as well.
My 6 yr old is all excited after I asked him "Where do we go on Sundays and usually meet my friend?"
He got "train show" on the second try or so.
It's fun!